World's best ref retires

[Margin__Walker]

To be fair, it says in the article that the TMO called that one, not Barnes, though it could be argued that Barnes should have asked how many phases were between the knock on and the try. Having said that, I think referees have enough on their plate without being let down by their colleagues, the TMO should have checked that before alerting the referee.

This is a bugbear of mine, TMOs getting involved in infringements many phases after the event, I've been looking for what the actual protocol is, so it's good to see that WR have come out and said two phases

Mine too. We need to get things right when it comes to serious foul play and scoring moves, but when we get to pulling up knock ons at the base or forward passes a minute or two before a try, it gets a bit silly.

Even foul play should have to be yellow card worth imo if you're going a long way back. There was a try disallowed in the Stormers LI game last season where Will Joseph gave a Stormers player a small push off the ball when contesting a high ball. Both players on the ground and not dangerous, but definitely a pen if the ref had seen it. He didn't and the game player on for a few minutes over 10-15 phases and LI score, only for it to be brought back for the original push by the TMO because it was 'foul play'

Agree though that in this case it should be on the TMO rather than the ref to be responsible for checking phases if he's intervening like this.

So you agree the push was a foul and if the try had happened after just two phases, you’d be happy with the TMO intervention?

Yeah, sure. A few phases is reasonable.

[Gumboot]

I don't get why the TMO was even concerned with a knock-on once it had gone 2+ phases beyond the infringement. He seemed to be familiar with the minutiae of every other law in the book, but not this one. No wonder Wayne Barnes looked pissed off. Imagine dedicating your career to correctly interpreting the laws of the game, and being fucking good at it, only to have your swansong overshadowed by a clueless jobsworth.

[Sandstorm]

I don't get why the TMO was even concerned with a knock-on once it had gone 2+ phases beyond the infringement. He seemed to be familiar with the minutiae of every other law in the book, but not this one. No wonder Wayne Barnes looked pissed off. Imagine dedicating your career to correctly interpreting the laws of the game, and being fucking good at it, only to have your swansong overshadowed by a clueless jobsworth.

TMO has one job: check 4K videos for infringements. He did that. What's your issue?

[inactionman]

brief review of his book:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... down-rugby

There are plenty of amusing rugby anecdotes in Wayne Barnes’s highly readable new autobiography Throwing the Book. Not least the time, early in his top-level refereeing career, when he had to sin-bin England’s World Cup-winning captain Martin Johnson for an illegal smash on London Irish’s Delon Armitage. Johnno, having regained his feet, fixed the youthful official with his best death stare and said: “That’s the only fucking decision you’ve got right so far.”

That's the Jonno (Johnno?) we all know and love.

[Line6 HXFX]

Couldn't stand Wayne Barnes, he would randomnly pick an obscure "law of the day" out of the law book, the night before and hit everyone completely unsuspectingly over the head with it, ruining matches.

He only did this to appear Knowledgeable.

"Oh aren't I clever...I am realiy going to town and reffing something no f'ker else has during the whole tournament, whilst missing a whole host of shit, quick someone give me a OBE".

Rugby is resenta'tainment afterall.so that would probably make him the world's best ref I guess.

[Grandpa]

Couldn't stand Wayne Barnes, he would randomnly pick an obscure "law of the day" out of the law book, the night before and hit everyone completely unsuspectingly over the head with it, ruining matches.

He only did this to appear Knowledgeable.

"Oh aren't I clever...I am realiy going to town and reffing something no f'ker else has during the whole tournament, whilst missing a whole host of shit, quick someone give me a OBE".

Rugby is resenta'tainment afterall.so that would probably make him the world's best ref I guess.

What unique law did he pull out for the quarterfinal and final? I can't remember anything unusual?

[Lobby]

Great ref... as an All Black supporter I only remember one poor game (the first one) from him. Since then... along with Nigel Owens, the best ref I have seen. It's disgraceful the way NZ and SA fans (and coaches) have treated him. Same goes for the abuse of other refs involved in big games... we're gonna need AI refs soon as no human will want to do it...

I assume you've seen this story about Wayne and his mate Nigel

[Guy Smiley]

TMO has one job: check 4K videos for infringements. He did that. What's your issue?

You’re usually smarter than this so I gather you’ve just given in to the Saffa impulse and gone full warthog.

Never go full warthog, Sandy. Do that and we’ll have to call you Oom.

[Grandpa]

Great ref... as an All Black supporter I only remember one poor game (the first one) from him. Since then... along with Nigel Owens, the best ref I have seen. It's disgraceful the way NZ and SA fans (and coaches) have treated him. Same goes for the abuse of other refs involved in big games... we're gonna need AI refs soon as no human will want to do it...

I assume you've seen this story about Wayne and his mate Nigel

Not seen that... Dunno about being a barrister.. he could make a mint on the after dinner circuit... though he should have named a French ref really...

[Kiwias]

I like this bloke's approach to commentary

[OomStruisbaai]

TMO has one job: check 4K videos for infringements. He did that. What's your issue?

You’re usually smarter than this so I gather you’ve just given in to the Saffa impulse and gone full warthog.

Never go full warthog, Sandy. Do that and we’ll have to call you Oom.

me and Sandy ain't fighters. Never.

[OomStruisbaai]

I like this bloke's approach to commentary

Cheers Boet, excellent video

[Gumboot]

I don't get why the TMO was even concerned with a knock-on once it had gone 2+ phases beyond the infringement. He seemed to be familiar with the minutiae of every other law in the book, but not this one. No wonder Wayne Barnes looked pissed off. Imagine dedicating your career to correctly interpreting the laws of the game, and being fucking good at it, only to have your swansong overshadowed by a clueless jobsworth.

TMO has one job: check 4K videos for infringements. He did that. What's your issue?

How is that not obvious? The world's best ref deserved a better send-off to his illustrious career.

If the result was reversed and Rassie was the losing coach, don't you think he might have an issue?

[Dan54]

I really like Barnes as a ref, thought he was good, and like all refs (and human beings) he made mistakes. And the TMO actually proved that in the final, when he called back the Nugget try, Barnes had already said it wasn't a knock on, didn't miss it just said it wasn't a knock on. So TMO said hey you were wrong to say that, so even the TMO was intent on ruining Barnes' last game.
As I said I thought top ref, like all refs/humans he made mistakes, and I had no problem with any of them. I would rather we had refs making mistakes than TMO jumping in actually. It is what has put me off cricket, it's all becoming esports these days!

[Sandstorm]

I really like Barnes as a ref, thought he was good, and like all refs (and human beings) he made mistakes. And the TMO actually proved that in the final, when he called back the Nugget try, Barnes had already said it wasn't a knock on, didn't miss it just said it wasn't a knock on. So TMO said hey you were wrong to say that, so even the TMO was intent on ruining Barnes' last game.
As I said I thought top ref, like all refs/humans he made mistakes, and I had no problem with any of them. I would rather we had refs making mistakes than TMO jumping in actually. It is what has put me off cricket, it's all becoming esports these days!

Barnes was wrong. Imagine if his last game was tainted by an error like that where he awards a try after a clear knock on !! Awful way to end a career.

[Grandpa]

I really like Barnes as a ref, thought he was good, and like all refs (and human beings) he made mistakes. And the TMO actually proved that in the final, when he called back the Nugget try, Barnes had already said it wasn't a knock on, didn't miss it just said it wasn't a knock on. So TMO said hey you were wrong to say that, so even the TMO was intent on ruining Barnes' last game.
As I said I thought top ref, like all refs/humans he made mistakes, and I had no problem with any of them. I would rather we had refs making mistakes than TMO jumping in actually. It is what has put me off cricket, it's all becoming esports these days!

Barnes was wrong. Imagine if his last game was tainted by an error like that where he awards a try after a clear knock on !! Awful way to end a career.

Though to be fair... Barnes saw it in 3D... from a few yards away... we.. and the TMO have only seen it in 2D.... so we could all be wrong... and Barnes right... an optical illusion in 2D.. but clear as day in 3D...

[Slick]

It's funny, we (I), tend to think that this moaning about refs is a fairly new thing but I've been re reading a book called Band of Brothers about the French team of the 80's (a must read for anyone with a passing interest) and was struck last night by the section on a lunch/interview with Blanco. He is still very bitter about the reffing of their Grand Slam games against Wales (83?) and Scotland (84) where they feel they were very hard done by. There is also reference to some of the French newspaper headlines which were scathing of the refs.

I guess it's this idiotic social media and the idiots it attracts that has massively amplified it and made it such an issue now. That isn't letting Rassie and various pitch invaders off the hook, it's all part of it though I guess.

The depressing bit is that now the cat is out the bag, there is no way of putting it back. So depressing.

[Sandstorm]

I really like Barnes as a ref, thought he was good, and like all refs (and human beings) he made mistakes. And the TMO actually proved that in the final, when he called back the Nugget try, Barnes had already said it wasn't a knock on, didn't miss it just said it wasn't a knock on. So TMO said hey you were wrong to say that, so even the TMO was intent on ruining Barnes' last game.
As I said I thought top ref, like all refs/humans he made mistakes, and I had no problem with any of them. I would rather we had refs making mistakes than TMO jumping in actually. It is what has put me off cricket, it's all becoming esports these days!

Barnes was wrong. Imagine if his last game was tainted by an error like that where he awards a try after a clear knock on !! Awful way to end a career.

Though to be fair... Barnes saw it in 3D... from a few yards away... we.. and the TMO have only seen it in 2D.... so we could all be wrong... and Barnes right... an optical illusion in 2D.. but clear as day in 3D...

The replay clearly shows Wayne admiring Faf's fringe and not looking at the ball. Well-trained and sharp TMO saved his blushes.

[Sandstorm]

It's funny, we (I), tend to think that this moaning about refs is a fairly new thing but I've been re reading a book called Band of Brothers about the French team of the 80's (a must read for anyone with a passing interest) and was struck last night by the section on a lunch/interview with Blanco. He is still very bitter about the reffing of their Grand Slam games against Wales (83?) and Scotland (84) where they feel they were very hard done by. There is also reference to some of the French newspaper headlines which were scathing of the refs.

I guess it's this idiotic social media and the idiots it attracts that has massively amplified it and made it such an issue now. That isn't letting Rassie and various pitch invaders off the hook, it's all part of it though I guess.

The depressing bit is that now the cat is out the bag, there is no way of putting it back. So depressing.

Mate, the 1995 Bok semi-final against France and the Final against the ABs had both refs criticized from Paris to Wellington and back again! It's definitely not new.

[inactionman]

It's funny, we (I), tend to think that this moaning about refs is a fairly new thing but I've been re reading a book called Band of Brothers about the French team of the 80's (a must read for anyone with a passing interest) and was struck last night by the section on a lunch/interview with Blanco. He is still very bitter about the reffing of their Grand Slam games against Wales (83?) and Scotland (84) where they feel they were very hard done by. There is also reference to some of the French newspaper headlines which were scathing of the refs.

I guess it's this idiotic social media and the idiots it attracts that has massively amplified it and made it such an issue now. That isn't letting Rassie and various pitch invaders off the hook, it's all part of it though I guess.

The depressing bit is that now the cat is out the bag, there is no way of putting it back. So depressing.

Yep, I'd think it's not really a new thing, it's just social media gives a loud and echoing chamber for grievances to be aired.

(I'd hope death threats aren't something Blanco ever got stuck into though).

A silly idea but for those who play the game at least:
I used to play relatively decent level basketball as a schoolboy and we were forever slagging the refs (generally PE teachers) for missing fouls. Our coach got us to take it in turns reffing a game and it nearly caused a riot, we were fecking awful. It did give us an idea of how hard it is and a bit more sympathy for the refs, particularly on how the players try to to con the refs.

And perhaps also ideas for how to cheat without drawing fouls, but that's perhaps a separate discussion.

I'm wondering if it might be worth actually training up all players as refs (at least to a limited extent), just to get them to realise that mistakes are inadvertent and it is not an easy job. There would be fringe benefits of having players in a ref pathway as well, in terms of reffing numbers.

[duke]

It's funny, we (I), tend to think that this moaning about refs is a fairly new thing but I've been re reading a book called Band of Brothers about the French team of the 80's (a must read for anyone with a passing interest) and was struck last night by the section on a lunch/interview with Blanco. He is still very bitter about the reffing of their Grand Slam games against Wales (83?) and Scotland (84) where they feel they were very hard done by. There is also reference to some of the French newspaper headlines which were scathing of the refs.

I guess it's this idiotic social media and the idiots it attracts that has massively amplified it and made it such an issue now. That isn't letting Rassie and various pitch invaders off the hook, it's all part of it though I guess.

The depressing bit is that now the cat is out the bag, there is no way of putting it back. So depressing.

Yep, I'd think it's not really a new thing, it's just social media gives a loud and echoing chamber for grievances to be aired.

(I'd hope death threats aren't something Blanco ever got stuck into though).

A silly idea but for those who play the game at least:
I used to play relatively decent level basketball as a schoolboy and we were forever slagging the refs (generally PE teachers) for missing fouls. Our coach got us to take it in turns reffing a game and it nearly caused a riot, we were fecking awful. It did give us an idea of how hard it is and a bit more sympathy for coaches. and perhaps also ideas for how to cheat without drawing fouls.
Might be worth actually training up all players as refs, just to get them to realise that mistakes are inadvertent and it is not an easy job.

Trouble is you'll get the next Karl Dickson......

[inactionman]

It's funny, we (I), tend to think that this moaning about refs is a fairly new thing but I've been re reading a book called Band of Brothers about the French team of the 80's (a must read for anyone with a passing interest) and was struck last night by the section on a lunch/interview with Blanco. He is still very bitter about the reffing of their Grand Slam games against Wales (83?) and Scotland (84) where they feel they were very hard done by. There is also reference to some of the French newspaper headlines which were scathing of the refs.

I guess it's this idiotic social media and the idiots it attracts that has massively amplified it and made it such an issue now. That isn't letting Rassie and various pitch invaders off the hook, it's all part of it though I guess.

The depressing bit is that now the cat is out the bag, there is no way of putting it back. So depressing.

Yep, I'd think it's not really a new thing, it's just social media gives a loud and echoing chamber for grievances to be aired.

(I'd hope death threats aren't something Blanco ever got stuck into though).

A silly idea but for those who play the game at least:
I used to play relatively decent level basketball as a schoolboy and we were forever slagging the refs (generally PE teachers) for missing fouls. Our coach got us to take it in turns reffing a game and it nearly caused a riot, we were fecking awful. It did give us an idea of how hard it is and a bit more sympathy for coaches. and perhaps also ideas for how to cheat without drawing fouls.
Might be worth actually training up all players as refs, just to get them to realise that mistakes are inadvertent and it is not an easy job.

Trouble is you'll get the next Karl Dickson......

I attribute that more to the ongoing and incredibly irksome problem we have in the game called 'Scrum Halves''

[Lobby]

It's funny, we (I), tend to think that this moaning about refs is a fairly new thing but I've been re reading a book called Band of Brothers about the French team of the 80's (a must read for anyone with a passing interest) and was struck last night by the section on a lunch/interview with Blanco. He is still very bitter about the reffing of their Grand Slam games against Wales (83?) and Scotland (84) where they feel they were very hard done by. There is also reference to some of the French newspaper headlines which were scathing of the refs.

I guess it's this idiotic social media and the idiots it attracts that has massively amplified it and made it such an issue now. That isn't letting Rassie and various pitch invaders off the hook, it's all part of it though I guess.

The depressing bit is that now the cat is out the bag, there is no way of putting it back. So depressing.

Mate, the 1995 Bok semi-final against France and the Final against the ABs had both refs criticized from Paris to Wellington and back again! It's definitely not new.

The South African referee of the final match of the Lions tour in 1974 made sure that the Lions didn't win and didn't secure a series whitewash in part because he was worried about the repercussions for him if they did. He disallowed a perfectly good try by Fergus Slattery in the final minutes that would have won the match, and then blew the final whistle four minutes early with the Lions two metres from the South African try line. When asked about the decision afterwards, the referee was reported to have said: "Look boys, I have to live here".

[Guy Smiley]

It's funny, we (I), tend to think that this moaning about refs is a fairly new thing but I've been re reading a book called Band of Brothers about the French team of the 80's (a must read for anyone with a passing interest) and was struck last night by the section on a lunch/interview with Blanco. He is still very bitter about the reffing of their Grand Slam games against Wales (83?) and Scotland (84) where they feel they were very hard done by. There is also reference to some of the French newspaper headlines which were scathing of the refs.

I guess it's this idiotic social media and the idiots it attracts that has massively amplified it and made it such an issue now. That isn't letting Rassie and various pitch invaders off the hook, it's all part of it though I guess.

The depressing bit is that now the cat is out the bag, there is no way of putting it back. So depressing.

Yep, I'd think it's not really a new thing, it's just social media gives a loud and echoing chamber for grievances to be aired.

(I'd hope death threats aren't something Blanco ever got stuck into though).

A silly idea but for those who play the game at least:
I used to play relatively decent level basketball as a schoolboy and we were forever slagging the refs (generally PE teachers) for missing fouls. Our coach got us to take it in turns reffing a game and it nearly caused a riot, we were fecking awful. It did give us an idea of how hard it is and a bit more sympathy for the refs, particularly on how the players try to to con the refs.

And perhaps also ideas for how to cheat without drawing fouls, but that's perhaps a separate discussion.

I'm wondering if it might be worth actually training up all players as refs (at least to a limited extent), just to get them to realise that mistakes are inadvertent and it is not an easy job. There would be fringe benefits of having players in a ref pathway as well, in terms of reffing numbers.

Nic Berry.

[Gumboot]

Mate, the 1995 Bok semi-final against France and the Final against the ABs had both refs criticized from Paris to Wellington and back again! It's definitely not new.

The SF? Sure. But I don't recall Kiwis bagging Ed Morrison over the Final at all.

Of course, Mains bitched and moaned ad infinitum with his pathetic, non-existent waitress excuse for his failure.

But unless you can cite some credible examples of Kiwis abusing the ref, I call bullshit.