NPR

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 2:19 pm NATO obviously spanks Russia in a long war. In a short war? I’m not convinced European armies have the ammunition and equipment to hold their ground. And we don’t know what China might do that may distract the Americans. Our current defence posture seems like a massive gamble

Dogbert wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 7:56 pm Sine we are in the hiatus of no rugby till the 6N

Now that the Tories ( the party that prides itself on Defence, although I suspect Labour would be no better ) have gutted the Army

General Sir Patrick Sanders - the outgoing Chief of the General Staff (CGS) has suggested that Britain should train a "citizen army" ready to fight a war on to stave off the Russian Hordes

I'm in on 2 provisos

1. I get my SLR back - none of your SA80 nonsense

2. Limitless supplies of Menu A ration packs - Bacon Grill / Oatmeal Blocks / Chicken Curry , and Spangles and a brew from a Hexi cooker

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68086188

Who else is in, and what are your demands

inactionman wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:04 pm

Dogbert wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:53 am

inactionman wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:31 am

It's all a rhetorical question, ultimately.

I just can't see a land war in NATO that doesn't see Russia thoroughly spanked conventionally, despite all the doom-mongering. Therefore, I can't really see a land war with NATO. Putin fails utterly in any situation if he resorts to nukes in any meaningful capacity. Therefore I can't really see how it goes nuclear, as I refuse to believe any NATO power will fire nukes first.

Even he'd feel the consequences of nuclear war - at fucking last, you might add - as it wouldn't just be a case of sending a bunch of serfs to die in a foreign land to enrich him and his cronies, this is Moscow being razed.

I expect the usual sad set of proxy wars (Syria, Vietnam etc). I'd wonder about localised use of nukes, just short of invoking doomsday responses, in these proxy wars. Even that is pretty far-fetched, but Putin has effectively used radioactive and biochemical weapons in the UK already.

Imagine if Russia destabilised one of the Baltic states,, Estonia for example, and then mounted an invasion similar to Crimea.

Imagine too , that this happens during Trumps second term.
Now Estonia is a member of NATO

Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.

Do you trust Trump to carry through on the obligation, and if not where does that leave the rest of the NATO members
( For that matter if Trump does get re-elected, and cuts of the military aid to Ukraine - what future for Ukraine )

How trump mucks up NATO is a whole topic all of itself.

You would hope that NATO would recognise that biting off pieces of NATO piecemeal is just a tactic.

Openside wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:34 pm

inactionman wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:04 pm

Dogbert wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:53 am

Imagine if Russia destabilised one of the Baltic states,, Estonia for example, and then mounted an invasion similar to Crimea.

Imagine too , that this happens during Trumps second term.
Now Estonia is a member of NATO

Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.

Do you trust Trump to carry through on the obligation, and if not where does that leave the rest of the NATO members
( For that matter if Trump does get re-elected, and cuts of the military aid to Ukraine - what future for Ukraine )

How trump mucks up NATO is a whole topic all of itself.

You would hope that NATO would recognise that biting off pieces of NATO piecemeal is just a tactic.

I genuinely believe if Trump tries to take US out of NATO there could be some form of coup.

Dogbert wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:54 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:34 pm

inactionman wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:04 pm

How trump mucks up NATO is a whole topic all of itself.

You would hope that NATO would recognise that biting off pieces of NATO piecemeal is just a tactic.

I genuinely believe if Trump tries to take US out of NATO there could be some form of coup.

He doesn't even need to formally take the US out of Europe

To take the example of Estonia as far as Trump is concerned that would be “A quarrel in a faraway country, between people of whom we know nothing” - I seriously suspect that he would not follow through on Article 5 - why risk American boys in a European conflict.

If you take away the US block in NATO , along with the US defence Industrial Base , what does that leave you with.

If there was ever a coup to remove Trump in office ( no matter under what premise ) I believe that you would be looking at serious civil disorder on a magnitude that would not have seen internally in the US since the Civil war

Enzedder wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:48 am Who do you think you are kidding Mr Putin...

Enzedder wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:32 pm Can I have your porn collections when the balloon goes up please?

Enzedder wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:48 am Who do you think you are kidding Mr Putin...

troglodiet wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:47 pm I'm not exactly a fan of war to be honest, and never learned how to use weapons. I'll therefore be useless in any army, unless they want to use me as a human shield (that is not an offer to be one).

Simply put me in some huge underground shelter with enough supplies to last me the duration of the war.

I volunteer to look after everybody's pets. No cats allowed.

My wife unknowingly volunteers to be the human shield. So there's the European army all safe.



PS. Ignore the no cats part. There will certainly be enough Python and Boa species which needs to be fed.

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:50 pm

troglodiet wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:47 pm I'm not exactly a fan of war to be honest, and never learned how to use weapons. I'll therefore be useless in any army, unless they want to use me as a human shield (that is not an offer to be one).

Simply put me in some huge underground shelter with enough supplies to last me the duration of the war.

I volunteer to look after everybody's pets. No cats allowed.

My wife unknowingly volunteers to be the human shield. So there's the European army all safe.



PS. Ignore the no cats part. There will certainly be enough Python and Boa species which needs to be fed.

I think we do need to stick you and your 'entourage' in an underground bunker.

Dogbert wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 7:56 pm Sine we are in the hiatus of no rugby till the 6N

Now that the Tories ( the party that prides itself on Defence, although I suspect Labour would be no better ) have gutted the Army

General Sir Patrick Sanders - the outgoing Chief of the General Staff (CGS) has suggested that Britain should train a "citizen army" ready to fight a war on to stave off the Russian Hordes

I'm in on 2 provisos

1. I get my SLR back - none of your SA80 nonsense

2. Limitless supplies of Menu A ration packs - Bacon Grill / Oatmeal Blocks / Chicken Curry , and Spangles and a brew from a Hexi cooker

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68086188

Who else is in, and what are your demands