NPR

RIP

Mr Bungle wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:51 pm RIP

Nice

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:24 pmRIP

Fuck off with you RIP mate, you were taking the piss a few posts back.

Blackmac wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:20 am

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:24 pmRIP

Fuck off with you RIP mate, you were taking the piss a few posts back.

Touchy

RIP.

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:08 am

Blackmac wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:20 am

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:24 pmRIP

Fuck off with you RIP mate, you were taking the piss a few posts back.

Touchy

Nope, just recognise a bit of a dickhead response for what it is.

Hugo wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:28 pmSuch a shame a genuine good guy is killed because of the anti police climate that irresponsible idiots have whipped up.

I must have missed something. How is the "anti police climate" responsible for this man's death at the hands of a handcuffed suspect in a police station?

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:35 pm

Hugo wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:28 pmSuch a shame a genuine good guy is killed because of the anti police climate that irresponsible idiots have whipped up.

I must have missed something. How is the "anti police climate" responsible for this man's death at the hands of a handcuffed suspect in a police station?

I was about to post that as well. Tbh I don't even think there is an anti police climate at all in the UK tbh.

Yeah, the anti police thing annoys me.

It is a classic example of where US stuff influences us disproportionately.

RIP mate - your bad luck has made me take fewer things for granted since I heard.

Just to clarify - the anti police thing that annoys me is that there isn’t a general anti police thing in the Uk

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:35 pm

Hugo wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:28 pmSuch a shame a genuine good guy is killed because of the anti police climate that irresponsible idiots have whipped up.

I must have missed something. How is the "anti police climate" responsible for this man's death at the hands of a handcuffed suspect in a police station?

The suspect was Non-white and therefore the arresting officer was reluctant to search him properly?

This was nearly everyone’s assumption on Saturday anyway....

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:46 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:35 pm

Hugo wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:28 pmSuch a shame a genuine good guy is killed because of the anti police climate that irresponsible idiots have whipped up.

I must have missed something. How is the "anti police climate" responsible for this man's death at the hands of a handcuffed suspect in a police station?

The suspect was Non-white and therefore the arresting officer was reluctant to search him properly?

This was nearly everyone’s assumption on Saturday anyway....

Do you reckon our police pay any attention/are affected by the George Floyd stuff?

The cops I know haven’t changed a single thing.

This ain’t the 51st state yet.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:50 pm That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

It's absolutely the narrative Prior will latch on to to push more fascist type controls out.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:50 pm That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

Tbf, I seem to remember a few suggestions from senior police officers that front line police might be acting less rigorously in their approach because of stuff.

ASMO wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:50 pm That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

It's absolutely the narrative Prior will latch on to to push more fascist type controls out.

Priti, I’m thinking?

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:50 pm That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

Yeah, this guy was totally rational.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

Its also possible this is what happened. DM readers are sometimes right too. This could easily be the first USA style mistake by a copper after BLM has taken hold here.

Let’s wait and see.

Dude, he had been handcuffed and was in a police station - if the cops were worried about "being nice to minorities" they wouldn't have gone that far to begin with!

How about instead of spreading bullshit ideas based on zero evidence, the "wait and see" also involves not making up stories entirely just to suit some weird agenda.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:59 pm Dude, he had been handcuffed and was in a police station - if the cops were worried about "being nice to minorities" they wouldn't have gone that far to begin with!

How about instead of spreading bullshit ideas based on zero evidence, the "wait and see" also involves not making up stories entirely just to suit some weird agenda.

I strangely find myself agreeing with JMK.

Must admit first time I saw the surname I wondered if he had family connections to Ratana in Whanganui.

Sure enough, he does.

RIP.

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:08 am

Blackmac wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:20 am

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:24 pmRIP

Fuck off with you RIP mate, you were taking the piss a few posts back.

Touchy

but fair

C69 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:59 pm Dude, he had been handcuffed and was in a police station - if the cops were worried about "being nice to minorities" they wouldn't have gone that far to begin with!

How about instead of spreading bullshit ideas based on zero evidence, the "wait and see" also involves not making up stories entirely just to suit some weird agenda.

I strangely find myself agreeing with JMK.

Same.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:50 pm That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

From the guardian.

Actually it does appear the police hand cuff and take to station instead of a thorough on street search, to avoid accusations of being over intrusive.

Presumably certain people have been quick to jump on their phones recording arrests when prolonged searches and detainment take place on the streets.


Police call for tougher stop and search rules after officer’s death in Croydon

One officer said Ratana’s death was “heartbreaking” for those who had made the arrest and conducted the original body search. “The problem is, if someone has got a weapon – say it’s a small handgun, just a normal type – if you stuff it down the back of your backside, right down in your pants, then generally speaking a cursory search on the streets is not going to pick that up,” he said. “The police get accused of being over-intrusive on the street, so they handcuff people to make them safe, bring them back to custody where a more detailed search can be carried out. That process probably now needs to change.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... or-arrests

To be clear: he was an autistic guy who had been arrested for possession of class B drugs and ammunition(!). Presumably they'd already searched him to find the drugs and ammo. A decent pat-down for a guy being arrested for possession of drugs and ammo is not the sort of thing that gets people riled when it's filmed by passers-by. People getting arrested for, say, filming cops? Yeah, sure.

The anonymous cop calling for stronger stop and search laws - when the existing ones are already good enough - is not exactly an unbiased source here. Our stop and search don't even require you to be arrested.

Here's what someone willing to put his name to it actually said:

Sir Peter Fahy, the former chief constable of Greater Manchester, told the BBC the circumstances surrounding the death appeared to be “incredibly unusual”.

“There are procedures for searching prisoners before they are taken to police stations in vans or in cars; they’re searched again when they get to police stations and there are additional procedures because of screening for Covid,” Fahy said.

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:17 pm To be clear: he was an autistic guy who had been arrested for possession of class B drugs and ammunition(!). Presumably they'd already searched him to find the drugs and ammo. A decent pat-down for a guy being arrested for possession of drugs and ammo is not the sort of thing that gets people riled when it's filmed by passers-by. People getting arrested for, say, filming cops? Yeah, sure.

The anonymous cop calling for stronger stop and search laws - when the existing ones are already good enough - is not exactly an unbiased source here. Our stop and search don't even require you to be arrested.

Here's what someone willing to put his name to it actually said:

Sir Peter Fahy, the former chief constable of Greater Manchester, told the BBC the circumstances surrounding the death appeared to be “incredibly unusual”.

“There are procedures for searching prisoners before they are taken to police stations in vans or in cars; they’re searched again when they get to police stations and there are additional procedures because of screening for Covid,” Fahy said.

Any sort of searches and pat downs can rile some people we see reports and social media posts all the time. We currently have no idea on how the search procedures went wrong and why though, so it’s pointless speculating.

Random1 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:12 pm Just to clarify - the anti police thing that annoys me is that there isn’t a general anti police thing in the Uk

There is a youtube video of a sky news report from a few months back that tends to suggest that stop & search on London streets can be highly problematic nowadays.

An officer shares how oftentimes when police conduct a s & s they are overwhelmed with passersby coming up to the situation, getting involved, asking 20 questions and advocating quite vociferously on behalf of the person being searched, claiming racism and so on.

Whether this type of carry on reduces the effectiveness of the searches I'm not sure but it quite obviously makes the police work less efficient and the officer shared that answering every Tom, Dick and Harrys question about what is going on is exhausting.

That's true, but it's not a recent thing. I remember people making a point of videoing stop and searches a decade ago. Here's something from 8 years ago: https://netpol.org/2012/07/27/a-rough-g ... op-search/

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:27 pm That's true, but it's not a recent thing. I remember people making a point of videoing stop and searches a decade ago. Here's something from 8 years ago: https://netpol.org/2012/07/27/a-rough-g ... op-search/

Here’s a video demonstrating police were under the same levels of on-site public scrutiny 8 years ago they are today??

Ymx wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:50 pm That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

From the guardian.

Actually it does appear the police hand cuff and take to station instead of a thorough on street search, to avoid accusations of being over intrusive.

Presumably certain people have been quick to jump on their phones recording arrests when prolonged searches and detainment take place on the streets.


Police call for tougher stop and search rules after officer’s death in Croydon

One officer said Ratana’s death was “heartbreaking” for those who had made the arrest and conducted the original body search. “The problem is, if someone has got a weapon – say it’s a small handgun, just a normal type – if you stuff it down the back of your backside, right down in your pants, then generally speaking a cursory search on the streets is not going to pick that up,” he said. “The police get accused of being over-intrusive on the street, so they handcuff people to make them safe, bring them back to custody where a more detailed search can be carried out. That process probably now needs to change.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... or-arrests

Have to agree with JMK here. The laws are already there. If you are professional enough you should easily be able to carry out an effective non intrusive search for something like a gun or knife. It's not exactly needle in a haystack stuff, however as I said on the PR thread, youngs cops are notoriously shite at it, due to a number of factors.

Ymx wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:39 am

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:27 pm That's true, but it's not a recent thing. I remember people making a point of videoing stop and searches a decade ago. Here's something from 8 years ago: https://netpol.org/2012/07/27/a-rough-g ... op-search/

Here’s a video demonstrating police were under the same levels of on-site public scrutiny 8 years ago they are today??

?

Filming and getting involved in stop and search has been a thing for a long time. It's nothing new. The pushback against stop and search is a long running one. That is all.

I'm surprised a metal detector wand isn't part of standard police kit. You don't even need to touch somebody to use it.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:00 am I'm surprised a metal detector wand isn't part of standard police kit. You don't even need to touch somebody to use it.

You would still have to search them.

Kawazaki wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:00 am I'm surprised a metal detector wand isn't part of standard police kit. You don't even need to touch somebody to use it.

It’s been reported that the police were about to use a metal detector to search the suspect when he opened fire.

Blackmac wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:46 am

Ymx wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:11 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:50 pm That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Sandstorm. Being handcuffed and marched to the police station is more of an imposition than being searched.

There's currently zero evidence that "anti police feeling" is in any way responsible for this man's death. Going "I bet he wasn't searched properly because he's not white" on to "the policeman is dead because of anti police sentiment" is the sort of nonsense narrative you see in the comments section of the daily express.

From the guardian.

Actually it does appear the police hand cuff and take to station instead of a thorough on street search, to avoid accusations of being over intrusive.

Presumably certain people have been quick to jump on their phones recording arrests when prolonged searches and detainment take place on the streets.


Police call for tougher stop and search rules after officer’s death in Croydon

One officer said Ratana’s death was “heartbreaking” for those who had made the arrest and conducted the original body search. “The problem is, if someone has got a weapon – say it’s a small handgun, just a normal type – if you stuff it down the back of your backside, right down in your pants, then generally speaking a cursory search on the streets is not going to pick that up,” he said. “The police get accused of being over-intrusive on the street, so they handcuff people to make them safe, bring them back to custody where a more detailed search can be carried out. That process probably now needs to change.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... or-arrests

Have to agree with JMK here. The laws are already there. If you are professional enough you should easily be able to carry out an effective non intrusive search for something like a gun or knife. It's not exactly needle in a haystack stuff, however as I said on the PR thread, youngs cops are notoriously shite at it, due to a number of factors.

The laws are there. But the reference is about the process, not the laws, which clearly has been adjusted for recent events.

No, it clearly hasn't. Whatever outrage there is about stop and search has been there for years.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:10 pm No, it clearly hasn't. Whatever outrage there is about stop and search has been there for years.

The level of outrage over stop and search has been the same for years, clearly.

Ymx wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:29 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:10 pm No, it clearly hasn't. Whatever outrage there is about stop and search has been there for years.

The level of outrage over stop and search has been the same for years, clearly.

I don't think you have much idea about the level of outrage now or what it was ten years ago. There were literal fucking riots.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/dec ... and-search

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan ... ism-police

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releas ... -suspicion


Stop spoofing.