The Rugby Championship - W2 - 15 July : NZ v SA / Aus v Rg

[Sards]

Yeah, not sure Sards. Your lot will be busy here ripping in to each other with your partisan views on players.

Not that we’d be much different. Perhaps a few less death threats.

You will find that on the Springboks going forward thread. I think my fellow Saffers are embarrassed after all the chest beating last week. As I am.
Anyway you lot were top class

You should be Sards. All things considered, you should constantly be embarrassed with everything you post.

Quite right. Whatever.

I was about to pull the biggest " I told you so ". But really don't care

[Ymx]

So you form an opinion on approximately 60 million people on one little snippet that you dug out from who knows where?
Perhaps you have more in common with the twins than we do.

I dug it out from “who knows where”. Are search engines a little too complex for the half braiied Saffer brain?

It’s also slightly more amusing given your avatar.

Is this even a caricature?

[Sards]

Hamish Bidwel reckons a lot of last weeks Springbok players are well past their sell by date...
I know how disappointing Eben waa for me for the Sharks. 2 matches and that was that. He is never available for matches. Look I know there was family trauma and I just cannot understand for the life of me why they played him. Of course he is going to be down. I was very disappointed when he said he would play. Go grieve man.

[Sandstorm]

Hamish Bidwel reckons a lot of last weeks Springbok players are well past their sell by date...
I know how disappointing Eben waa for me for the Sharks. 2 matches and that was that. He is never available for matches. Look I know there was family trauma and I just cannot understand for the life of me why they played him. Of course he is going to be down. I was very disappointed when he said he would play. Go grieve man.

He needs game time after months injured. His father would have said the same. He’s a competitor.

[Sards]

Hamish Bidwel reckons a lot of last weeks Springbok players are well past their sell by date...
I know how disappointing Eben waa for me for the Sharks. 2 matches and that was that. He is never available for matches. Look I know there was family trauma and I just cannot understand for the life of me why they played him. Of course he is going to be down. I was very disappointed when he said he would play. Go grieve man.

He needs game time after months injured. His father would have said the same. He’s a competitor.

Eben had lots of energy when he did play for the Sharks. And looked sharp. He looked way off this past weekend. And you really can understand.
Vok man. We are human beings. Not machines


“I’m not sure South Africa – or at least Saturday night’s iteration – are that good a yardstick,” he writes. “That was an old Springboks side. A team of Rugby World Cup winners nearer the end of their careers than the start"

Anyway that's what he said

[boere wors]

Hamish Bidwel reckons a lot of last weeks Springbok players are well past their sell by date...
I know how disappointing Eben waa for me for the Sharks. 2 matches and that was that. He is never available for matches. Look I know there was family trauma and I just cannot understand for the life of me why they played him. Of course he is going to be down. I was very disappointed when he said he would play. Go grieve man.

He needs game time after months injured. His father would have said the same. He’s a competitor.

Eben had lots of energy when he did play for the Sharks. And looked sharp. He looked way off this past weekend. And you really can understand.
Vok man. We are human beings. Not machines


“I’m not sure South Africa – or at least Saturday night’s iteration – are that good a yardstick,” he writes. “That was an old Springboks side. A team of Rugby World Cup winners nearer the end of their careers than the start"

Anyway that's what he said

I am saying this for 3 years... we are missing to rejuvinate the squad. All for consistency, which we didnt achieve. We won't go anywhere with the same guys as 2019. There is really only one single position our coaches invested in, which is wiese at no 8. And failed.

[OomStruisbaai]

So you form an opinion on approximately 60 million people on one little snippet that you dug out from who knows where?
Perhaps you have more in common with the twins than we do.

I dug it out from “who knows where”. Are search engines a little too complex for the half braiied Saffer brain?

It’s also slightly more amusing given your avatar.

Is this even a caricature?

that's a low blow. Some rivalry spite.

[Chilli]

Sards and Wors,
Name your Bok squad that is capable of winning the RWC, without these over the hill players.

[Sandstorm]

Sards and Wors,
Name your Bok squad that is capable of winning the RWC, without these over the hill players.

Yes please

[boere wors]

You guys are missing the point. There are no other players that are capable of doing so, as we have failed to develop any over the last 4 years. We will be left with the same old guys, which are 4 years older and have achieved everything there is with a RWC win and a Lions series. Look at other sports, soccer for example. Those teams usually go out in the group stages. Look at the boks in 2011. Rassie himself as the assistant coach then has stated that that team was a bit too old by 2011. I fear it will be the same again with the guys now.

[Sards]

You guys are missing the point. There are no other players that are capable of doing so, as we have failed to develop any over the last 4 years. We will be left with the same old guys, which are 4 years older and have achieved everything there is with a RWC win and a Lions series. Look at other sports, soccer for example. Those teams usually go out in the group stages. Look at the boks in 2011. Rassie himself as the assistant coach then has stated that that team was a bit too old by 2011. I fear it will be the same again with the guys now.

Agree completely. They really have stuck to their guns. Almost hoping that their development players would suddenly come right. And the older players will find some energy. I liked the squad that played against Aus. It showed a lot of energy and passion. They really could have built on that.

Player for player the ABs were just better on the day. We also need to accept that. That's where a better gameplan and selections may have made a difference. I would definitely have started with Manie. His defense would definitely not have been much worse than we saw. Sort out your pivot and give him more gametime and he will produce. Vok around with part timers and you see the results. I think Manie could very much have made a huge difference. Start there.

We lost anyway. Even with resting our players and getting them there early to prevent jet lag.

[Chilli]

You guys are missing the point. There are no other players that are capable of doing so, as we have failed to develop any over the last 4 years. We will be left with the same old guys, which are 4 years older and have achieved everything there is with a RWC win and a Lions series. Look at other sports, soccer for example. Those teams usually go out in the group stages. Look at the boks in 2011. Rassie himself as the assistant coach then has stated that that team was a bit too old by 2011. I fear it will be the same again with the guys now.

It's not the Bok coaches job to develop players.
It's the job of the franchise and provincial coaches to develop players. And it's the players job to make themselves noticeable to the Bok coach.

Take the current squad
The props pick themselves
Did either of you complain when Bongi was picked as a hooker? That leaves Dweba, who isn't the player he was a few seasons back. There is an argument that Akker or Grobler should be in his place.
Which locks are better that the current squad members? Rasnaber have brought Orrie into the squad. Not my favorite lock, but who outside of the squad has been better.
In the loose forwards they have brought Du Preez, Roos, Wiese and that old bloke in. Who else is there? Louw? He us bit of a Pierre Spies. The other Du Preez?

5 scummies is too many. Junkies should be nowhere ear the squad.
The flyhalf cupboard is pretty empty. I'm no fan of Willemse and would have him at 10.
In the center's I wouldn't have Kriel, but who else is there?
On the wings, the best players are there. Mapimpi is totally out of form.
Willie is class.

The All Blacks were better than us on the day, as they normally are.

[assfly]

We clearly have our problems, but age is not one of them.

[average joe]

So you form an opinion on approximately 60 million people on one little snippet that you dug out from who knows where?
Perhaps you have more in common with the twins than we do.

I dug it out from “who knows where”. Are search engines a little too complex for the half braiied Saffer brain?

It’s also slightly more amusing given your avatar.

Is this even a caricature?

It's there to remind me of your ignorance.

[Guy Smiley]

We lost anyway. Even with resting our players and getting them there early to prevent jet lag.

The All Blacks were better than us on the day, as they normally are.

We can debate that whole strategy of splitting the squad and travelling early...

but there's another aspect to the performance that's being missed a little. After the first 30 minutes or so when the ABs had been on fire, they lost their way a little and settled into a more conservative game. Then your guys started to exert their own influence on the game and momentum completely shifted, swing the Boks' way... and the Boks were dominant for the middle hour or so of the game. To come back from so far behind is no mean feat and the power your guys had over the breakdown was pretty convincing... the ABs started to look pretty rattled. Of course some individual brilliance sealed the deal and that early lead proved enough... this time.

The thing I look at it here is, the next time we play will be at the RWC when both sides have had the same travel and build up issues. Barring injury or some sort of brainfart suspension, both sides will be able to name their best teams... and from what I saw the other night, the Springboks have a lot more to show whereas we saw the ABs pretty much at their best. You guys have a bigger upside to look forward to... and I think you're on track to go deep into the RWC. How we go next time out against each other is impossible to predict but I think it'll be a much closer result and there's no way I see it automatically going the ABs way.

[average joe]

"They did not develop any players."
Rather, "they did not develop the players I wanted them to."

Start a rookie at 10.
Parachute in some players that we like.
We would have won.

Delusional

[LoveOfTheGame]

You guys are missing the point. There are no other players that are capable of doing so, as we have failed to develop any over the last 4 years. We will be left with the same old guys, which are 4 years older and have achieved everything there is with a RWC win and a Lions series. Look at other sports, soccer for example. Those teams usually go out in the group stages. Look at the boks in 2011. Rassie himself as the assistant coach then has stated that that team was a bit too old by 2011. I fear it will be the same again with the guys now.

Are you a pessimistic person by nature wors? You often post nonsense like this.

[boere wors]

"They did not develop any players."
Rather, "they did not develop the players I wanted them to."

Start a rookie at 10.
Parachute in some players that we like.
We would have won.

Delusional

Why do you put words in my mouth? "Players I wanted" or " we would have won". I did not say that. Read it again and try to understand what I am saying.

[boere wors]

We clearly have our problems, but age is not one of them.

"The old guys" are rather meant to be the players that are around for 6 years now and have won absolut everything, a arWC and a Lions series. What do you think, are they as hungry and passionate to win a RWC as they were 4 years ago? Now that they have won everything, that they are Star players earning big bucks around the globe? I doubt it. And that is what i mean with rejuvination, "younger", hungry players.

[Sandstorm]

We clearly have our problems, but age is not one of them.

"The old guys" are rather meant to be the players that are around for 6 years now and have won absolut everything, a arWC and a Lions series. What do you think, are they as hungry and passionate to win a RWC as they were 4 years ago? Now that they have won everything, that they are Star players earning big bucks around the globe? I doubt it. And that is what i mean with rejuvination, "younger", hungry players.

I’ve seen these young players in the URC and not many impress me. Especially in the forwards.
Going for a brand new squad in a RWC year is madness anyway.

I grant you that we have a lot of players left from 2019, however Covid made the next 3 years very unsettled and finding and developing newbies has been tough. Evan Roos, Williams and Libbok look the best and they ARE getting game time anyway.

The current crop of Boks are hardly the geriatric Lions that got spanked in NZ in 2005.

[LoveOfTheGame]

We clearly have our problems, but age is not one of them.

"The old guys" are rather meant to be the players that are around for 6 years now and have won absolut everything, a arWC and a Lions series. What do you think, are they as hungry and passionate to win a RWC as they were 4 years ago? Now that they have won everything, that they are Star players earning big bucks around the globe? I doubt it. And that is what i mean with rejuvination, "younger", hungry players.

You are delusional if you think they are not motivated to win back-to-back world cups. And you are doing them great disservice..

[boere wors]

You guys are missing the point. There are no other players that are capable of doing so, as we have failed to develop any over the last 4 years. We will be left with the same old guys, which are 4 years older and have achieved everything there is with a RWC win and a Lions series. Look at other sports, soccer for example. Those teams usually go out in the group stages. Look at the boks in 2011. Rassie himself as the assistant coach then has stated that that team was a bit too old by 2011. I fear it will be the same again with the guys now.

It's not the Bok coaches job to develop players.
It's the job of the franchise and provincial coaches to develop players. And it's the players job to make themselves noticeable to the Bok coach.

Take the current squad
The props pick themselves
Did either of you complain when Bongi was picked as a hooker? That leaves Dweba, who isn't the player he was a few seasons back. There is an argument that Akker or Grobler should be in his place.
Which locks are better that the current squad members? Rasnaber have brought Orrie into the squad. Not my favorite lock, but who outside of the squad has been better.
In the loose forwards they have brought Du Preez, Roos, Wiese and that old bloke in. Who else is there? Louw? He us bit of a Pierre Spies. The other Du Preez?

5 scummies is too many. Junkies should be nowhere ear the squad.
The flyhalf cupboard is pretty empty. I'm no fan of Willemse and would have him at 10.
In the center's I wouldn't have Kriel, but who else is there?
On the wings, the best players are there. Mapimpi is totally out of form.
Willie is class.

The All Blacks were better than us on the day, as they normally are.

What? It is exactly the national coach's job to idetify the talent and develop players at test level. It is what Rassie did when he came in in 2018. He picked the talent he identified as most suitable for his cause and made those players world cup winners and world class test players.

[average joe]

Like Sards, you keep repeating that there's no development yet there's so many new faces in the squad. Only deduction I can make is that you just don't like the new faces and that the team would have been better if they picked the ones you like.

ie Jasper Wiese: no one liked him then everyone liked him. One bad game and now he's persona non grata again?

The only valid complaint you have is at 10. How would the coaches have known that Junkies were going to fuck his way out of the team though?

[average joe]

Enough, tell us who are these great talented players you would have the coaches develop. Give us names, you can even form a WhatsApp group with Sards and discus it between the two of you but give us names, we want names.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Enough, tell us who are these great talented players you would have the coaches develop. Give us names, you can even form a WhatsApp group with Sards and discus it between the two of you but give us names, we want names.

I do find a little funny and ironic that his avatar is Frans Steyn. Who, again ironically, won two RWC and BIL's and had a long, successful career. The epitome of a player who won everything, yet still had the drive and hunger to achieve more.

[average joe]

Enough, tell us who are these great talented players you would have the coaches develop. Give us names, you can even form a WhatsApp group with Sards and discus it between the two of you but give us names, we want names.

I do find a little funny and ironic that his avatar is Frans Steyn. Who, again ironically, won two RWC and BIL's and had a long, successful career. The epitome of a player who won everything, yet still had the drive and hunger to achieve more.

Ja, if Frans decided to push for a third, I would have agreed that it's a bit too much though.

Bar Vermeulen and Fourie the squad still has a lot of miles left on them. They're a young but experienced squad. The right formula to take back-to-back WC's. They must just get their shit sorted and a loss now helps them identify the shit that needs sorting.

[boere wors]

Enough, tell us who are these great talented players you would have the coaches develop. Give us names, you can even form a WhatsApp group with Sards and discus it between the two of you but give us names, we want names.

I do find a little funny and ironic that his avatar is Frans Steyn. Who, again ironically, won two RWC and BIL's and had a long, successful career. The epitome of a player who won everything, yet still had the drive and hunger to achieve more.

Ja, if Frans decided to push for a third, I would have agreed that it's a bit too much though.

Bar Vermeulen and Fourie the squad still has a lot of miles left on them. They're a young but experienced squad. The right formula to take back-to-back WC's. They must just get their shit sorted and a loss now helps them identify the shit that needs sorting.

Frans would have been guaranteed a bench place in the match day 23 at the RWC if he wasnt out injured now. Do you get it now what "their shit" is?? Still not obvious enough?!

[assfly]

"The old guys" are rather meant to be the players that are around for 6 years now and have won absolut everything, a arWC and a Lions series. What do you think, are they as hungry and passionate to win a RWC as they were 4 years ago? Now that they have won everything, that they are Star players earning big bucks around the globe? I doubt it. And that is what i mean with rejuvination, "younger", hungry players.

I don't know if I agree with that.

Look at the All Blacks of 201, they had already won it in 2011 but were a much better team with many of the same players.

I think for the more senior players it's about leaving your mark and legacy. If we win it, then we will think of the class of 2019-2023 to be the best to ever play for the Boks.

[Sandstorm]

Where's Ox so we can bring 40 year old rookie rookie Ruaaaaan Pienaar into the discussion? He had a great Currie Cup.

[average joe]

I do find a little funny and ironic that his avatar is Frans Steyn. Who, again ironically, won two RWC and BIL's and had a long, successful career. The epitome of a player who won everything, yet still had the drive and hunger to achieve more.

Ja, if Frans decided to push for a third, I would have agreed that it's a bit too much though.

Bar Vermeulen and Fourie the squad still has a lot of miles left on them. They're a young but experienced squad. The right formula to take back-to-back WC's. They must just get their shit sorted and a loss now helps them identify the shit that needs sorting.

Frans would have been guaranteed a bench place in the match day 23 at the RWC if he wasnt out injured now. Do you get it now what "their shit" is?? Still not obvious enough?!

1. You don't know that.
2. Give us names.

[boere wors]

"The old guys" are rather meant to be the players that are around for 6 years now and have won absolut everything, a arWC and a Lions series. What do you think, are they as hungry and passionate to win a RWC as they were 4 years ago? Now that they have won everything, that they are Star players earning big bucks around the globe? I doubt it. And that is what i mean with rejuvination, "younger", hungry players.

I don't know if I agree with that.

Look at the All Blacks of 201, they had already won it in 2011 but were a much better team with many of the same players.

I think for the more senior players it's about leaving your mark and legacy. If we win it, then we will think of the class of 2019-2023 to be the best to ever play for the Boks.

Glad you brought the 2015 ABs up, as they are a good example of what i mean. They kept the core of their 2011 winning side. Yet they were keen to develop 10 or so new players for the match day 23 over the course of 4 years to rejuvinate the "old" ones with. What are we doing? For now, it looks like that our coaches first choice 23 are exactly the same guys that played the 2019 final minus the retirees. While we have all seen against Australia, that we might benefit from bringing in some fresh guys. And I dont want to go into discussion about which player exactly that might be, as it doesnt matter. Keep a core of players, doesnt matter who, and being in some fresh guys around them.

[average joe]

1. Australia is wit honne kak at the moment. Not the bar you want to measure performance against. I bet if you swapped the two teams you would have had more or less the same results.
2. Give us names.

[Ymx]

Must be nice knowing that after smashing the boks , the Kiwis have this thread all to themselves

Yeah, not sure Sards. Your lot will be busy here ripping in to each other with your partisan views on players.

Not that we’d be much different. Perhaps a few less death threats.

You will find that on the Springboks going forward thread. I think my fellow Saffers are embarrassed after all the chest beating last week. As I am.
Anyway you lot were top class

You were saying ??

[Sandstorm]

1. Australia is wit honne kak at the moment. Not the bar you want to measure performance against. I bet if you swapped the two teams you would have had more or less the same results.
2. Give us names.

Yup, ball is on your court now Wors. Names.

[OomStruisbaai]

Dan du Plessis forJessie Kriel

[average joe]

Dan du Plessis forJessie Kriel

Thats a good one. Did Kriel even play?

[OomStruisbaai]

We lost anyway. Even with resting our players and getting them there early to prevent jet lag.

The All Blacks were better than us on the day, as they normally are.

We can debate that whole strategy of splitting the squad and travelling early...

but there's another aspect to the performance that's being missed a little. After the first 30 minutes or so when the ABs had been on fire, they lost their way a little and settled into a more conservative game. Then your guys started to exert their own influence on the game and momentum completely shifted, swing the Boks' way... and the Boks were dominant for the middle hour or so of the game. To come back from so far behind is no mean feat and the power your guys had over the breakdown was pretty convincing... the ABs started to look pretty rattled. Of course some individual brilliance sealed the deal and that early lead proved enough... this time.

The thing I look at it here is, the next time we play will be at the RWC when both sides have had the same travel and build up issues. Barring injury or some sort of brainfart suspension, both sides will be able to name their best teams... and from what I saw the other night, the Springboks have a lot more to show whereas we saw the ABs pretty much at their best. You guys have a bigger upside to look forward to... and I think you're on track to go deep into the RWC. How we go next time out against each other is impossible to predict but I think it'll be a much closer result and there's no way I see it automatically going the ABs way.

Guy I like your thinking.

How many of the matchday All Blacks played in the Soup final.?

[Sandstorm]

Dan du Plessis forJessie Kriel

Du Preez Brothers? All 3 of them?

[OomStruisbaai]

Dan du Plessis forJessie Kriel

Thats a good one. Did Kriel even play?

He is in the squad. Dan Doep can play 12 and 13. He is a performer for the Stormers all season. Specially on defense and attack.

[OomStruisbaai]

Dan du Plessis forJessie Kriel

Du Preez Brothers? All 3 of them?

Nope Michael son.