NPR

2nd Test;

Starting XV: Steward, Nowell, Porter, Farrell, Freeman, Smith, van Poortvliet; Genge, George, Stuart, Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, M Vunipola, Heyes, Chessum, Ludlam, Willis, Care, Arundell.


Marchant dropped altogether. Debuts for Porter and Freeman. JVP to start over Care. 6/2 bench with Willis.

Jones with the dreaded RWC caveat. Performance, not result...

“We have decided to make changes in our back line, they were tough calls but we feel they will strengthen the team. There are opportunities to attack against Australia which we can take.

“We have had solid preparation this week and looking forward to an important game in Brisbane.

“This game is the perfect practice for the World Cup and our focus is putting on our best performance.”

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:20 am 2nd Test;

Starting XV: Steward, Nowell, Porter, Farrell, Freeman, Smith, van Poortvliet; Genge, George, Stuart, Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, M Vunipola, Heyes, Chessum, Ludlam, Willis, Care, Arundell.


Marchant dropped altogether. Debuts for Porter and Freeman. JVP to start over Care. 6/2 bench with Willis.

Trench warfare up front!!!!

Reckon Eddie has dropped Marchant purely to piss off JM.

Oxbow wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:42 am Reckon Eddie has dropped Marchant purely to piss off JM.

Was just about to suggest something like that. Bit left field (and harsh on Marchant), but let's see what Porter offers I guess.

SaintK wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:40 am

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:20 am 2nd Test;

Starting XV: Steward, Nowell, Porter, Farrell, Freeman, Smith, van Poortvliet; Genge, George, Stuart, Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, M Vunipola, Heyes, Chessum, Ludlam, Willis, Care, Arundell.


Marchant dropped altogether. Debuts for Porter and Freeman. JVP to start over Care. 6/2 bench with Willis.

Trench warfare up front!!!!

Six players who can play at blindside by my reckoning, plus four who can play at lock. But only two backs. That's worked well before.

Arundel lights it up, but presumably his kick chase isn't up to it.

Can't see what Marchant has done to get dropped.

Sloooow back row, expect Hooper to have fun.

Porter to come off injured in the first five minutes and Eddie gets his dream of Freeman at 13.

As pleased as I am for some of the younger players who've more than earnt chances

Not sure about a start for Porter with this particular backline configuration ahead of Marchant. Delighted to see Freeman get his shot, but with Marchant gone it means we still only have one outside back with notable gas.

Brining in Underhill doesn't do anything about our back row being second to the breakdown.

Smith gets yet another scrum half and yet another centre combination to work with.

Clearly, though, with a 6 - 2 bench split (always tempting fate...) we're not going to be trying to run the ball much in attack. Kick chase and forward attrition will be the game plan.

https://www.ruck.co.uk/joe-marler-makes ... wb8-pQ_GWQ

Should make it interesting at least, especially if the game is the expected bore fest.

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:47 am

Oxbow wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:42 am Reckon Eddie has dropped Marchant purely to piss off JM.

Was just about to suggest something like that. Bit left field (and harsh on Marchant), but let's see what Porter offers I guess.

We've picked a hard running 12 because we have picked a 12 who is being asked to not play like a 12 so that our 10 can play as some sort of floating 13 so it makes perfect sense to drop our 13


Also Care was pretty good so that's an odd shout but whatevs, I like JvP

If we think JvP has a chance of being in our world cup side he needs some starts ASAP so don't mind that call. We know what Care can do after all. Still cannot fathom a strategy in the backline.

England have 9 matches left including Saturday until the RWC starts.

I'll wager that means that Ben Youngs will have 7 more caps before the RWC starts regardless of how well he's playing or anyone else is playing.

Yup. I'm fine with Randall missing out as he's not taken his chances and looks shot right now. JvP and Quirke are good alternatives. Quirke's injury was very poorly timed.

Care as a super sub also suits him tbf - and if he starts he should be hooked after an hour regardless, his fitness for a full 80 is suspect

Meanwhile, Straya have lost Kellaway and Ikitau from last week's starting team through post-match injury. Hunter Paisama comes in at 13, Tom Wright at 14 and Jordan Petaia at 15.

MungoMan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:20 amHunter Paisama comes in at 13, Tom Wright at 14 and Jordan Petaia at 15.

Let me guess;

Hunter Paisama usually plays centre.
Tom Wright usually plays wing.
Jordan Petaia usually plays fullback.

Where's the logic in that?

Not at all a fan of the hair pulling etc. That said, I can't be the only person reading this thread thinking 'toughen up a bit mate. You're playing test rugby in the second row'

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:29 am

MungoMan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:20 amHunter Paisama comes in at 13, Tom Wright at 14 and Jordan Petaia at 15.

Let me guess;

Hunter Paisama usually plays centre.
Tom Wright usually plays wing.
Jordan Petaia usually plays fullback.

Where's the logic in that?

Yep. We are mire in the past, here.

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:59 pm Not at all a fan of the hair pulling etc. That said, I can't be the only person reading this thread thinking 'toughen up a bit mate. You're playing test rugby in the second row'

I suspect he was saying exactly what he was told to by his representation and seeing as he had 66% of his ban knocked off (6 weeks mitigated down to 2) rather than the usual 50% for no record, admitting guilt, managing not to swear at the panel etc. I guess it did the trick.

Equally, you don't see many displays like Hill's these days, trying to ruffle your opponent with all the cameras around tends to be a bit more subtle. Might genuinely be a bit of a shock to the guy.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:49 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:59 pm Not at all a fan of the hair pulling etc. That said, I can't be the only person reading this thread thinking 'toughen up a bit mate. You're playing test rugby in the second row'

I suspect he was saying exactly what he was told to by his representation and seeing as he had 66% of his ban knocked off (6 weeks mitigated down to 2) rather than the usual 50% for no record, admitting guilt, managing not to swear at the panel etc. I guess it did the trick.

Equally, you don't see many displays like Hill's these days, trying to ruffle your opponent with all the cameras around tends to be a bit more subtle. Might genuinely be a bit of a shock to the guy.

I think it was definitely a shock to a modern rugby player.

Back in the day, (I know, yawn etc) but back in the day if you did one of the things Hill did, you'd be bleeding profusely pretty soon afterwards, as would many others as it would have provoked an all out brawl.

I'm all for cleaning up the game, but it has to go all the way, Hill and Jones should be held to account for those actions, they got away with it.

It is good that they lost the game

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:12 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:49 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:59 pm Not at all a fan of the hair pulling etc. That said, I can't be the only person reading this thread thinking 'toughen up a bit mate. You're playing test rugby in the second row'

I suspect he was saying exactly what he was told to by his representation and seeing as he had 66% of his ban knocked off (6 weeks mitigated down to 2) rather than the usual 50% for no record, admitting guilt, managing not to swear at the panel etc. I guess it did the trick.

Equally, you don't see many displays like Hill's these days, trying to ruffle your opponent with all the cameras around tends to be a bit more subtle. Might genuinely be a bit of a shock to the guy.

I think it was definitely a shock to a modern rugby player.

Back in the day, (I know, yawn etc) but back in the day if you did one of the things Hill did, you'd be bleeding profusely pretty soon afterwards, as would many others as it would have provoked an all out brawl.

I'm all for cleaning up the game, but it has to go all the way, Hill and Jones should be held to account for those actions, they got away with it.

It is good that they lost the game

Hill got carded for it, not sure what more people want. It's not really a red card offence afaik

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:46 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:12 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:49 pm

I suspect he was saying exactly what he was told to by his representation and seeing as he had 66% of his ban knocked off (6 weeks mitigated down to 2) rather than the usual 50% for no record, admitting guilt, managing not to swear at the panel etc. I guess it did the trick.

Equally, you don't see many displays like Hill's these days, trying to ruffle your opponent with all the cameras around tends to be a bit more subtle. Might genuinely be a bit of a shock to the guy.

I think it was definitely a shock to a modern rugby player.

Back in the day, (I know, yawn etc) but back in the day if you did one of the things Hill did, you'd be bleeding profusely pretty soon afterwards, as would many others as it would have provoked an all out brawl.

I'm all for cleaning up the game, but it has to go all the way, Hill and Jones should be held to account for those actions, they got away with it.

It is good that they lost the game

Hill got carded for it, not sure what more people want. It's not really a red card offence afaik

The last hairpull I can recall was Creevy on Etzebeth in the Challenge Cup knock outs and he got a yellow on the field, but was cited and banned (one week).

I'm also surprised he evaded citing for the forceful shove to the face. I know it's not a punch, but the offence in the law book is striking rather than punching and it was to the head. Seems like a fairly clear cut red to me.

Perhaps, but I've never seen a single red card for an open hand shove to the face. And it happens pretty often, albeit usually in bouts of handbags rather than in normal play.

The hair pull is an odd one given the recent precedent. Was expecting a citing for that

Rugby is still a game that requires aggression and physically dominating opponents by force. Often lots and lots of force. I think people judging from the sidelines often forget this. Sure there are rules of course and dangerous play must be penalised but this was just two locks establishing who the alpha male was. The ref/TMO could have had words when Hill pushed him in the face that they were on notice. That might have been enough to stop what followed.

I believe in the premiership they can award retrospective yellow cards. Wonder if that's a thing in international. Would have placed Hill on a red effectively?

Lawes echoing Jones "It's the performance" and about "development"
How many matches until t5he RWC starts?

England captain Courtney Lawes says "patience" will be required while the side are "developing as a team".

Lawes will lead England in the second Test against Australia on Saturday as they try to level the series after a defeat in the opening game.

Guy Porter and Tommy Freeman will make their debuts in the game, while Jack van Poortvliet will make his first start.

Lawes said at this stage performance is a higher priority than the win.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62091854

The problem with the "focus on the World Cup" nonsense is that if you then don't it win every time, then we've had four years of development (shite) and nothing to show for it.

There is no problem with bringing through players, but sacrificing everything on a World Cup gamble is no fun for us.

Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:03 pm The problem with the "focus on the World Cup" nonsense is that if you then don't it win every time, then we've had four years of development (shite) and nothing to show for it.

There is no problem with bringing through players, but sacrificing everything on a World Cup gamble is no fun for us.

If it was focus on the world cup why did he persist with a declining Young's for so long? Dropping Marchant is weird as he was one of England's best players in the 6N. Don't think Porter would be there if Kelly had been fit though Porter has played both center positions and wing for Tigers so is useful as a utility player. No starting spot for Arundell?

SaintK wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:33 pm Lawes echoing Jones "It's the performance" and about "development"
How many matches until t5he RWC starts?

Nine I think. Including tomorrow.

Kawazaki wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:13 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:33 pm Lawes echoing Jones "It's the performance" and about "development"
How many matches until t5he RWC starts?

Nine I think. Including tomorrow.

I love Lawes as a player and a person, but some of the shit he has been coming out with is just a bit, shit. Making the camp a nicer place to be whilst losing loads and now this kind of thing

Kawazaki wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:13 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:33 pm Lawes echoing Jones "It's the performance" and about "development"
How many matches until t5he RWC starts?

Nine I think. Including tomorrow.

2 more tests this tour, 4 this Autumn, 5 in the Six Nations and then however many world cup warm up fixtures are arranged. We went with 4 ahead of the last one.

Still not enough to bed people in with the amount of tinkering we keep seeing.

Slick wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:48 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:13 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:33 pm Lawes echoing Jones "It's the performance" and about "development"
How many matches until t5he RWC starts?

Nine I think. Including tomorrow.

I love Lawes as a player and a person, but some of the shit he has been coming out with is just a bit, shit. Making the camp a nicer place to be whilst losing loads and now this kind of thing

He's just parroting the company line, which is exactly what Eddie wants him to do. It's not like he's a natural leader or thinker

Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:03 pm The problem with the "focus on the World Cup" nonsense is that if you then don't it win every time, then we've had four years of development (shite) and nothing to show for it.

There is no problem with bringing through players, but sacrificing everything on a World Cup gamble is no fun for us.

I've all but given up on the England side until the WC is done with and we get shot of Jones - if, by some miracle (and an easyish draw) we do prosper at the WC, then I'll just see it as a totally unjustified bonus. But there's absolutely no chance of us actually winning the WC.

Ovals wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:41 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:03 pm The problem with the "focus on the World Cup" nonsense is that if you then don't it win every time, then we've had four years of development (shite) and nothing to show for it.

There is no problem with bringing through players, but sacrificing everything on a World Cup gamble is no fun for us.

I've all but given up on the England side until the WC is done with and we get shot of Jones - if, by some miracle (and an easyish draw) we do prosper at the WC, then I'll just see it as a totally unjustified bonus. But there's absolutely no chance of us actually winning the WC.

100% agree with you on this.

Willis out with a rib injury, Will Joseph in to get splinters.

Poor Willis can't catch a break.

Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:52 am Willis out with a rib injury, Will Joseph in to get splinters.

Poor Willis can't catch a break.

So back to a 5/3 bench then?
Why the fuck pick a 6/2 bench in the first place if you're not going to stick with it?

SaintK wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:57 am

Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:52 am Willis out with a rib injury, Will Joseph in to get splinters.

Poor Willis can't catch a break.

So back to a 5/3 bench then?
Why the fuck pick a 6/2 bench in the first place if you're not going to stick with it?

I think the only other back five forward in the squad is the random nobody he called up to hold tackle bags, Sam Jeffries.

Also he's flailing. Rugby Union Weekly put out a weekend preview pod yesterday where they got to interview Eddie, he sounded a lot less sure of himself than normal and was stammering a lot when trying to explain his decisions. Did nothing to change the mind of anyone who thinks he doesn't have a clue at the moment.

Also, Willis

Is Isiekwe in the squad? Can't recall without looking it up.

Oxbow wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:09 am Is Isiekwe in the squad? Can't recall without looking it up.

Just had a google and apparently he is, completel forgot about that. So it really is just Eddie not being sure of what he's doing at the moment. If 6 - 2 was really the way to go he's have put Isiekwe in.

Oxbow wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:09 am Is Isiekwe in the squad? Can't recall without looking it up.

Yes he is

Willis out of the squad, Joseph replacing him