NPR

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:32 pm If Lawes is fit, he's a cracking player to have on a tour like this and gives you a strong lineout option at 6. Would be behind Beirne in that Hybrid role at the moment though.

Hill is lucky. As is Daly, but I can see the attraction for Gatland for him with only 16 backs.

Agree on Mako scrummaging against Saffa packs. Especially without any monster locks adding grunt behind

I also think that when fit and firing Lawes can phenomenal. His 'over enthusiasm' in the tackle has been tempered over the years and got an amazing engine.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:56 pm
1. Wyn Jones
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. A-W Jones (c)
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8.Faletau

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Watson
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. Williams
15. Hogg

1. Kitshoff
2. Marx
3. Nyakane
4. Etsebeth
5. van der Mescht
6. Kolisi (c) / Van Staden
7. PSDT
8. Vermeulen

9. Faf
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. De Allende
13. Am/Hendricks
14. Penxe/Nkosi
15. Kolbe

ASMO wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:15 pm He has picked a squad to play a limited gameplan, one thing it won't be is expansive. Bosh it up, kick and let the pace chase.

I'm not so sure. If he wanted to just carry the ball up then he wouldn't have picked smaller pacey backrowers, let alone four of them. I think he's gone all in on attacking the 13 channel, get the ball at least two passes away from the breakdown and set-piece.

Traditional post selection 23 of missed out, snubbed and injured players that would take the Lions apart (sort of) *

Marler
McInally
Sinckler
Launchbury
Ryan
Navidi
Underhill
Vunipola
Cooney
Ford
Stockdale
Manu
Slade
North
Malins

Genge, Brown, Francis, Gray, Leavy, Spencer, Ringrose, Nowell

VS

Sutherland
Owens
Fagerson
Hill
Henderson
Lawes
Watson
Simmonds
Price
Russell
Adams
Aki
Harris
Daly
Williams

only one winner!

Blackmac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:30 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:52 am

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:46 am Harris, Hogg, Price, Russell, VDM, Fagerson, Sutherland, Watson

Happy with that.

Bloody delighted here. I was trying to keep my expectations down to 5 or 6. Been hurt too many times.

Actually feels like fair representation for the first time in forever. The only one who surprises me is Price, though if you’d mentioned Harris 6 months ago I’d have laughed at you. Ritchie’s time will come, he’s still young. Jonny Gray is the one I really feel bad for.

Yeah, delighted, but like you I cannot see Hill over Gray, that is nonsense.

Hill and Gray play the same position but fulfil different roles. Would be surprised if the selection was Hill or Gray.

“Something special....something”

sorCrer wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:56 pm
1. Wyn Jones
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. A-W Jones (c)
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8.Faletau

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Watson
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. Williams
15. Hogg

1. Kitshoff
2. Marx
3. Nyakane
4. Etsebeth
5. van der Mescht
6. Kolisi (c) / Van Staden
7. PSDT
8. Vermeulen

9. Faf
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. De Allende
13. Am/Hendricks
14. Penxe/Nkosi
15. Kolbe

Kolbe won’t play 15, you nutter

Sandstorm wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:58 pm

sorCrer wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm

Kawazaki wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:56 pm
1. Wyn Jones
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. A-W Jones (c)
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8.Faletau

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Watson
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. Williams
15. Hogg

1. Kitshoff
2. Marx
3. Nyakane
4. Etsebeth
5. van der Mescht
6. Kolisi (c) / Van Staden
7. PSDT
8. Vermeulen

9. Faf
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. De Allende
13. Am/Hendricks
14. Penxe/Nkosi
15. Kolbe

Kolbe won’t play 15, you nutter

Was hoping for a bite from Sards.

Lemoentjie wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:06 pm Nothing scary in that squad. Should be a comfortable series win for the bokke.

That's what we thought - and then they bought two very strange refs for two of the tests.

So head to head for the first test. tighthead vs loosehead, left vs right wing

1. Wyn Jones - Malherbe , even
2. Owens - Mbonambi , even
3. Furlong - Kitshoff , even
4. A-W Jones (c) - Etzebeth , boks
5. Itoje - Mostert , lions
6. Beirne - PSDT no.7 , boks
7. Curry - Kolisi no.6 , lions
8.Faletau - Diesel Duane , boks

9. Murray - Faf , boks
10. Biggar - Pollard , boks
11. Watson - Kolbe no.14 , boks
12. Henshaw - D'Allende , boks
13. Harris - Am , even?
14. Williams - Mapimpi no.11 , even
15. Hogg - Willie , lions

Enzedder wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:02 pm

Lemoentjie wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:06 pm Nothing scary in that squad. Should be a comfortable series win for the bokke.

That's what we thought - and then they bought two very strange refs for two of the tests.

I’m not sure French refs will be too friendly with old Blighty at the moment Enz

Bah, Referees schmeferees! That's not a problem for us in the Republic. And if that doesn't do the trick we'll wheel old Suzy out to serve the Lions their pre-match breakfast.

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:47 pm

That is awesome. Might be dusty in here

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:47 pm

I was in the company of some Scotland players in 2013 when the Lions squad was announced. Huge cheers for Hogg & Maitland, tumbleweed for R. Gray

Today was a good day

Chrysoprase wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:49 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:47 pm

I was in the company of some Scotland players in 2013 when the Lions squad was announced. Huge cheers for Hogg & Maitland, tumbleweed for R. Gray

Did you find out why?

Fairly interesting press conference video from Gatland.



Some highlights (obviously paraphrasing)

Sexton - Durability and doubts about his ability to string tough games together
Ryan - Good player, but doubts about physicality against SA
Aki - Is physical enough and was a fan of him partnering Henshaw
Simmonds - Offers good variation. Good footwork and pace (need to do more than just run straight at SA). Notes his work off attacking lineouts and try scoring.
Sinckler - Unlucky, but he likes Porter's versatility.
Navidi - Doubts about his fitness (shoulder issue). Need to ensure they are getting on the plane with fit players with games under their belt.
Davies - Not quite up to speed following his injury. Hints that he's on stand by list

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:28 pm Fairly interesting press conference video from Gatland.



Some highlights (obviously paraphrasing)

Sexton - Durability and doubts about his ability to string tough games together
Ryan - Good player, but doubts about physicality against SA
Aki - Is physical enough and was a fan of him partnering Henshaw
Simmonds - Offers good variation. Good footwork and pace (need to do more than just run straight at SA). Notes his work off attacking lineouts and try scoring.
Sinckler - Unlucky, but he likes Porter's versatility.
Navidi - Doubts about his fitness (shoulder issue). Need to ensure they are getting on the plane with fit players with games under their belt.
Davies - Not quite up to speed following his injury. Hints that he's on stand by list

I was a bit surprised at his absence; but he has the misfortune to play in a position that is ultra competitive; but justifying not picking him with that excuse is BS; as it automatically makes you ask how he's picking Lawes, & most of the Sarries players.

Gatland is taking a very big punt on a number of English players finding form, that most definitely wasn't present during the 6N.

FalseBayFC wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:08 pm So head to head for the first test. tighthead vs loosehead, left vs right wing

1. Wyn Jones - Malherbe , even
2. Owens - Mbonambi , even
3. Furlong - Kitshoff , even
4. A-W Jones (c) - Etzebeth , boks
5. Itoje - Mostert , lions
6. Beirne - PSDT no.7 , boks
7. Curry - Kolisi no.6 , lions
8.Faletau - Diesel Duane , boks

9. Murray - Faf , boks
10. Biggar - Pollard , boks
11. Watson - Kolbe no.14 , boks
12. Henshaw - D'Allende , boks
13. Harris - Am , even?
14. Williams - Mapimpi no.11 , even
15. Hogg - Willie , lions

Henshaw is better than D’Allende.

Aki is an odd selection.

Didn't realise Sexton hasn't played three weekends in a row since 2018. Can't protect someone in that way on a Lions tour.

fishfoodie wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:24 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:28 pm Fairly interesting press conference video from Gatland.



Some highlights (obviously paraphrasing)

Sexton - Durability and doubts about his ability to string tough games together
Ryan - Good player, but doubts about physicality against SA
Aki - Is physical enough and was a fan of him partnering Henshaw
Simmonds - Offers good variation. Good footwork and pace (need to do more than just run straight at SA). Notes his work off attacking lineouts and try scoring.
Sinckler - Unlucky, but he likes Porter's versatility.
Navidi - Doubts about his fitness (shoulder issue). Need to ensure they are getting on the plane with fit players with games under their belt.
Davies - Not quite up to speed following his injury. Hints that he's on stand by list

I was a bit surprised at his absence; but he has the misfortune to play in a position that is ultra competitive; but justifying not picking him with that excuse is BS; as it automatically makes you ask how he's picking Lawes, & most of the Sarries players.

Gatland is taking a very big punt on a number of English players finding form, that most definitely wasn't present during the 6N.

Lawes is back fit now though as far as I'm aware. Gatland was talking about Navidi's absence stretching into June and that being too much of a risk.

Couldn’t find the whole squad posted.

British & Irish Lions Squad 2021

Below are the 37 players selected for this year’s Lions tour to South Africa.

(DoB/Country/Club/Test debut/caps)

Back three

Josh Adams (21 Apr 1995/Wales/Cardiff Blues/2018 v Scotland/32)

Stuart Hogg (24 Jun 1992/Scotland/Exeter Chiefs/2012 v Wales/85)


Louis Rees-Zammit (2 Feb 2001/Wales/Gloucester/2020 v France/9)

Duhan van der Merwe (4 Jun 1995/Scotland/Edinburgh/2020 v Georgia/10)

Anthony Watson (26 Feb 1994/England/Bath/2014 v New Zealand/51 (+3 for Lions))

Liam Williams (9 Apr 1991/Wales/Scarlets/2012 v Barbarians/71 (+3 for Lions))




Centres

Bundee Aki (7 Apr 1990/Ireland/Connacht/2017 v South Africa/31)

Elliot Daly (8 Oct 1992/England/Saracens/2016 v Ireland/52 (+3 for Lions))

Chris Harris (28 Dec 1990/Scotland/Gloucester/2017 v Samoa/28)

Robbie Henshaw (12 Jun 1993/Ireland/Leinster/2013 v USA/52)


Fy-halves

Dan Biggar (16 Oct 1989/Wales/Northampton Saints/2008 v Canada/92)

Owen Farrell (24 Sep 1991/England/Saracens/2012 v Scotland/93 (+4 for Lions))

Finn Russell (23 Sep 1992/Scotland/Racing 92/2014 v USA/55)

Scrum-halves


Gareth Davies (18 Aug 1990/Wales/Scarlets/2014 v South Africa/62)

Conor Murray (20 Apr 1989/Ireland/Munster/2011 v France/89 (+5 for Lions))

Ali Price (12 May 1993/Scotland/Glasgow Warriors/2016 v Georgia/42)

Hookers


Luke Cowan-Dickie (20 Jun 1993/England/Exeter Chiefs/2015 v France/31)

Jamie George (20 Oct 1990/England/Saracens/2015 v France/59 (+3 for Lions))

Ken Owens (3 Jan 1987/Wales/Scarlets/2011 v Namibia/82 (+2 for Lions))

Props

Zander Fagerson (19 Jan 1996/Scotland/Glasgow Warriors/2016 v England/38)


Tadhg Furlong (14 Nov 1992/Ireland/Leinster/2015 v Wales/49 (+3 for Lions))

Wyn Jones (26 Feb 1992/Wales/Scarlets/2017 v Tonga/35)

Andrew Porter (16 Jan 1996/Ireland/Leinster/2017 v USA/37)

Rory Sutherland (24 Aug 1992/Scotland/Edinburgh/2016 v Ireland/16)

Mako Vunipola (14 Jan 1991/England/Saracens/2012 v Fiji/67 (+6 for Lions))


Locks

Tadhg Beirne (8 Jan 1992/Ireland/Munster/2018 v Australia/22)

Iain Henderson (21 Feb 1992/Ireland/Ulster/2012 v South Africa/63)

Jonny Hill (8 Jun 1994/England/Exeter Chiefs/2020 v Italy/9)

Maro Itoje (28 Oct 1994/England/Saracens/2016 v Italy/48 (+3 for Lions))


Alun Wyn Jones (19 Sep 1985/Wales/Ospreys/2006 v Argentina/148 (+9 for Lions))

Courtney Lawes (23 Feb 1989/England/Northampton Saints/2009 v Australia/87 (+2 for Lions))



Back-rows

Jack Conan (29 Jul 1992/Ireland/Leinster/2015 v Scotland/20)

Tom Curry (15 Jun 1998/England/Sale Sharks/2017 v Argentina/33)

Taulupe Faletau (12 Nov 1990/Wales/Bath/2011 v Barbarians/86 (+4 for Lions))

Sam Simmonds (10 Nov 1994/England/Exeter Chiefs/2017 v Argentina/7)

Justin Tipuric (6 Aug 1989/Wales/Ospreys/2011 v Argentina/85 (+1 for Lions))

Hamish Watson (15 Oct 1991/Scotland/Edinburgh/2015 v Italy/41)

Flockwitt wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:11 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:08 pm So head to head for the first test. tighthead vs loosehead, left vs right wing

1. Wyn Jones - Malherbe , even
2. Owens - Mbonambi , even
3. Furlong - Kitshoff , even
4. A-W Jones (c) - Etzebeth , boks
5. Itoje - Mostert , lions
6. Beirne - PSDT no.7 , boks
7. Curry - Kolisi no.6 , lions
8.Faletau - Diesel Duane , boks

9. Murray - Faf , boks
10. Biggar - Pollard , boks
11. Watson - Kolbe no.14 , boks
12. Henshaw - D'Allende , boks
13. Harris - Am , even?
14. Williams - Mapimpi no.11 , even
15. Hogg - Willie , lions

Henshaw is better than D’Allende.

Henshaw has had a more consistent career sure. But outside Pollard and on current form I believe D'Alllende has too much for Henshaw.

Margin__Walker wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:28 pm Fairly interesting press conference video from Gatland.



Some highlights (obviously paraphrasing)

Sexton - Durability and doubts about his ability to string tough games together
Ryan - Good player, but doubts about physicality against SA
Aki - Is physical enough and was a fan of him partnering Henshaw
Simmonds - Offers good variation. Good footwork and pace (need to do more than just run straight at SA). Notes his work off attacking lineouts and try scoring.
Sinckler - Unlucky, but he likes Porter's versatility.
Navidi - Doubts about his fitness (shoulder issue). Need to ensure they are getting on the plane with fit players with games under their belt.
Davies - Not quite up to speed following his injury. Hints that he's on stand by list

This bit surprised me - Gatland spoke about it as a shoot-out between Sinckler and Porter. Which suggests that Zander Fagerson was already in by that point. I had no idea his stock was so high, and judging by most Scottish punditry and posting on here, he was firmly in the "less than a 50/50 chance'' box for Scottish fans.

So, the only one I’d call a Bolger there is Rees-Zammit.

Yeah, definitely sounds like Fagerson was fairly locked in.

I do wonder how this effects the wider context of Eddie Jones and England.

Being picked for the Lions is still the players biggest accolade, way ahead of a WC squad. So is there going to be a bit of resentment towards him now from those playing for England that haven’t been picked and those not even looked at because he won’t pick them for England?

There are some pretty forceful personalities very disappointed

Some of the justifications are really weird. He says no Billy because his form in the six nations wasn't what he was expecting. Fair enough.

Then he defends picking several players whose form in the six nations was terrible, saying it was his job to create an environment for them to regain their form. Just bizarre.

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:26 pm

Spoiler

Show

Chrysoprase wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:49 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:47 pm

I was in the company of some Scotland players in 2013 when the Lions squad was announced. Huge cheers for Hogg & Maitland, tumbleweed for R. Gray

Did you find out why?

The guys that were there didn't really want to go into it with an "outsider" and I certainly didn't know them well enough to push it at all, but from what I could gather he wasn't particularly well liked in and around the Warriors squad (don't forget this was just after he'd left Glasgow). There were rumours I heard from another source about him trying it on with other players' girlfriends, that may or may not be true.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:17 pm Can anyone tell me who can carry the ball up in traffic - forwards and backs - on slow ball when required?

Don't say Aki.

Mako, Owens, George, Fagerson, Furlong, Sutherland, AWJ, Faletau, Beirne, Henshaw, Harris and Aki. Possibly Henderson.

Quite a few. And if allowed a little run-up, Curry, Itoje and Lawes come into it.

So the big question is, which players are going to get themselves injured in the next four weeks and rule themselves out of the squad?

I was very chuffed with Zander Fagerson's selection but as surprised as anyone, the noises were for Sinkler as probable back up to Furlong, and we are used to to 50/50s going against Scottish players, it turns out that Sinkler wasn't considered as second choice at all.

I think Zander suffered a little from being a bit of a freak, he made his pro debut at 18 years old. He made his full international debut against England a month after his 20th birthday, that is some going for the most physically demanding position in the sport in terms of sheer strength.

I remember Kitshoff being an absolute monster of a loosehead at the U20s, and also a funny story about him having to get permission to play senior rugby from his mum due to his age.
Kitshoff took a while to adjust to the demands of senior scrummaging, it was the same with Fagerson, and refs do tend to ping the young guy, even when there is nothing there because, well, it's an easy out for them to end the resets.


What Fagerson brings is an enormous engine, he's immensely powerful over the ball and very disruptive at opposition rucks. His scrummaging isn't an issue, hasn't been for a good couple of years now, and at 25 he is becoming more dominant there. He is a good pick for the Lions and I hope he goes well.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:49 am Some of the justifications are really weird. He says no Billy because his form in the six nations wasn't what he was expecting. Fair enough.

Then he defends picking several players whose form in the six nations was terrible, saying it was his job to create an environment for them to regain their form. Just bizarre.

You have to make an allowance for coach speak. I'd have been shocked if he had said anything other than the standard sort of reasons even if he did contradict himself.

assfly wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:47 am So the big question is, which players are going to get themselves injured in the next four weeks and rule themselves out of the squad?

If any of the players get injured playing this bullshit rainbow cup thing it will be a travesty.

Big D wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:07 am If any of the players get injured playing this bullshit rainbow cup thing it will be a travesty.

Yes that will be dreadful. Same goes for the Bok players, it's such a meaningless tournament but we need the players with more playing time.

I see Geech in the papers musing that SIncklers arrest in NZ (not charged) was a factor in his non selection.

Big D wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:06 am

JM2K6 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:49 am Some of the justifications are really weird. He says no Billy because his form in the six nations wasn't what he was expecting. Fair enough.

Then he defends picking several players whose form in the six nations was terrible, saying it was his job to create an environment for them to regain their form. Just bizarre.

You have to make an allowance for coach speak. I'd have been shocked if he had said anything other than the standard sort of reasons even if he did contradict himself.

No I don't - only for coaches I like ;)

JM2K6 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:14 am

Big D wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:06 am

JM2K6 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:49 am Some of the justifications are really weird. He says no Billy because his form in the six nations wasn't what he was expecting. Fair enough.

Then he defends picking several players whose form in the six nations was terrible, saying it was his job to create an environment for them to regain their form. Just bizarre.

You have to make an allowance for coach speak. I'd have been shocked if he had said anything other than the standard sort of reasons even if he did contradict himself.

No I don't - only for coaches I like ;)

Understandable :)

Big D wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:13 am I see Geech in the papers musing that SIncklers arrest in NZ (not charged) was a factor in his non selection.

That's an interesting point, I expect that was a massive PITA for the tour management team, maybe Gatland has decided Sinkler is too much of a liability

Would be a bit harsh if true, it was 4 years ago and from what I've seen of him Sinkler seems to have grown up a bit since then.