What's going on in Ukraine?

[Uncle fester]

I'd not be surprised if he had someone leak that he was going to be on the plane (while actually being safely ensconced somewhere else) to see what Putin would do.

Would be amazed that people still trust putin not to murder them in their sleep.

[tabascoboy]

Seems that the FSB may be promoting this

[Slick]

Absolute carnage coming in Russia if true

Presumably Putin waited until Wagners ability or will to actually do anything about it is degraded a considerable amount compared to a few months ago.

Will be interesting though.

A lot of potentially unemployed, hunted, heavily armed cunts left behind though.

I see the Wagner Telegram channel saying if he’s dead they are coming to Moscow

[_Os_]

I remember when the Putin fans said it was a fake coup and a ploy to get Wagner into Belarus and attack Kyiv from the north again (Wagner needed a fake coup to drive down the road to Belarus allegedly). All just a Putin master strategist plan coming together.
Now they're saying Putin whacked him and it shows Putin is a big strong man. All just a Putin master strategist plan coming together.

We all called it correctly, it was a real coup attempt and Prigozhin was in danger of being killed for it.

Will be interesting to see what happens next. Wagner was supposed to have handed over all their armour, no clue if they still have a working command structure and if enough of them are still in Rostov-on-Don near Russian stores/logistics. Or if the few thousand in Belarus could spark a civil war there.

I'm guessing nothing happens. All massively unstable though.

[Insane_Homer]

Screenshot_20230823-215518.png (456.57 KiB) Viewed 1269 times

[Gumboot]

FHHD

[laurent]

Would have been nice to see the bastards in the plane stand trial in the Hague.

[fishfoodie]

Would have been nice to see the bastards in the plane stand trial in the Hague.

Meh, he suffered more in the minutes while the plane plummeted towards the ground than he would in decades in a nice humanitarian cell.

[dkm57]

Some suggestion that Utkin was also on the plane, if so that would be a big +

[Uncle fester]

Presumably Putin waited until Wagners ability or will to actually do anything about it is degraded a considerable amount compared to a few months ago.

Will be interesting though.

A lot of potentially unemployed, hunted, heavily armed cunts left behind though.

I see the Wagner Telegram channel saying if he’s dead they are coming to Moscow

They did fück all with leaders in place. With leaders dead, they'll do double fück all.

(Hopefully I'm wrong)

[Hellraiser]

The really interesting thing will be to see how many Wagner/ex-Wagner mercs contact HUR looking for revenge. Very few people remember that Otto Skorzeny ultimately ended up becoming a Mossad asset.

[tabascoboy]

Keir Giles, from the London-based think tank Chatham House, says there is “one huge caveat” we need to consider.

“It’s been announced that a passenger by the name of Yevgeny Prigozhin was on board - but it is also known that multiple individuals have changed their name to Yevgeny Prigozhin, as part of his efforts to obfuscate his travels,” Giles says.

He adds that until we know “for certain” that it’s the right Prigozhin, “let’s not be surprised if he pops up shortly in a new video from Africa”.

Even so, the idea that he could prevent a determined effort by the FSB for his expedient demise is pushing things, and until we see a new video of Prigozhin holding up a newspaper printed after yesterday then Occam's Razor applies IMO

[Gumboot]

Keir Giles, from the London-based think tank Chatham House, says there is “one huge caveat” we need to consider.

“It’s been announced that a passenger by the name of Yevgeny Prigozhin was on board - but it is also known that multiple individuals have changed their name to Yevgeny Prigozhin, as part of his efforts to obfuscate his travels,” Giles says.

He adds that until we know “for certain” that it’s the right Prigozhin, “let’s not be surprised if he pops up shortly in a new video from Africa”.

Even so, the idea that he could prevent a determined effort by the FSB for his expedient demise is pushing things, and until we see a new video of Prigozhin holding up a newspaper printed after yesterday then Occam's Razor applies IMO

Yep, and I don't know how often he and his 2IC fly together, but two birds with one stone, etc.

[tabascoboy]

Anything to be said for this being a Western operation. His African sojourns are extremely troublesome.

Russia may well try to put that spin on it and that it was a UA "terrorist attack" but that would bring more problems in suggesting poor internal security. I still think Occam's Razor here...

So, will wee soon see any "kompromat" from Wagner that Prigozhin may have been keeping on the regime? Also hopes of a backlash against the regime are possibly nothing more than that



https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1694 ... 28441.html



https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1694 ... 85425.html

[Hal Jordan]

Anything to be said for this being a Western operation. His African sojourns are extremely troublesome.

Some other cunt of a human being would fill the vacuum. He was a known entity if nothing else.

[tabascoboy]

A bit crazy if true

The units of the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine landed in Crimea as part of a special operation on Cape Tarkhankut, – confirmed intelligence representative Andrii Yusov.

The media reported that on August 24, at about 5 a.m. (GMT+3), a battle involving aviation broke out in the area of the village of Maiak, and explosions were heard.

Yusov stated that all tasks within the special operation were completed. This is the same cape where the S-400 was destroyed yesterday.

[tabascoboy]

They found a fall guy!

URGENT
As it became known to the Cheka-OGPU, the first suspect appeared in the case of blowing up Prigozhin's plane. This is Prigozhin's personal pilot and the former founder of MNT Aero (the owner of the crashed jet) Artem Stepanov. Law enforcement can't find him. He had access to the plane, before the explosion he left for Kamchatka, where he "got lost." The only thing that his brother could tell was that he was supposedly the third day on the campaign and without
communication. Stepanov is actively searched for by law enforcement agencies, he may no longer be in the Russian Federation 10 11:25

[tabascoboy]

This would at least account for the fact that Prigozhin could have returned to Russia so soon after being in Africa

Even before yesterday’s plane crash the future of Wagner and its operations in Africa were in doubt.

Sources close to the group say there were plans afoot, led by the deputy director of Russia’s GRU military intelligence unit, to replace much of Wagner with a parallel mercenary group.

Prigozhin was said to be furiously resisting this and rushed back from Mali to Russia to try to forestall it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66599774

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

Putin commented on the death of Prigozhin.

“Early data indicates Wagner employees were in the plane. I think Wagner made a significant contribution in fighting nazism in Ukraine. Prigozhin was talented man, but had a difficult fate.

Putin said furthermore that an investigation into the accident of Prigozhin's plane is underway and it will be brought to an end.

[fishfoodie]

If I had to guess at why he wasn't dead 5 minutes after the coup attempt, I think it was so the FSB could build a list of other people who needed to be defenestrated to make sure any material never saw the light of day !

[Hellraiser]

[Hellraiser]

The deputy commander of Rusich Group, Yan Petrovsky, has been arrested in Finland. How he got into Finland given he's on the sanctions lists will be an interesting thing to find out. Ukraine has requested his extradition.

[_Os_]

There's definitely some momentum developing.

Ukraine has put in a lot of very strong units into that area now. Looks like a broad attack along the front from Kopani to Novokarlivka. There are some reports from Russian sources that Ukraine has taken Novoprokopivka directly south of Robotyne, if so Ukraine is on the edge of Russia's second line around Solodka Balka.

I've just done some quick research on the known Russian units in that area. It's almost all BARS and territorials, it's a weak Russian formation, if Novoprokopivka has fallen so quickly after Robotyne then they're breaking. There are also some Russian Air Assault units in that area that look strong on paper, but digging a bit more these were all routed from Kherson and probably lost all their best equipment there and definitely took heavy casualties. The only caveat to this is Russia has been leaving units on the frontline and not rotating, as these units get depleted companies/battalions from other regiments/brigades are used to replenish them, these could be naval infantry and mobilised rifle infantry (who could be veterans/properly trained) that are quite good. Something that's a BARS unit on the map could be a mash of BARS/naval infantry/veteran rifle infantry.

The main issue for Ukraine is how quickly they can get through the minefields and fortifications on the second defencive line. Otherwise it looks like some of Ukraine's strongest units outnumbering Russian units that don't look so good.

[Hellraiser]

No comment

[Hal Jordan]

Bastard. Rumours are he is working for Hunter Biden

He was also a key defence witness for Trump. Definitely a CIA black ops job.

[tabascoboy]

[Hellraiser]

[Chilli]

No comment

Ok, what is this about?

[tabascoboy]

No comment

Ok, what is this about?

Reportedly:

Russian Army soldiers unloading a Cold War era T-10 heavy tank off a transport truck (produced from 1954 - 1966) it has 122mm gun & could be used as mobile artillery. The gun is compatible with old 122mm field artillery shells. Russians have already sent T-55s previously to the frontlines.

[Chilli]

No comment

Ok, what is this about?

Reportedly:

Russian Army soldiers unloading a Cold War era T-10 heavy tank off a transport truck (produced from 1954 - 1966) it has 122mm gun & could be used as mobile artillery. The gun is compatible with old 122mm field artillery shells. Russians have already sent T-55s previously to the frontlines.

Thanks

[_Os_]

It's little more than an upgraded IS-3 late WW2 tank. Joburg military museum has more modern Soviet tanks captured in Angola.

Not really useful as artillery because of how inaccurate it'll be, which leaves it very vulnerable to counter battery fire. It'll be putting lots of rounds down the barrel all landing in some huge 05.km by 0.5km box, the return fire from something modern then opens it up in 1 to 3 rounds. Using them as artillery because of the 122mm gun is missing the point a bit. This is without getting into all the logistics issues of sending every tank Russia has produced in the last 70 years into Ukraine.

It's junk.

[Hellraiser]

It's little more than an upgraded IS-3 late WW2 tank. Joburg military museum has more modern Soviet tanks captured in Angola.

Not really useful as artillery because of how inaccurate it'll be, which leaves it very vulnerable to counter battery fire. It'll be putting lots of rounds down the barrel all landing in some huge 05.km by 0.5km box, the return fire from something modern then opens it up in 1 to 3 rounds. Using them as artillery because of the 122mm gun is missing the point a bit. This is without getting into all the logistics issues of sending every tank Russia has produced in the last 70 years into Ukraine.

It's junk.

It's a museum piece.

[Hellraiser]

[tabascoboy]

Here we go again, with another ridiculous attempt at a lie - what the heart attack somehow caused a massive spontaneous combustion on board, did it?

[Hellraiser]

[inactionman]

Here we go again, with another ridiculous attempt at a lie - what the heart attack somehow caused a massive spontaneous combustion on board, did it?

Presumably the Co-pilot was drunk.

[Slick]

Here we go again, with another ridiculous attempt at a lie - what the heart attack somehow caused a massive spontaneous combustion on board, did it?

Presumably the Co-pilot was drunk.

Scariest flight I ever had was with a bunch of pissed up Russian pilots in Iran. They were standing by the stairs having a pre flight smoke and you could smell the fumes off them.

[tabascoboy]

If there was ever a reason to trust Putin's word and enter into good faith negotiations surely this was the killing blow

Prigozhin's death has transformed Wagner centers across Russia into memorial places and the first reaction many share is disgust which is all too human. PMC Wagner is a terrorist organization which had little regard for his victims and members alike. But there is something far more important when seeing this and it bodes a grim and inescapable reality for Putin.

Putin made his move and it was none which required a prophet. His relentless and seething need for taking revenge can be tracked through his entire life, especially when it comes to betrayal. Litvinenko is but one of the prominent names which instantly comes up.

Murdering Prigozhin, however, is strategically seen and especially at this very moment an absolute blunder. While the murder of Litvinenko was in the twisted logic of Putin's Kremlin a rather safe affair, Prigozhin's murder is an outright mad gamble, or better described: blind hate and recklessness. The timing cannot be worse. Russian troops are getting hammered along the entire frontline, Russian cities are getting strafed by Ukrainian drones, blunting Russia's already untenable lie of an "special operation" and the midst of this developing catastrophe the leader of Russia sidelines the most popular fighting unit and assassinates their commanders.

You do not have to be an expert to understand what this means in terms of troops' morale. There are many both, inside and outside Russia who are absolutely confused what "logic" can possibly lead to such a mad step, even when considering that Putin's vengefulness has been well-known, and the answer is easy: vanity, money and a complete detachment of reality. Combined with his narcissistic ego, it was no surprise that he would take out his most dangerous opponent in Russia.

I can imagine that having all 3 main Wagner leaders (Prigozhin, Utkin and Chekalov) in one controlled place, was for Putin too good to be to allowed to simply to go to waste. And so he probably gave the order to decapitate Wagner.

Every supporter of Wagner knows that it was Putin who murdered Prigozhin and there is no story which Putin or anyone else around the Kremlin can cook up in order to make them think, differently. There is nothing what Putin can do in order to quell this. There will be an answer, sooner rather than later. The first test will be when the attempt will be started to assign Wagners to the Russian military or even other PMCs. That moment will determine whether they can mount resistance in an organized fashion.

Some might argue, "well, they are mercenaries and it does not make a difference who is going to pay them" and they have point because there are many working for Wagner who see it that way. But that thinking alone would be too short-sighted, especially when reflecting what popularity Wagner has garnered over the past 18 months, ironically even thanks to the help of Putin's media. But the ghost is out of the bottle. They being pressed into Shoigu's PMC Patriot or Gerasimov's Russian (fail) army will be a notable downgrade, and I'm talking of both, money and status.

No matter where this is going, it will further weaken the Russian war effort, which already many Pro-Russian channels warned will happen. Putin's grinning face on the very same day when Prigozhin was blown out of the skies over Tver was the very best depiction of an self-own one can possibly give. It was another episode showing how far detached Putin has become from reality. His self-defeating vengefulness has reached a point where his self-centering interests will put Russia's wider interests into backseat and his above all, even and especially above people who once were part of his inner circle. This and exterior catastrophes are usually the sufficient propellants to make dictatorships implode.

So, we can sit back and see how this will play out. I for one will prepare for another supply of popcorn.

[Uncle fester]

If there was ever a reason to trust Putin's word and enter into good faith negotiations surely this was the killing blow

Prigozhin's death has transformed Wagner centers across Russia into memorial places and the first reaction many share is disgust which is all too human. PMC Wagner is a terrorist organization which had little regard for his victims and members alike. But there is something far more important when seeing this and it bodes a grim and inescapable reality for Putin.

Putin made his move and it was none which required a prophet. His relentless and seething need for taking revenge can be tracked through his entire life, especially when it comes to betrayal. Litvinenko is but one of the prominent names which instantly comes up.

Murdering Prigozhin, however, is strategically seen and especially at this very moment an absolute blunder. While the murder of Litvinenko was in the twisted logic of Putin's Kremlin a rather safe affair, Prigozhin's murder is an outright mad gamble, or better described: blind hate and recklessness. The timing cannot be worse. Russian troops are getting hammered along the entire frontline, Russian cities are getting strafed by Ukrainian drones, blunting Russia's already untenable lie of an "special operation" and the midst of this developing catastrophe the leader of Russia sidelines the most popular fighting unit and assassinates their commanders.

You do not have to be an expert to understand what this means in terms of troops' morale. There are many both, inside and outside Russia who are absolutely confused what "logic" can possibly lead to such a mad step, even when considering that Putin's vengefulness has been well-known, and the answer is easy: vanity, money and a complete detachment of reality. Combined with his narcissistic ego, it was no surprise that he would take out his most dangerous opponent in Russia.

I can imagine that having all 3 main Wagner leaders (Prigozhin, Utkin and Chekalov) in one controlled place, was for Putin too good to be to allowed to simply to go to waste. And so he probably gave the order to decapitate Wagner.

Every supporter of Wagner knows that it was Putin who murdered Prigozhin and there is no story which Putin or anyone else around the Kremlin can cook up in order to make them think, differently. There is nothing what Putin can do in order to quell this. There will be an answer, sooner rather than later. The first test will be when the attempt will be started to assign Wagners to the Russian military or even other PMCs. That moment will determine whether they can mount resistance in an organized fashion.

Some might argue, "well, they are mercenaries and it does not make a difference who is going to pay them" and they have point because there are many working for Wagner who see it that way. But that thinking alone would be too short-sighted, especially when reflecting what popularity Wagner has garnered over the past 18 months, ironically even thanks to the help of Putin's media. But the ghost is out of the bottle. They being pressed into Shoigu's PMC Patriot or Gerasimov's Russian (fail) army will be a notable downgrade, and I'm talking of both, money and status.

No matter where this is going, it will further weaken the Russian war effort, which already many Pro-Russian channels warned will happen. Putin's grinning face on the very same day when Prigozhin was blown out of the skies over Tver was the very best depiction of an self-own one can possibly give. It was another episode showing how far detached Putin has become from reality. His self-defeating vengefulness has reached a point where his self-centering interests will put Russia's wider interests into backseat and his above all, even and especially above people who once were part of his inner circle. This and exterior catastrophes are usually the sufficient propellants to make dictatorships implode.

So, we can sit back and see how this will play out. I for one will prepare for another supply of popcorn.

They didn't do boo with leaders in place. Now without leadership, they are going to rip stuff up?

For me, it's hopium. Hopefully I'm wrong.