NPR

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:26 am**

We were fucking humped by an excellent side that didn't need to change the script much to make us look very average indeed.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:28 am**

Kamala Harris today gave a perfect summation of our current situation:

"I think that, to be very honest with you, I do believe that we should have rightly believed, but we certainly believe that certain issues are just settled. Certain issues are just settled," Harris responded.
"Clearly were not," Costa replied.
"No, that's right," Harris said. "And that's why I do believe that we are living, sadly, in real unsettled times."

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:28 am**

If he loses the series will Foster be booted out this close to a RWC?

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:31 am**

That Irish loose trio is monstrous. They just don't stop! So good at slowing down the AB ball at ruck time. Huge carriers too.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:34 am**

ASMO wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:22 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:20 am How many changes for the All Blacks from the 1st test?
Just a couple

They should have done the same as the Springboks. Now they'll force to make many changes.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:35 am**

ASMO wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:28 am If he loses the series will Foster be booted out this close to a RWC?

At great risk of upsetting any Kiwis on board with my tongue in cheek japes……

He needs more time, he’s only just getting started.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:36 am**

Superb performance by Ireland. The set piece was a complete reversal, right from the start of the game, and they have the best structured attack in the world IMO. Some daft discipline aside, that was very impressive.

New Zealand still seem to be carrying far too many players who at best seem like bench fodder. A team starting Jordie, Tupaea, Fainga'anuku, and frankly that front row...? I know we all hold the all blacks to a higher standard and I'm sure these guys would be starting or pushing for starts at most sides, but it's not scaring anyone. So many weaknesses, and it's only made worse by the weird balance of the back row, the surprisingly un Kiwi lack of impact at the breakdown, the surprising lack of ball skills, etc.

And then there's the discipline. Wow. Thick as fuck.

IMO NZ needs a serious rethink. Starting with the captain and that back row. A reconsideration as to whether players who've recently switched positions are really the best choice to be starting. A close look at what the team is actually trying to do in attack. It's a serious mess.

NZ are trying to play like they're the All Blacks of old where so many players were world class all rounders. Even someone like Aaron Smith, still the best passer around, can have the finger pointed at him for his complete inability to threaten the fringes and keep the opposition back row interested.

It's a weird time for NZ rugby, will be fascinating to see how things go next week and in the next few years.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:37 am**

FalseBayFC wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:31 am That Irish loose trio is monstrous. They just don't stop! So good at slowing down the AB ball at ruck time. Huge carriers too.

All Blacks should clean out better. Their tackling was their biggest problem. That cards killed them.

But it's the All Blacks expect them to be back with a bang next week

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:52 am**

For me the biggest issue was the ABs kicking game. And in a way that the fault lies directly with the coaches. You saw how the Irish put a man behind the jumper so they could knock the ball back - which is totally safe, never any chance for a front collision. The ABs basically didn't even contest their kicks. And you can't play the modern game without an effective kicking game of one sort or another - the ABs were just aimless. Little surprise they spent the majority of the game in their own half.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:53 am**

The game has barely been over for 10 minutes but already the NZ Herald is saying it:

Gregor Paul: It's time for change - the All Blacks have lost their way

It will forever be known as the disaster in Dunedin. From being heroic in the first test the All Blacks were catastrophic in the second, seemingly having placed whatever incendiary device they had used to blow up Ireland in Auckland last week under their own bonnet to inflict terminal damage ...
... If the All Blacks took one step forward last week, they took at least two if not three back in Dunedin and while their list of faults was long and comprehensive, the nuts and bolts of their demise could be summed up by saying they lacked physicality and imagination.
The All Blacks were passive and insipid ...

... the All Blacks can't survive in the rarefied air of test rugby by spending most of the game on their own goal line and given their recidivist offending in the art of muscling up, it is now increasingly difficult to see how the coaching team can survive.
Last week they had an obvious plan. It was well considered and executed. But in Dunedin, there was nothing in the way of tactical innovation. It was as if the All Blacks played their only innovative card last week when they surprised everyone by hitting the third runner.
.
All we got in test two were some hopeful kicks that weren't good enough to be contestable and endless one-off runners not making much of an impact.

The harsh but unavoidable truth is that this All Blacks side needs a reset. Something is not right. The talent is there but the cohesion isn't.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:03 am**

Quick. Let's edit all our posts so we can look like we saw this coming miles out

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:13 am**

Thor Sedan wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:03 am The frightening thing is if Ireland had played better than average they would have put at least another 2 or 3 tries on us.

This is a nightmare AB's side - poor skills, no game plan, no plan B, no discipline and no leadership.

I don't think it was this bad even under Mitchell.

The ABs beat both the Boks and Wallabies by 50 points under Mitchell.

And the one thing the current ABs are most badly lacking is competent coaching. When Foster wasn't around last week, they had skills, a game plan, discipline, leadership and didn't need a plan B.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:14 am**

Uncle fester wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:03 am Quick. Let's edit all our posts so we can look like we saw this coming miles out

To be fair, the score line last week was hardly a reflection of how close the game actually was. I don't think this is a great surprise.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:16 am**

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:36 am Superb performance by Ireland. The set piece was a complete reversal, right from the start of the game, and they have the best structured attack in the world IMO. Some daft discipline aside, that was very impressive.

New Zealand still seem to be carrying far too many players who at best seem like bench fodder. A team starting Jordie, Tupaea, Fainga'anuku, and frankly that front row...? I know we all hold the all blacks to a higher standard and I'm sure these guys would be starting or pushing for starts at most sides, but it's not scaring anyone. So many weaknesses, and it's only made worse by the weird balance of the back row, the surprisingly un Kiwi lack of impact at the breakdown, the surprising lack of ball skills, etc.

And then there's the discipline. Wow. Thick as fuck.

IMO NZ needs a serious rethink. Starting with the captain and that back row. A reconsideration as to whether players who've recently switched positions are really the best choice to be starting. A close look at what the team is actually trying to do in attack. It's a serious mess.

NZ are trying to play like they're the All Blacks of old where so many players were world class all rounders. Even someone like Aaron Smith, still the best passer around, can have the finger pointed at him for his complete inability to threaten the fringes and keep the opposition back row interested.

It's a weird time for NZ rugby, will be fascinating to see how things go next week and in the next few years.

2/3 of the front row were excellent. Tu'ungafasi, well, that's a different story — everything he touched turned to mud. Why he was kept on when Bower can play both sides says it all about Foster.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:19 am**

Certain Navigator wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:16 am
JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:36 am Superb performance by Ireland. The set piece was a complete reversal, right from the start of the game, and they have the best structured attack in the world IMO. Some daft discipline aside, that was very impressive.

New Zealand still seem to be carrying far too many players who at best seem like bench fodder. A team starting Jordie, Tupaea, Fainga'anuku, and frankly that front row...? I know we all hold the all blacks to a higher standard and I'm sure these guys would be starting or pushing for starts at most sides, but it's not scaring anyone. So many weaknesses, and it's only made worse by the weird balance of the back row, the surprisingly un Kiwi lack of impact at the breakdown, the surprising lack of ball skills, etc.

And then there's the discipline. Wow. Thick as fuck.

IMO NZ needs a serious rethink. Starting with the captain and that back row. A reconsideration as to whether players who've recently switched positions are really the best choice to be starting. A close look at what the team is actually trying to do in attack. It's a serious mess.

NZ are trying to play like they're the All Blacks of old where so many players were world class all rounders. Even someone like Aaron Smith, still the best passer around, can have the finger pointed at him for his complete inability to threaten the fringes and keep the opposition back row interested.

It's a weird time for NZ rugby, will be fascinating to see how things go next week and in the next few years.
2/3 of the front row were excellent. Tu'ungafasi, well, that's a different story — everything he touched turned to mud. Why he was kept on when Bower can play both sides says it all about Foster.

I dunno, they got battered in the scrum

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:20 am**

Blackmac wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:14 am
Uncle fester wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:03 am Quick. Let's edit all our posts so we can look like we saw this coming miles out
To be fair, the score line last week was hardly a reflection of how close the game actually was. I don't think this is a great surprise.

In truth, I expected us to come excruciatingly close in one of the games. It usually happens in the first test but sometimes the second.

Backrow were immense. I love them all.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:58 am**

Enzedder wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:26 am
Kiwias wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:46 am
Ymx wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:44 am You can tell Foster has been coaching them this week.

Play like headless chickens, that’ll fool them.
A complete change in the playing style from last week to this
Yes, Ireland were MUCH MUCH better

And NZ were MUCH MUCH worse. A hallmark of Foster's tenure.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:25 am**

Outstanding Ireland.
At least the boks number 1 spot is safe for a week

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:33 pm**

Flockwitt wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:52 am For me the biggest issue was the ABs kicking game. And in a way that the fault lies directly with the coaches. You saw how the Irish put a man behind the jumper so they could knock the ball back - which is totally safe, never any chance for a front collision. The ABs basically didn't even contest their kicks. And you can't play the modern game without an effective kicking game of one sort or another - the ABs were just aimless. Little surprise they spent the majority of the game in their own half.

This was my take on the ABs. They seemed intent on running everything and trying miracle passes to get out of their own 22. It really was some bonkers rugby by them.

And of course well done Ireland! Enjoy the win, must be great to get that monkey off the back.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:33 pm**

Haven’t seen any of it, but well down Ireland, a win down there of any kind is a massive achievement

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:53 pm**

convoluted wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:53 am The game has barely been over for 10 minutes but already the NZ Herald is saying it:

Gregor Paul: It's time for change - the All Blacks have lost their way
.
All we got in test two were some hopeful kicks that weren't good enough to be contestable and endless one-off runners not making much of an impact.

The harsh but unavoidable truth is that this All Blacks side needs a reset. Something is not right. The talent is there but the cohesion isn't.

Most rugby at the moment. Sad that the ABs are just going for the muscle without using the talent they have at their disposal.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:11 pm**

Slick wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:33 pm Haven’t seen any of it, but well down Ireland, a win down there of any kind is a massive achievement

Used to be....yes.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:52 pm**

Thor Sedan wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:11 pm
Slick wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:33 pm Haven’t seen any of it, but well down Ireland, a win down there of any kind is a massive achievement
Used to be....yes.

It’s almost as if a bunch of us haven’t been saying something like this would happen.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:53 pm**

Unless the Boks get pumped and lose by 15+ then NZ will finish the week ranked 4th in the World. Their lowest ever position.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:08 pm**

ia801310 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:53 pm Unless the Boks get pumped and lose by 15+ then NZ will finish the week ranked 4th in the World. Their lowest ever position.

The Foster years.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:23 pm**

Guy Smiley wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:52 pm
Thor Sedan wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:11 pm
Slick wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:33 pm Haven’t seen any of it, but well down Ireland, a win down there of any kind is a massive achievement
Used to be....yes.
It’s almost as if a bunch of us haven’t been saying something like this would happen.

The loss against Aussie and Argentina were kind of blips that I thought were kind of expected with new ideas coming in. Easy matches against Tonga and Fiji and then some really good results against Australia....and then boom. Loss to SA, Ireland and France. But not just losses - beating ups where we were out muscled, out paced and out thought.

Surely no NZ supporter thinks he's going to turn it around? The AB's best recent performance has been when Foster wasn't there. It is not a good situation.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:45 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:36 am IMO NZ needs a serious rethink. Starting with the captain and that back row. A reconsideration as to whether players who've recently switched positions are really the best choice to be starting. A close look at what the team is actually trying to do in attack. It's a serious mess.

NZ are trying to play like they're the All Blacks of old where so many players were world class all rounders. Even someone like Aaron Smith, still the best passer around, can have the finger pointed at him for his complete inability to threaten the fringes and keep the opposition back row interested.

It's a weird time for NZ rugby, will be fascinating to see how things go next week and in the next few years.

I think the lockdown, the changes to Sup, & only really having the Ozzies to test themselves against, has made it harder for NZ to test themselves,& know where they really stand.

Al least for Ireland, we have the 6N, & the HEC to get top level rugby, & even though they were disrupted by Covid, there were still plenty of hard games for Province, & Country.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:38 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:45 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:36 am IMO NZ needs a serious rethink. Starting with the captain and that back row. A reconsideration as to whether players who've recently switched positions are really the best choice to be starting. A close look at what the team is actually trying to do in attack. It's a serious mess.

NZ are trying to play like they're the All Blacks of old where so many players were world class all rounders. Even someone like Aaron Smith, still the best passer around, can have the finger pointed at him for his complete inability to threaten the fringes and keep the opposition back row interested.

It's a weird time for NZ rugby, will be fascinating to see how things go next week and in the next few years.
I think the lockdown, the changes to Sup, & only really having the Ozzies to test themselves against, has made it harder for NZ to test themselves,& know where they really stand.

Al least for Ireland, we have the 6N, & the HEC to get top level rugby, & even though they were disrupted by Covid, there were still plenty of hard games for Province, & Country.

Sorry but that’s just self serving bullshit.

NZ has a regular test match schedule that allows them to measure themselves against their top tier competition.

It’s got nothing to do with who we play.
MIT is everything to do with a coaching panel and an administration at national level that reflects nothing more subtle or complex than a traditional Old Boys club.

Foster was retained as head coach after a lacklustre RWC campaign on the strong urging of Steve Hansen. Before his initial 2 yr term was up his contract was extended after he managed the worst season in living memory, a 50/50 win loss record. His style was already clear… a lack of innovation coupled with the selection of favourites.

A loose connection can be made to the revelations that surfaced after the Womens’ team debacle and the resignation of their head coach… key appointments within the organisation are connections of people already inside the organisation.

There is nothing more dramatic to see here that the simple erosion of standards and quality that complacency delivers.

For years the ABs have flattered to deceive somewhat through the sheer talent of individual players managing to overcome deficiencies in coaching and game plans. We are seeing the fruits of that lack of labour before us now.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:47 pm**

Guy Smiley wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:38 pm ... Foster was retained as head coach after a lacklustre RWC campaign on the strong urging of Steve Hansen ...

And from memory of the 'coach selection' presentations and vetting, it was Graham Henry who spiked Robertson.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:02 pm**

Regardless of the local angst we've got a cracker of decider set up next week. Won't be looking forward to the reaction if Ireland win

will certainly be well deserved though for a work Ireland have put into their set up, they've been building a high level of professionalism for years now and all credit to the IRU also.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:40 pm**

Flockwitt wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:02 pm Regardless of the local angst we've got a cracker of decider set up next week. Won't be looking forward to the reaction if Ireland win will certainly be well deserved though for a work Ireland have put into their set up, they've been building a high level of professionalism for years now and all credit to the IRU also.

They are absolutely the most organised, well drilled team in rugby at the moment: playing to a game plan that maximises their strengths. If you are good enough to derail it, there is no plan B but plan A might be good enough to take them to a RWC final.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:25 pm**

Certain Navigator wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:16 am2/3 of the front row were excellent. Tu'ungafasi, well, that's a different story — everything he touched turned to mud. Why he was kept on when Bower can play both sides says it all about Foster.

Thought Taylor had a poor game, tbh.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:50 pm**

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:40 pm
Flockwitt wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:02 pm Regardless of the local angst we've got a cracker of decider set up next week. Won't be looking forward to the reaction if Ireland win will certainly be well deserved though for a work Ireland have put into their set up, they've been building a high level of professionalism for years now and all credit to the IRU also.
They are absolutely the most organised, well drilled team in rugby at the moment: playing to a game plan that maximises their strengths. If you are good enough to derail it, there is no plan B but plan A might be good enough to take them to a RWC final.

I think France will now top the world test rankings, with Ireland 2nd, SA 3rd and NZ a flattering 4th.

Given the evidence of the past couple of years, and assuming Foster's still in charge at the RWC, I'm now convinced the only way we'll make the Semi Finals will be through sheer dumb luck.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:07 pm**

Flockwitt wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:02 pm Regardless of the local angst we've got a cracker of decider set up next week. Won't be looking forward to the reaction if Ireland win will certainly be well deserved though for a work Ireland have put into their set up, they've been building a high level of professionalism for years now and all credit to the IRU also.

Yep and I going next week, so nice of the boys to give me a decider to go to.
I have to admit I not overly upset today, Irish deserved the win etc, and is how it goes in rugby (or sport) you off your game you usually will get punished if the opposition plays well. I decided quite a few years ago we not guaranteed of winning and if it worried me not worth watching game, found I could enjoy the game a lot more from then on!
I thought ABs looked like they thought playing under roof was going to allow them to play wider than they should of, we went away from one off runners that seemed to work well last week.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:23 pm**

Well unlike you Dan, I was extremely disappointed with the result, and very concerned that it was our third loss from our last four tests. Simply not good enough.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:50 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:37 am
FalseBayFC wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:31 am That Irish loose trio is monstrous. They just don't stop! So good at slowing down the AB ball at ruck time. Huge carriers too.
All Blacks should clean out better. Their tackling was their biggest problem. That cards killed them.

But it's the All Blacks expect them to be back with a bang next week

Every time we tried, the Irish took a step back and we were penalised.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:50 pm**

Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:23 pm Well unlike you Dan, I was extremely disappointed with the result, and very concerned that it was our third loss from our last four tests. Simply not good enough.

I don't think I will bother to watch next week. They have lost me.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:44 pm**

There is one thing our backline desperately needs: a Conrad Smith to organise them in both attack and defense. The great AB team that won two RWCs had Carter and Smith so never played like headless chicken but neither BB nor Ioane is a backline organiser.

It was painful at times last night watching the players, who are individually all quite skilled, running around in circles with no-one have a fucking clue about what they should be doing as a unit.

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:14 am**

Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:23 pm Well unlike you Dan, I was extremely disappointed with the result, and very concerned that it was our third loss from our last four tests. Simply not good enough.

Oh I a bit disappointed, just not over the top, I know why we call them tests and it's called sport. I just can't get into it's the end of the world, it isn't going to change my life, my world doesn't rely on teams I supporting always winning is all I mean. I love the game , and a one eyed AB supporter (and Canes etc) same as with club rugby, the joy of the game is in supporting teams, enjoying watching them, but keeping it all in prespective, I enjoy it more that way!

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:19 am**

Kiwias wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:44 pm There is one thing our backline desperately needs: a Conrad Smith to organise them in both attack and defense. The great AB team that won two RWCs had Carter and Smith so never played like headless chicken but neither BB nor Ioane is a backline organiser.

It was painful at times last night watching the players, who are individually all quite skilled, running around in circles with no-one have a fucking clue about what they should be doing as a unit.

There's one man for the job...

NPR

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