NPR

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:42 am

Openside wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:19 pm

Without a doubt! Least worst option!!

Although I’ve never voted Tory and usually either spoil my vote or give it to one of the smaller parties, I’d usually have that thought in my mind.

But don’t you think that’s a bit difficult to back up now given Brexit, the constant lying, partygate, offshore, refugees, and on and on and on. It’s just a bit of a lazy statement now, this feels a bit unprecedented in terms of a really shit government taking us in a very wrong direction

There is quite simply no alternative!!

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:42 am

Openside wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:19 pm

Without a doubt! Least worst option!!

Although I’ve never voted Tory and usually either spoil my vote or give it to one of the smaller parties, I’d usually have that thought in my mind.

But don’t you think that’s a bit difficult to back up now given Brexit, the constant lying, partygate, offshore, refugees, and on and on and on. It’s just a bit of a lazy statement now, this feels a bit unprecedented in terms of a really shit government taking us in a very wrong direction

There is quite simply no alternative!!

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:12 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:42 am

Although I’ve never voted Tory and usually either spoil my vote or give it to one of the smaller parties, I’d usually have that thought in my mind.

But don’t you think that’s a bit difficult to back up now given Brexit, the constant lying, partygate, offshore, refugees, and on and on and on. It’s just a bit of a lazy statement now, this feels a bit unprecedented in terms of a really shit government taking us in a very wrong direction

There is quite simply no alternative!!

No alternative to a bunch of incompetents who are fucking over the taxpayer for the benefit of corporations?

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:21 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:12 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

There is quite simply no alternative!!

No alternative to a bunch of incompetents who are fucking over the taxpayer for the benefit of corporations?

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

This is probably fair

not_english wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:33 pm It seems obvious to me, putting the moral argument aside for a minute that it is just going to be ludicrously expensive to transport and pay for asylum seekers all the way to Rwanda while their applications are being processed.
Apparently 600 arrived by boat yesterday, just one day.

Surely this is going to end up costing billions (if they can get it through the courts, which seems unlikely).

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:21 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:12 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

There is quite simply no alternative!!

No alternative to a bunch of incompetents who are fucking over the taxpayer for the benefit of corporations?

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

This is probably fair

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:06 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:21 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:12 pm

No alternative to a bunch of incompetents who are fucking over the taxpayer for the benefit of corporations?

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

This is probably fair

Yeah, he’s convinced himself it’s about competence or something, but it’s purely self interest on his part and fuck anyone less fortunate. Typical Tory boomer.

petej wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:12 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:57 am These people.

The UK moves beyond dumping its toxic waste onto 3rd world countries to dumping its "waste" human beings in a similar manner. This has shades of when the UK decided it was going to create a homeland for the Jews............ in Uganda.

And then you have this c**t
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-crit ... s-12589153

There are over 300 Tory mps but it is always the same 50-60 or so morons who get on the news

Rinkals wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:48 pm

petej wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:12 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:57 am These people.

The UK moves beyond dumping its toxic waste onto 3rd world countries to dumping its "waste" human beings in a similar manner. This has shades of when the UK decided it was going to create a homeland for the Jews............ in Uganda.

And then you have this c**t
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-crit ... s-12589153

There are over 300 Tory mps but it is always the same 50-60 or so morons who get on the news

What happened to Rory Stewart?

He seemed okay.

Rinkals wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:48 pm

petej wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:12 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:57 am These people.

The UK moves beyond dumping its toxic waste onto 3rd world countries to dumping its "waste" human beings in a similar manner. This has shades of when the UK decided it was going to create a homeland for the Jews............ in Uganda.

And then you have this c**t
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-crit ... s-12589153

There are over 300 Tory mps but it is always the same 50-60 or so morons who get on the news

What happened to Rory Stewart?

He seemed okay.

Happyhooker wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:16 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:42 am

Although I’ve never voted Tory and usually either spoil my vote or give it to one of the smaller parties, I’d usually have that thought in my mind.

But don’t you think that’s a bit difficult to back up now given Brexit, the constant lying, partygate, offshore, refugees, and on and on and on. It’s just a bit of a lazy statement now, this feels a bit unprecedented in terms of a really shit government taking us in a very wrong direction

There is quite simply no alternative!!

You've lost it son

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm

Happyhooker wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:16 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

There is quite simply no alternative!!

You've lost it son

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm

Happyhooker wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:16 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:54 pm

There is quite simply no alternative!!

You've lost it son

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:12 pm Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:46 am

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm
Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:10 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm

Happyhooker wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:16 pm

You've lost it son

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

You either have to tell us

1. The Tories are more competent than labour
2. They’re equally incompetent but I prefer Tory policies that shit all over people
3. You don’t give a shit so long as your tax is low

Which one is it?

C69 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:41 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:46 am

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

He has become a parody a bimbo lite

robmatic wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:47 am

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm
Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:46 am

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:06 am I'm a little surprised that the latest Tory sexual predator has decided to resign, & force the by-election.

HQ won't be happy; they'd have happily sat out a drawn out appeals process, & avoided a vote for as long as possible. Now we'll get the voters opinion of how well the Government is performing, & whether or not a war in Ukraine is reason enough to stick with the Tories, regardless of how badly they've fucked up domestic issues

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:23 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:46 am

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

It's missing the point in worrying fashion to label it a so-called culture war, on both sides there are those who feel the position of those against them is simply to deny they even exist, that's not a vague concern for either side of the debate. That it gets glossed over as a so-called even speaks to the misogyny many will cite

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:06 am I'm a little surprised that the latest Tory sexual predator has decided to resign, & force the by-election.

HQ won't be happy; they'd have happily sat out a drawn out appeals process, & avoided a vote for as long as possible. Now we'll get the voters opinion of how well the Government is performing, & whether or not a war in Ukraine is reason enough to stick with the Tories, regardless of how badly they've fucked up domestic issues

A man has accused Imran Ahmad Khan, the disgraced former Conservative MP, of propositioning him when he was 16.

The man, who the Guardian is calling Andrew (not his real name), says he met Khan at a birthday party in Suffolk in August 2015. He claims Khan, then in his early 40s, offered to give him oral sex and to take him to a hotel room to take cocaine and hire a sex worker.

Openside wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:53 am

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:10 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

You either have to tell us

1. The Tories are more competent than labour
2. They’re equally incompetent but I prefer Tory policies that shit all over people
3. You don’t give a shit so long as your tax is low

Which one is it?

It’s currently 1)

We all get one vote how we use it is up to us!

robmatic wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:47 am

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm
Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:32 am I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:32 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:23 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:46 am


The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

It's missing the point in worrying fashion to label it a so-called culture war, on both sides there are those who feel the position of those against them is simply to deny they even exist, that's not a vague concern for either side of the debate. That it gets glossed over as a so-called even speaks to the misogyny many will cite

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

The trans issues are very complicated and especially when it comes to the rights feminists have won over the last four or five decades, the rights conservatives resisted, in the main.
The sharp end of the issues such as the use of changing rooms become the be all and end all of the discussion, the splash headline, but it's only part of the topic, but it's far easier to use lazy tropes and facile statements than engage in the debate.

Tories know this, Johnson in particular is good at spotting a dividing line, it's easy, it gets people's backs up and it means they don't have to deal with lying to parliament or billions of pounds pissed away during a pandemic or why they got rid of protective equipment before the outbreak, or why did the PM take so long to attend the COBRA meetings, questions about Test and Trace, I could go on.

Trans issues are probably at the same place gay issues were 40/50 or so years ago, I don't pretend to have answers but I'm aware of some of the questions from many viewpoints.

At the start of this I said the culture wars only affect a relatively small percentage of the population, I'll go back on that and say we all benefit when another group wins its right to become treated as equals.

derriz wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:50 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:32 am I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

It's absolute horseshite. A circle jerk of indignation and sneering. But I see both "sides" using the exact same tactic. If you consider yourself a member of the right team in the "culture war", then keep an eye on the guardian until you find some over-the-top "left" opinion say something like admiring Marxism then express your indignation. The left side are no better - find a quote by Trump or some wing-nut alt-right racist and get highly indignant about it. Then get indignant about the indignation, smearing all "leftists" or "rightists" as being sympathetic to lunatic fringe views.

Actually, it's laughable what is referred to "far left" now - campaigns for gender neutral pronouns and the like? Who gives a fuck? Back in the 70s and 80s, the far left were blowing people up, kidnapping, hijacking airplanes and often acting as agents for an enemy of the state (the USSR). The amount of times you hear that back in the good old days, the far left were more reasonable compared to these days - it's mind boggling.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:47 am

robmatic wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:47 am

Openside wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:00 pm
Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:10 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:06 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:21 pm

This is probably fair

Yeah, he’s convinced himself it’s about competence or something, but it’s purely self interest on his part and fuck anyone less fortunate. Typical Tory boomer.

I'd like to see a full breakdown of tax and economic competence between the two major parties in the last 50 years.

You'd have to look at outcomes too.

It only takes one prime ministerial term to run down public services massively but a lot longer to build them back up again, it's like stamping on a violin compared to making one.

My eldest had problems with her ears, she had to have grommets fitted. She was born in 1996. When we started the ENT department was a dank drab place with exhausted staff, the waiting room was rammed with families with screaming kids and you'd have to wait for hours before being seen, everyone was at the end of their tether.

By the time she was discharged several years later the ENT was a nicely lit, newly decorated quiet place where you'd go in and sit for ten minutes tops before being seen. This was the same room.

The same daughter later attended an outreach programme at the new medical school which had just opened here. The idea was to get more state school kids into medicine. This outreach program ran from the first year of secondary school up to A level and through the application process. I could go into great detail as to why state school kids were not getting into medical school, these would not be my views, but the views of the head of admissions at the medical school who ran the outreach programme, but the very short version is that private school kids are prepared from day one to go on to these degrees, state school kids are at a huge disadvantage in the application process.
The traditional application process was set up to ignore huge numbers of talented young people, just because of where they went to school.

The idea of the outreach programmes came from Gordon Brown and it mandated that the new medical schools Labour were providing must run these initiatives.