NPR

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:00 am

One (at least) fore and aft then for that manoeuvrability? Upside down Chinook?

From memory that's a single unit setup, just shows the ability to vector the thrust with these units..

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:23 am From memory that's a single unit setup, just shows the ability to vector the thrust with these units..

Which would imply the mounting must be near to the centre of gravity for the boat: at least in the horizontal plan.

Impressive stuff. Wonder what reliability is like? Must be damned expensive to start with.

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:23 am From memory that's a single unit setup, just shows the ability to vector the thrust with these units..

Correct. Harbour tugs can achieve that with a single unit mounted amidships.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:30 am

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:23 am From memory that's a single unit setup, just shows the ability to vector the thrust with these units..

Which would imply the mounting must be near to the centre of gravity for the boat: at least in the horizontal plan.

Impressive stuff. Wonder what reliability is like? Must be damned expensive to start with.

Been a while since I last looked at them but they are more expensive to purchase when compared to the alternatives, reliability only becomes an issue in shallow water (from memory) but they can be bit thirsty on fuel.

What is really interesting is that they actively reduce roll motions which makes them a solid alternative in other areas more offshore - vessels that are operating as floating hotels.

Interesting read

ITF (2015), "The Impact of Mega-Ships", International Transport Forum Policy Papers, No. 10, OECD Publishing, Paris,
https://doi.org/10.1787/5jlwvzcm3j9v-en

shaggy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:31 am

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:23 am From memory that's a single unit setup, just shows the ability to vector the thrust with these units..

Correct. Harbour tugs can achieve that with a single unit mounted amidships.

Think that one has it mounted more to the stern from the wash coming off it. I was looking for the clip of one that has a twin setup, fore and aft, turning completely 360 degree, gunnels under water!..

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:00 am

shaggy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:31 am

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:23 am From memory that's a single unit setup, just shows the ability to vector the thrust with these units..

Correct. Harbour tugs can achieve that with a single unit mounted amidships.

Think that one has it mounted more to the stern from the wash coming off it. I was looking for the clip of one that has a twin setup, fore and aft, turning completely 360 degree, gunnels under water!..

Thinking of other issues
1) This set up must be more prone to damage from water debris (conventional props might be saved by the hull) or grounding. Do they use guards and, if so, would that not impact efficiency?
2) Can't imagine this is great for marine life although I suppose you would not encounter this set up in deeper waters too often?

And it has been considered for aircraft!

https://www.inceptivemind.com/cyclogyro ... les/15898/

Not sure, given complexity, costs and redundancy/safety issues that you'd see any use beyond drones and even then, not enough advantage over trad set ups. Drone tech looks more likely to head this way
https://zerozero.tech/

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:06 am

TB63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:00 am

shaggy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:31 am

Correct. Harbour tugs can achieve that with a single unit mounted amidships.

Think that one has it mounted more to the stern from the wash coming off it. I was looking for the clip of one that has a twin setup, fore and aft, turning completely 360 degree, gunnels under water!..

Thinking of other issues
1) This set up must be more prone to damage from water debris (conventional props might be saved by the hull) or grounding. Do they use guards and, if so, would that not impact efficiency?
2) Can't imagine this is great for marine life although I suppose you would not encounter this set up in deeper waters too often?

Harbour tugs have guards under and to the side, deep water normally don't, and they're quite slow rotational wise. The power comes from the angle of attack per blade..

Free now apparently

Uncle fester wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:19 pm Free now apparently

Presumably not to someone's bank account!

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:30 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:19 pm Free now apparently

Presumably not to someone's bank account!

That all depends on what contract was used for the salvage terms & conditions. If they adopted Lloyd’s Open Form the liabilities will be better known. If they were influenced to go another route it could get messy.

They wouldn't have accepted salvage rates but more like they hired the diggers and tugs.

Enzedder wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:38 am They wouldn't have accepted salvage rates but more like they hired the diggers and tugs.

Smit Salvage were engaged.

Lobby wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:32 pm

shaggy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:54 pm That all depends on what contract was used for the salvage terms & conditions. If they adopted Lloyd’s Open Form the liabilities will be better known. If they were influenced to go another route it could get messy.

Messy it is then:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56743556

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:46 pm

shaggy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:54 pm That all depends on what contract was used for the salvage terms & conditions. If they adopted Lloyd’s Open Form the liabilities will be better known. If they were influenced to go another route it could get messy.

Messy it is then:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56743556

The Egyptian authorities are legendary in their ability to resolve all manner of complex issues via the simple exchange of USD. Although, the sums quoted are not fully related to Salvage, this is now an insurance matter, but if the owners did not follow the terms of their policy then they will be fully liable. Seen this outcome before a few times there.

Poor crew, but isn't impounding the ship pretty much SOP in these cases?

shaggy wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:56 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:46 pm

shaggy wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:54 pm That all depends on what contract was used for the salvage terms & conditions. If they adopted Lloyd’s Open Form the liabilities will be better known. If they were influenced to go another route it could get messy.

Messy it is then:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56743556

The Egyptian authorities are legendary in their ability to resolve all manner of complex issues via the simple exchange of USD. Although, the sums quoted are not fully related to Salvage, this is now an insurance matter, but if the owners did not follow the terms of their policy then they will be fully liable. Seen this outcome before a few times there.

What do we reckon the ship and cargo is worth?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:05 pm

shaggy wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:56 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:46 pm

Messy it is then:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56743556

The Egyptian authorities are legendary in their ability to resolve all manner of complex issues via the simple exchange of USD. Although, the sums quoted are not fully related to Salvage, this is now an insurance matter, but if the owners did not follow the terms of their policy then they will be fully liable. Seen this outcome before a few times there.

What do we reckon the ship and cargo is worth?

It's worth £2.80 to me (cost of Amazon cat-hair comb still stuck on board)

Sandstorm wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:12 pm

It's worth £2.80 to me (cost of Amazon cat-hair comb still stuck on board)

mat the expat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:12 am

Sandstorm wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:12 pm

It's worth £2.80 to me (cost of Amazon cat-hair comb still stuck on board)

:grin: :grin:

It’s probably got my new laptop on it. Fk you Dell.