NPR

Poor skills from both teams

Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:45 pm Crowd seems weirdly quiet?

I'm watching a stream that has commentary but no crowd noise, it's weird.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:49 pm It's always the ref.

Don't be ridiculous

Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:45 pm Crowd seems weirdly quiet?

I think it's just the sound levels are all over the place.

Ref really booming loud, Comms loud, & the crowd is just background

Hutchinson played well.

Pretty crap game. Two more defeats and it's time for the SRU to decide if we have a snowballs chance in the world cup groups a new coach is needed.

'Played Argentina.

We had a horrible first half, but I think we can take them next week

Good for international rugby

Fair result. We only played for about 15 minutes

As I suspected it would go. We are looking like a shadow of the team of a couple of years ago.

Out of interest, how many kicks at goal did we miss?

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:53 pm Hutchinson played well.

Pretty crap game. Two more defeats and it's time for the SRU to decide if we have a snowballs chance in the world cup groups a new coach is needed.

Hutchinson looked class every time he had the ball

Slick wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:04 pm Out of interest, how many kicks at goal did we miss?

I think only one

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:00 pm As I suspected it would go. We are looking like a shadow of the team of a couple of years ago.

I think this game shows again how much we rely on Hogg and Finn.

We never dominate any teams up front so it's all about the backs. We had no ball to speak of in the first half, and mistakes let Argentina score in that first period.
We looked better in the second half but we need to secure better possession and build phases, we look okay when we do that but it's all down to keeping the ball

According to Jamie Lyall on twitter Scotland made one line break and conceded 13 turnovers...

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:16 pm According to Jamie Lyall on twitter Scotland made one line break and conceded 13 turnovers...

Match stats here

https://www.espn.com/rugby/matchstats?g ... gue=289234

Well

Fuck

No difference in the quality of the players on the pitch. I'm blaming all of that on Townsend. He's a shit coach and he's not getting enough out of the players who are in front of him.

Biffer wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:23 pm Well

Fuck

No difference in the quality of the players on the pitch. I'm blaming all of that on Townsend. He's a shit coach and he's not getting enough out of the players who are in front of him.

It's just the constant underwhelming displays that get me. You look at how that absolutely shite Welsh team fronted up to SA today and then realise that its not a performance we are capable off.

Blackmac wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:34 pm

Biffer wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:23 pm Well

Fuck

No difference in the quality of the players on the pitch. I'm blaming all of that on Townsend. He's a shit coach and he's not getting enough out of the players who are in front of him.

It's just the constant underwhelming displays that get me. You look at how that absolutely shite Welsh team fronted up to SA today and then realise that its not a performance we are capable off.

Wales are a better team than Scotland though. I don't know how many times they need to beat us for us to clue into that.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:38 pm

Blackmac wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:34 pm

Biffer wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:23 pm Well

Fuck

No difference in the quality of the players on the pitch. I'm blaming all of that on Townsend. He's a shit coach and he's not getting enough out of the players who are in front of him.

It's just the constant underwhelming displays that get me. You look at how that absolutely shite Welsh team fronted up to SA today and then realise that its not a performance we are capable off.

Wales are a better team than Scotland though. I don't know how many times they need to beat us for us to clue into that.

There are six teams in the 6N and four of them are better than Scotland, much better, it has been shown in every 6N there has been, almost.
We are down the pecking order at the world cup too, we havn't toured New Zealand for decades because our result didn't merit it. We have had almost as many Lions as we've deserved since the game went professional.
That's where we are and it's okay.

That's what I'm saying, don't delude yourselves into thinking we are going to beat anyone, it all gets a bit Ally's Army in that case, just get behind the laddies and support them

We are coached terribly. Over and over again.

Townsend has access to the best players in the last twenty years and all he seems to do is argue with them.

I’m never going to pretend we’re world beaters. But even today, man for man, we should have done a whole lot better.

Biffer wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:03 pm We are coached terribly. Over and over again.

Townsend has access to the best players in the last twenty years and all he seems to do is argue with them.

I’m never going to pretend we’re world beaters. But even today, man for man, we should have done a whole lot better.

Without watching it again, the first half was awful, we didn't have any possession or territory and we made howling errors. The errors were individual errors, not coaching ones.

We seem to play a lot of first halfs without the ball and without territory, maybe that is down to coaching, I don't know

I don’t think, man for man, that Wales have better players than we do. But they think they are better, they go into games believing they are better, and they fight to the last breath. That’s why they pushed SA to the wire, and we would have meekly conceded the game by 15+.

This is what is frustrating.

Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:10 pm I don’t think, man for man, that Wales have better players than we do. But they think they are better, they go into games believing they are better, and they fight to the last breath. That’s why they pushed SA to the wire, and we would have meekly conceded the game by 15+.

This is what is frustrating.

c'mon, they've had Foxy, Biggar, Lydiate, Faletau, Warburton, Williams (L), Peak North, AWJ, the flanker with the blue scrum cap... they've had heaps of really good players

okay, I've reread that, but these guys have instilled a winning mentality on the ones who have come after, they expect to win, just as Ireland do now, even though you could say their Golden Generation didn't really win as much as they might have, with the likes of BOD and O'Brien and whatever

Biffer wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:03 pm We are coached terribly. Over and over again.

Townsend has access to the best players in the last twenty years and all he seems to do is argue with them.

I’m never going to pretend we’re world beaters. But even today, man for man, we should have done a whole lot better.

This

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:58 pm
There are six teams in the 6N and four of them are better than Scotland, much better, it has been shown in every 6N there has been, almost.
We are down the pecking order at the world cup too, we havn't toured New Zealand for decades because our result didn't merit it. We have had almost as many Lions as we've deserved since the game went professional.
That's where we are and it's okay.

That's what I'm saying, don't delude yourselves into thinking we are going to beat anyone, it all gets a bit Ally's Army in that case, just get behind the laddies and support them

This is spot on for me. With the level of resources Sco has, I think the expectations are too high. Especially after there are moments they punch above their own weight. The results of the Sco teams in the URC (a weak comp) don't lie and that Glasgow result at the season end v Leinster.....

For me (and I know I'm not an expert on Sco rugby politics), shafting the Borders was as fatal a blow to Sco as the WRU's killing off the Warriors and underfunding the Dragons in Wales.

As for the Arg game, something about Sco v Arg seems to predetermine them as error strewn messes which are decided by a score: often an error. FWIW, I had Arg by 5........... but then I had Eng to sneak it against Aus

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:09 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:58 pm
There are six teams in the 6N and four of them are better than Scotland, much better, it has been shown in every 6N there has been, almost.
We are down the pecking order at the world cup too, we havn't toured New Zealand for decades because our result didn't merit it. We have had almost as many Lions as we've deserved since the game went professional.
That's where we are and it's okay.

That's what I'm saying, don't delude yourselves into thinking we are going to beat anyone, it all gets a bit Ally's Army in that case, just get behind the laddies and support them

This is spot on for me. With the level of resources Sco has, I think the expectations are too high. Especially after there are moments they punch above their own weight. The results of the Sco teams in the URC (a weak comp) don't lie and that Glasgow result at the season end v Leinster.....

For me (and I know I'm not an expert on Sco rugby politics), shafting the Borders was as fatal a blow to Sco as the WRU's killing off the Warriors and underfunding the Dragons in Wales.

As for the Arg game, something about Sco v Arg seems to predetermine them as error strewn messes which are decided by a score: often an error. FWIW, I had Arg by 5........... but then I had Eng to sneak it against Aus

The problem with the Welsh comparison is that the Welsh teams are an utter shambles, and yet they still manage to produce a national team who produce the goods consistently.

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:34 pm The problem with the Welsh comparison is that the Welsh teams are an utter shambles, and yet they still manage to produce a national team who produce the goods consistently.

Their player base though has been much higher. The fact that the regions have been underperforming embarrassments (save Scarlets for a few years) is separate and kinda proves a good ntl coach could pool from that larger resource.

I get the claim that Townsend has Sco underperforming, and I think that is true to some extent. I just don't think a Gatland has enough tools in the shed to pick from to replicate what Wal has achieved with Sco.

Thought this was a good read
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62027544

24 pts a game conceded and you are never winning anything.

Ironic the author's name is English!

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:04 pm Thought this was a good read
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62027544

24 pts a game conceded and you are never winning anything.

Ironic the author's name is English!

Especially given he's Irish

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:34 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:09 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:58 pm
There are six teams in the 6N and four of them are better than Scotland, much better, it has been shown in every 6N there has been, almost.
We are down the pecking order at the world cup too, we havn't toured New Zealand for decades because our result didn't merit it. We have had almost as many Lions as we've deserved since the game went professional.
That's where we are and it's okay.

That's what I'm saying, don't delude yourselves into thinking we are going to beat anyone, it all gets a bit Ally's Army in that case, just get behind the laddies and support them

This is spot on for me. With the level of resources Sco has, I think the expectations are too high. Especially after there are moments they punch above their own weight. The results of the Sco teams in the URC (a weak comp) don't lie and that Glasgow result at the season end v Leinster.....

For me (and I know I'm not an expert on Sco rugby politics), shafting the Borders was as fatal a blow to Sco as the WRU's killing off the Warriors and underfunding the Dragons in Wales.

As for the Arg game, something about Sco v Arg seems to predetermine them as error strewn messes which are decided by a score: often an error. FWIW, I had Arg by 5........... but then I had Eng to sneak it against Aus

The problem with the Welsh comparison is that the Welsh teams are an utter shambles, and yet they still manage to produce a national team who produce the goods consistently.

How many coaches did Scotland go thru, while Wales had the continuity of Gatland ?

The SRU fucked up when they dropped Cotter, for Townsend; it always felt at the time that it was too soon, after just the one League win, but it's understandable why the SRU, & Townsend reacted the way they did.

For Scotland, as with Ireland, it needs someone who can act without fear of pissing of friends, or allies, to come in & point out coaching that just isn't good enough, or that academies aren't making the most of their resources, or that traditional catchment areas are leading to some players not getting a fair shake, or whatever !

There aren't enough neutrals in Scotlands setup, & when they've had them in, they just weren't good enough e.g. Johnson, or Williams

It's understandable for any Union to want to have a coach who is also a National; but to get there they can't take short cuts, & that's what happened with Townsend. If you want to see what the career path looks like of a former player who will end up as the National coach looks like, just look at what O'Gara has done since he hung up his boots !

mos_eisely_ wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:48 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:04 pm Thought this was a good read
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62027544

24 pts a game conceded and you are never winning anything.

Ironic the author's name is English!

Especially given he's Irish

Bump

Here we go

What was this stadium designed for. Very odd looking shape.

Joke penalty. Didn't get his hands anywhere near it.

Defence looking good so far

Great finish.

Good try that

Kinghorn makes it, beautiful finish from VdM.

Also, and this is something we say very rarely, it came from a fabulous restart by Scotland.