Biffer wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:24 pm
Interesting Long Read in the Guardian about the memory of nuclear war
We’ve seen in other contexts what happens when our experience of a risk attenuates. In rich countries, the waning memory of preventable diseases has fed the anti-vaccination movement. “People have become complacent,” notes epidemiologist Peter Salk, whose father, Jonas Salk, invented the polio vaccine. Not having lived through a polio epidemic, parents are rejecting vaccines to the point where measles and whooping cough are coming back and many have needlessly died of Covid-19.
I'm very conscious of this. I'm 51, so was 18 when the cold war ended. My childhood and teenage years had an existential terror hanging over them. Anyone who's more than a few years younger than me doesn't remember that, and doesn't really realise what the overarching fear of nuclear war was during the cold war. I remember having regular nightmares about nuclear war when I was a kid, and I know many of my friends did as well. This worries me very much.
Sticking Threads on the Beeb some evening would give people a flavour of what we were afraid of in the 80s.
I remember Threads... I too used to have nightmares about nuclear bombs... and also Tsunamis... not sure why I was so scared of tsunamis... as this was well before 2004...
That would indicate that the pushback of Russia troops near kharkiv is actually near where the greatest density Russian forces are.
The great red splotch is probably Kupiansk.
See to be a bit west of Kupiansk, around Chuhuiv?
The Ukrainians retook Chuhuiv on March 7th.
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:53 pm
by Hellraiser
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:58 pm
by petej
Biffer wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:24 pm
Interesting Long Read in the Guardian about the memory of nuclear war
We’ve seen in other contexts what happens when our experience of a risk attenuates. In rich countries, the waning memory of preventable diseases has fed the anti-vaccination movement. “People have become complacent,” notes epidemiologist Peter Salk, whose father, Jonas Salk, invented the polio vaccine. Not having lived through a polio epidemic, parents are rejecting vaccines to the point where measles and whooping cough are coming back and many have needlessly died of Covid-19.
I'm very conscious of this. I'm 51, so was 18 when the cold war ended. My childhood and teenage years had an existential terror hanging over them. Anyone who's more than a few years younger than me doesn't remember that, and doesn't really realise what the overarching fear of nuclear war was during the cold war. I remember having regular nightmares about nuclear war when I was a kid, and I know many of my friends did as well. This worries me very much.
This is also why you don't get populists like trump, farage and Johnson until after the majority of the greatest generation are dead and those still alive voted for remain more than any other age group apart from 18-24.
I'm very conscious of this. I'm 51, so was 18 when the cold war ended. My childhood and teenage years had an existential terror hanging over them. Anyone who's more than a few years younger than me doesn't remember that, and doesn't really realise what the overarching fear of nuclear war was during the cold war. I remember having regular nightmares about nuclear war when I was a kid, and I know many of my friends did as well. This worries me very much.
Sticking Threads on the Beeb some evening would give people a flavour of what we were afraid of in the 80s.
I remember Threads... I too used to have nightmares about nuclear bombs... and also Tsunamis... not sure why I was so scared of tsunamis... as this was well before 2004...
I'm the same age as biffer and remember all of these fears vividly. That and quicksand, which really hasn't featured as much in my life as I thought it would.
Sticking Threads on the Beeb some evening would give people a flavour of what we were afraid of in the 80s.
I remember Threads... I too used to have nightmares about nuclear bombs... and also Tsunamis... not sure why I was so scared of tsunamis... as this was well before 2004...
I'm the same age as biffer and remember all of these fears vividly. That and quicksand, which really hasn't featured as much in my life as I thought it would.
quicksand with the tide coming in... you've just set up my next nightmare....
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 8:40 pm
by Hellraiser
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:16 pm
by Hellraiser
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:23 pm
by Hellraiser
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 2:30 am
by TheFrog
Some guys nursing some serious injuries in Azovstal. They must have some surgeons with them and a bit of medical material but how long can they last in these conditions?
I guess there is a way to supply them however, as they are still not running out of munitions, food or water. But can they not evacuate some people by the same routes?
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:58 am
by laurent
Unfortunately no more medical supplies and the underground hospitals are destroyed apparently.
They are dying of sepsis as far as report go (which is why they are desperate to get them out right now)
"The State Duma proposed to put Poland in line for denazification"
MOSCOW, May 13 - RIA Novosti.
The Polish leadership's statements about Russia "as a cancerous tumor" and about indemnities to Ukraine prompt the Russian Federation to "put it in line for denazification," said Oleg Morozov, chairman of the State Duma Committee on Control.
“By its statements about Russia as a “cancer tumor” and about the “indemnity” that we must pay to Ukraine , Poland encourages us to put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine,” Morozov wrote in his Telegram channel.
Earlier, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in a Telegraph column that he considers the Russian world "a cancer that poses a mortal threat to the whole of Europe", in his opinion, it needs to be "eradicated". Also, Polish President Andrzej Duda said that Russia would be forced to pay indemnity to Ukraine.
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 4:54 pm
by Rinkals
tabascoboy wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:53 pm
"The State Duma proposed to put Poland in line for denazification"
MOSCOW, May 13 - RIA Novosti.
The Polish leadership's statements about Russia "as a cancerous tumor" and about indemnities to Ukraine prompt the Russian Federation to "put it in line for denazification," said Oleg Morozov, chairman of the State Duma Committee on Control.
“By its statements about Russia as a “cancer tumor” and about the “indemnity” that we must pay to Ukraine , Poland encourages us to put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine,” Morozov wrote in his Telegram channel.
Earlier, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in a Telegraph column that he considers the Russian world "a cancer that poses a mortal threat to the whole of Europe", in his opinion, it needs to be "eradicated". Also, Polish President Andrzej Duda said that Russia would be forced to pay indemnity to Ukraine.
I don't think there was any doubt that, once Ukraine was incorporated into Russia, that Poland would be in the cross hairs, bearing in mind the possibility of linking up with Kaliningrad.
I still feel that Moldova would have been next on Putin's shopping list, because of the Transnistria issue and the fact that Moldova, unlike Poland, is not a member of NATO.
But, if Kyiv had've capitulated as Putin expected, his armies would have taken Chișinău next and I'm inclined to feel that Putin would have gambled that NATO would have been reluctant to defend Poland, forcing NATO to act and precipitating WWIII.
I think we owe the Ukrainian people a huge debt of gratitude. By their resistance, they have exposed the Russian Military Machine as a sham and knocked Putin's plans into a cocked hat.
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:09 pm
by fishfoodie
... and now he's going to end up with exactly the situation he didn't want, NATO from the Arctic Circle, to Crimea, & nuclear weapons on his doorstep, & an army that couldn't face down a girl scout troop
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:35 pm
by tabascoboy
More fires in Russia, this one and another at a pipe plant in Sverdlovsk. Russians need to be more careful with disposal of ciggy butts, or...
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:48 pm
by Hellraiser
Re: What's going on in Ukraine?
Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 6:14 pm
by TheFrog
fishfoodie wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 5:09 pm
... and now he's going to end up with exactly the situation he didn't want, NATO from the Arctic Circle, to Crimea, & nuclear weapons on his doorstep, & an army that couldn't face down a girl scout troop
Apparently Erdogan is stating publicly that he won't support Finland and Sweeden's bids...
fishfoodie wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 5:09 pm
... and now he's going to end up with exactly the situation he didn't want, NATO from the Arctic Circle, to Crimea, & nuclear weapons on his doorstep, & an army that couldn't face down a girl scout troop
Apparently Erdogan is stating publicly that he won't support Finland and Sweeden's bids...
But can he veto them?
And is that "he will actively oppose them" or he's just going to abstain a bit?
fishfoodie wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 5:09 pm
... and now he's going to end up with exactly the situation he didn't want, NATO from the Arctic Circle, to Crimea, & nuclear weapons on his doorstep, & an army that couldn't face down a girl scout troop
Apparently Erdogan is stating publicly that he won't support Finland and Sweeden's bids...
But can he veto them?
And is that "he will actively oppose them" or he's just going to abstain a bit?
He's having a hissy fit to get concessions about something.
fishfoodie wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 5:09 pm
... and now he's going to end up with exactly the situation he didn't want, NATO from the Arctic Circle, to Crimea, & nuclear weapons on his doorstep, & an army that couldn't face down a girl scout troop
Apparently Erdogan is stating publicly that he won't support Finland and Sweeden's bids...
But can he veto them?
And is that "he will actively oppose them" or he's just going to abstain a bit?
No idea about the NATO constitution. But as the French have consistently vetoed (actually simply obstructed) Turkish membership of the EU, Erdogan is probably just making a point.
Apparently Erdogan is stating publicly that he won't support Finland and Sweeden's bids...
But can he veto them?
And is that "he will actively oppose them" or he's just going to abstain a bit?
No idea about the NATO constitution. But as the French have consistently vetoed (actually simply obstructed) Turkish membership of the EU, Erdogan is probably just making a point.
The French are not the only ones (they don't meet admission criteria anyway)
tabascoboy wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:53 pm
"The State Duma proposed to put Poland in line for denazification"
MOSCOW, May 13 - RIA Novosti.
The Polish leadership's statements about Russia "as a cancerous tumor" and about indemnities to Ukraine prompt the Russian Federation to "put it in line for denazification," said Oleg Morozov, chairman of the State Duma Committee on Control.
“By its statements about Russia as a “cancer tumor” and about the “indemnity” that we must pay to Ukraine , Poland encourages us to put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine,” Morozov wrote in his Telegram channel.
Earlier, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in a Telegraph column that he considers the Russian world "a cancer that poses a mortal threat to the whole of Europe", in his opinion, it needs to be "eradicated". Also, Polish President Andrzej Duda said that Russia would be forced to pay indemnity to Ukraine.
I don't think there was any doubt that, once Ukraine was incorporated into Russia, that Poland would be in the cross hairs, bearing in mind the possibility of linking up with Kaliningrad.
I still feel that Moldova would have been next on Putin's shopping list, because of the Transnistria issue and the fact that Moldova, unlike Poland, is not a member of NATO.
But, if Kyiv had've capitulated as Putin expected, his armies would have taken Chișinău next and I'm inclined to feel that Putin would have gambled that NATO would have been reluctant to defend Poland, forcing NATO to act and precipitating WWIII.
I think we owe the Ukrainian people a huge debt of gratitude. By their resistance, they have exposed the Russian Military Machine as a sham and knocked Putin's plans into a cocked hat.
I'd guess that there was never any chance of that at all. What they're doing in Ukraine is completely in line with Russian policy over the last decade, but all this business about using nukes and attacking NATO countries is just posturing.
I hope, anyway.
