The Rugby Championship - W2 - 15 July : NZ v SA / Aus v Rg

[Gumboot]

Just read Frans Steyn has just retired too.

Legend !

How did he only end up with 76 caps? Just checked his wiki page.

Our prodigal son... should have been a test centurion, made himself unavailable for some years, had some run ins with coaches, bit of hard luck with injuries. Yet still manged to win 2 RWCs and 2 Lions series. Massive talent.

Yep, an extraordinarily gifted player who had a long and colourful career. Respect.

[Ymx]

Just read Frans Steyn has just retired too.

Legend !

How did he only end up with 76 caps? Just checked his wiki page.

Our prodigal son... should have been a test centurion, made himself unavailable for some years, had some run ins with coaches, bit of hard luck with injuries. Yet still manged to win 2 RWCs and 2 Lions series. Massive talent.

2 world cups and 2 lions series is a fricken amazing set of credentials

[OomStruisbaai]

Just read Frans Steyn has just retired too.

Legend !

How did he only end up with 76 caps? Just checked his wiki page.

Our prodigal son... should have been a test centurion, made himself unavailable for some years, had some run ins with coaches, bit of hard luck with injuries. Yet still manged to win 2 RWCs and 2 Lions series. Massive talent.

SARS money if I remember correctly. He break from 2012 (Heyneke Meyer) - 2017 (Alistair Coetzee). I use to call him a spoiled brat because he alway had that tantrums , look like a teenager in his younger days. Since he joined the Cheetahs he has been outstanding for them. Sadly miss this WC tournament. What an achivement it would have been to be a 3 time WC winner.

[Grandpa]

The only truly dominant sides I remember in my lifetime... are the All Blacks of the late 80s, Australia in the late 90's, early 2000s. South Africa 2007/2008 and The All Blacks of 2011 to 2015. That's it.

Mate, we beat the Boks 4 games out of 5 in 2007-2008, and only lost by 2 points in Dunedin in '08. We also beat them 19-0 in Cape Town that year.

The following year, 2009, was a completely different story. They beat us 3-0, with the brilliant Fourie du Preez box-kicking our outside backs into submission, and Frans Steyn nailing 50-metre goal kicks for fun. We were out-thought and out-played by a very good Boks side. Mind you, it wasn't the greatest of ABs sides that year. Rokocoko was stupidly moved to the right wing to accommodate Sivivatu at 11, and his form fell off a cliff. And we had Isaac Ross at lock, who was mostly useless in the tight.

2009 that was it! Actually you're right 2007 and 2008 SA were poor in the Trinations... funny how memory distorts things... maybe that Bok side wasn't as dominant as I remember... will swap it for the 1998 one...

[Grandpa]

For Saffers, they’re actually a pretty decent bunch.

Either way, they are our cross to bear for volunteering to move to this new forum.

Raggs is English though, isn’t he.

So Raggs was trolling? Naughty boy!

Weather looks good for Saturday. No rain about. Be interesting to see what the Bok game plan is like with Willemse at 10.

Raggs sticks by what he says. That the players are exceptionally good, with fantastic depth. That's not the same as the team being well coached or achieving a lot, but this SA bunch have the potential to go far.

Potential I'll agree with... but saying best in history is a bit presumptuous.. lets see what happens over the next year or two first..

[boere wors]

Just read Frans Steyn has just retired too.

Legend !

How did he only end up with 76 caps? Just checked his wiki page.

Our prodigal son... should have been a test centurion, made himself unavailable for some years, had some run ins with coaches, bit of hard luck with injuries. Yet still manged to win 2 RWCs and 2 Lions series. Massive talent.

SARS money if I remember correctly. He break from 2012 (Heyneke Meyer) - 2017 (Alistair Coetzee). I use to call him a spoiled brat because he alway had that tantrums , look like a teenager in his younger days. Since he joined the Cheetahs he has been outstanding for them. Sadly miss this WC tournament. What an achivement it would have been to be a 3 time WC winner.

Yep, had a run in with SARU as well. He has said so himself in interviews lately that he sometimes should have better kept his mouth shut. Certainly seemed like a spoiled brat at times. Unfortunately missed all the test rugby in his prime.

[Guy Smiley]

Just read Frans Steyn has just retired too.

Legend !

How did he only end up with 76 caps? Just checked his wiki page.

Our prodigal son... should have been a test centurion, made himself unavailable for some years, had some run ins with coaches, bit of hard luck with injuries. Yet still manged to win 2 RWCs and 2 Lions series. Massive talent.

SARS money if I remember correctly. He break from 2012 (Heyneke Meyer) - 2017 (Alistair Coetzee). I use to call him a spoiled brat because he alway had that tantrums , look like a teenager in his younger days. Since he joined the Cheetahs he has been outstanding for them. Sadly miss this WC tournament. What an achivement it would have been to be a 3 time WC winner.

There it is folks...

#massivechoke

if the Boks don't win. You heard it here, first. Back to you in the studio, Oom.

[Sandstorm]

[average joe]

In his younger days, he was a teenager. Capped at 19.

[Sandstorm]

In his younger days, he was a teenager.

Me too

[Guy Smiley]

In his younger days, he was a teenager.

Me too

Miraculous, so was I.

Are we all potential Three Time RWC winners?

[Sandstorm]

In his younger days, he was a teenager.

Me too

Miraculous, so was I.

Are we all potential Three Time RWC winners?

I got two. Then my liver gave out.

[Guy Smiley]

[Sards]

So Raggs was trolling? Naughty boy!

Weather looks good for Saturday. No rain about. Be interesting to see what the Bok game plan is like with Willemse at 10.

Raggs sticks by what he says. That the players are exceptionally good, with fantastic depth. That's not the same as the team being well coached or achieving a lot, but this SA bunch have the potential to go far.

Potential I'll agree with... but saying best in history is a bit presumptuous.. lets see what happens over the next year or two first..

Only as good as your last result. This " A " team is untested. Could be a complete vokop

[OomStruisbaai]

In his younger days, he was a teenager.

Me too

Miraculous, so was I.

Are we all potential Three Time RWC winners?

Guy were you spoiled?

[Sandstorm]

Only as good as your last result. This " A " team is untested. Could be a complete vokop

I called Willemse @ 10 on Monday. You happy with his selection there?

[average joe]

He'll never be happy. Regte ou moan gat.

[OomStruisbaai]

If Willemse play well = Sards was on the road.
If Willemse make a mistake = Sards posting on the thread.

Myself will always be worried about him and Libbok in 10 and Willie in 15 specially against the All Blacks nevermind in NZ.

[Sandstorm]

If Willemse play well = Sards was on the road.
If Willemse make a mistake = Sards posting on the thread.

[Grandpa]

Libbok looks like he has potential. Would you guys be happy with him starting? Or not ready?

[LoveOfTheGame]

If Willemse play well = Sards was on the road.
If Willemse make a mistake = Sards posting on the thread.

Myself will always be worried about him and Libbok in 10 and Willie in 15 specially against the All Blacks nevermind in NZ.

Sards is a picture perfect fair weather fan. When the $hark$ played kak, he was always "away" and could not watch the game. But when they were putting good performances in the CC he was all over those threads. But when they eventually lost, so did his interest. The only thing that really gets Sards motivated is Oom/Stormers/Wp. It's all he cares about. Really. Ok and maybe Willemse and Libbok.

[Guy Smiley]

Me too

Miraculous, so was I.

Are we all potential Three Time RWC winners?

Guy were you spoiled?

Only by a close brush with fame and success but I made it through unscathed.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Libbok looks like he has potential. Would you guys be happy with him starting? Or not ready?

Off the bench for now. He is a better Flyhalf than Willemse, but he does have confidence issues in high pressure games. So, I think Nienaber made the right decision.

[Sandstorm]

Libbok looks like he has potential. Would you guys be happy with him starting? Or not ready?

Off the bench for now. He is a better Flyhalf than Willemse, but he does have confidence issues in high pressure games. So, I think Nienaber made the right decision.

I love him. He's a proper running 10. His kicking is a bit ropey, especially down the touchline.

But he's our X-factor player and when he clicks, we'll score 6 tries against anyone.

[boere wors]

Libbok looks like he has potential. Would you guys be happy with him starting? Or not ready?

Off the bench for now. He is a better Flyhalf than Willemse, but he does have confidence issues in high pressure games. So, I think Nienaber made the right decision.

He is the incumbent 10 at the Stormers before Willemse, yet at Test Level it is the other way around?! You can only build confidence if you are trusted to do so.

[OomStruisbaai]

Libbok looks like he has potential. Would you guys be happy with him starting? Or not ready?

Off the bench for now. He is a better Flyhalf than Willemse, but he does have confidence issues in high pressure games. So, I think Nienaber made the right decision.

Willemse played all his rugby as 10 in his Paul Roos days. His defense/distribution/stepping is excellent. Like Libbok his kicking is the problem. To have them in 10/12 is even better add Willie in 15, then its an over risk but fuck me if they get it right, the backline will transform from bore to moers exciting.

[_Os_]

I will be mocked for this post.

I have decided Libbok isn't consistent enough for a starting XV spot and I'm not that convinced about a 23 spot. Willemse has looked better at 12 since early on to me, but is more talented and consistent than Libbok so if it's between those two should get the 10 jersey. And now for the controversial part, Boeta Chamberlain is a better option than both at 10. Better than both with the boot and using it to position the side around the park, more consistent performances, able to switch between 10 and 15 like Libbok and Willemse, no worse on defence, less flair than both and less attempts at miraculous stuff (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). He reminds me of Peter Grant, he wasn't a player to fear but you absolutely knew he would do everything to capitalise on every bit of potential his team had, and there would be no way of unsettling him as he did that. A rock like that at 10 becomes dangerous in a strong side.

Too late to get him into the mix, but I would be more confident with Chamberlain on a few caps and starting at 10.

If it all goes our way, or enough goes our way, then Willemse will do huge damage. But if it doesn't then there's a chance he goes missing.

[Grandpa]

So is Libbock a bit like Damian McKenzie? Unpredictable? Brilliant but also prone to harem scarem moments?

I have only seen him playing for the Boks so don't know much about him.

[boere wors]

Willemse doesnt play 10 for his franchise/club, why would you play him there at test level?

[LoveOfTheGame]

I will be mocked for this post.

I have decided Libbok isn't consistent enough for a starting XV spot and I'm not that convinced about a 23 spot. Willemse has looked better at 12 since early on to me, but is more talented and consistent than Libbok so if it's between those two should get the 10 jersey. And now for the controversial part, Boeta Chamberlain is a better option than both at 10. Better than both with the boot and using it to position the side around the park, more consistent performances, able to switch between 10 and 15 like Libbok and Willemse, no worse on defence, less flair than both and less attempts at miraculous stuff (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). He reminds me of Peter Grant, he wasn't a player to fear but you absolutely knew he would do everything to capitalise on every bit of potential his team had, and there would be no way of unsettling him as he did that. A rock like that at 10 becomes dangerous in a strong side.

Too late to get him into the mix, but I would be more confident with Chamberlain on a few caps and starting at 10.

If it all goes our way, or enough goes our way, then Willemse will do huge damage. But if it doesn't then there's a chance he goes missing.

Boeta Chamberlain. Ox, what the actual fuck.

[assfly]

Ox has chosen his hill to die on.

[Sandstorm]

So is Libbock a bit like Damian McKenzie? Unpredictable? Brilliant but also prone to harem scarem moments?

I have only seen him playing for the Boks so don't know much about him.

Yes, very similar.

[Sandstorm]

Ox has chosen his hill to die on.

It's a well, not a hill. Loon.

Boeta would probably have been ok in 2007 against England in the final. Butch style reliable. With FDP at 9 and Percy at 15.

These days against Ireland, France, ABs....with our scatty 9s? Fuck. Off.

[OomStruisbaai]

Ox has chosen his hill to die on.

It's a well, not a hill. Loon.

Boeta would probably have been ok in 2007 against England in the final. Butch style reliable. With FDP at 9 and Percy at 15.

These days against Ireland, France, ABs....with our scatty 9s? Fuck. Off.

Is Boeta reliable? Reliable doing fuck all, weak defensively, weak kicking, weak everything. At least Bosch is reliable kicking.

[Sandstorm]

Ox has chosen his hill to die on.

It's a well, not a hill. Loon.

Boeta would probably have been ok in 2007 against England in the final. Butch style reliable. With FDP at 9 and Percy at 15.

These days against Ireland, France, ABs....with our scatty 9s? Fuck. Off.

Is Boeta reliable? Reliable doing fuck all, weak defensively, weak kicking, weak everything. At least Bosch is reliable kicking.

I'm trying to help Ox here. Although I suspect he's trolling with C4.....

[LoveOfTheGame]

It's a well, not a hill. Loon.

Boeta would probably have been ok in 2007 against England in the final. Butch style reliable. With FDP at 9 and Percy at 15.

These days against Ireland, France, ABs....with our scatty 9s? Fuck. Off.

Is Boeta reliable? Reliable doing fuck all, weak defensively, weak kicking, weak everything. At least Bosch is reliable kicking.

I'm trying to help Ox here. Although I suspect he's trolling with C4.....

I suspect you're right. Who can forget his passionate support for Cameron Wright. Through thick and thin, a Sharks man through and through our Ox.

[_Os_]

Ox has chosen his hill to die on.

Remember they say they didn't want Bosch because he's inconsistent in their view. They win nothing in the domestic season, but now believe they have both the starting and the 2nd choice flyhalf. Now suddenly Boeta being more steady and consistent than their two erratic players is a bad thing.

It's almost like they start from the conclusion "never rate Sharks players" then work backwards to make the analysis fit. "No not Bosch he's talented but not consistent at 10 we need someone who never makes errors because they never try anything like Morne Steyn, yes pick Libbok he can be brilliant when he turns up, yes pick Willemse if everything goes right he's excellent, no not Boeta you fucking loon he's a consistent steady hand we need crazy inconsistent flair players at 10 running our game and if they have a bad match we pretend it never happened then don't even qualify for the Currie Cup semis".

[average joe]

Etzebeths father passed away. He might not play.

[assfly]

Remember they say they didn't want Bosch because he's inconsistent in their view. They win nothing in the domestic season, but now believe they have both the starting and the 2nd choice flyhalf. Now suddenly Boeta being more steady and consistent than their two erratic players is a bad thing.

It's almost like they start from the conclusion "never rate Sharks players" then work backwards to make the analysis fit. "No not Bosch he's talented but not consistent at 10 we need someone who never makes errors because they never try anything like Morne Steyn, yes pick Libbok he can be brilliant when he turns up, yes pick Willemse if everything goes right he's excellent, no not Boeta you fucking loon he's a consistent steady hand we need crazy inconsistent flair players at 10 running our game and if they have a bad match we pretend it never happened then don't even qualify for the Currie Cup semis".

I like Boeta but I wouldn't call him consistent. He went off the boil in the last part of the URC season, and he played most of the season at 15.

[_Os_]

Who can forget his passionate support for Cameron Wright.

SS doesn't have to worry about a true yster like him at 9, all the wobbly 9s he wanted have been selected.

All we can do is support Herschel Jantjies on his way to 100 test caps through perpetual inclusion in the Bok squad, indeed it is our duty. He once scored a try in a test match years ago and is from the Cape, so it is his right to always be selected. Clearly a lowly Sharks player couldn't possibly be mentally and physically tougher. And as SS said, because "scatty" Herschel is selected in the squad this means Boeta must watch on TV. This also means you need a "scatty" 10 to partner the "scatty" 9 and they must all be from the glorious Cape.