NPR

Sitting in aircraft, at Heathrow, hoping for updates from you guys.

TheNatalShark wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:25 pm

Bloutoria wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:24 pmIs Eben OK?

Walked off in discomfort

The Welsh pain and shame will be worse

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:22 pm At what point is a dominant scrum a safety issue?

TheNatalShark wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:19 pm How is the ref not getting these tackles in the air right, right in front of him.

It's Dickson, he's shite. His elevation to this level is an absolute mystery.

Gatland picks a young lad who doesn’t start in the Premiership against the most dominant scrum in the world and ends up having to sub him off after half an hour - what on earth was he expecting to happen?

Wales try just before HT should lift them. Jaden Hendricks service is slow.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:28 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:22 pm At what point is a dominant scrum a safety issue?

TheNatalShark wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:19 pm How is the ref not getting these tackles in the air right, right in front of him.

It's Dickson, he's shite. His elevation to this level is an absolute mystery.

Gatland picks a young lad who doesn’t start in the Premiership against the most dominant scrum in the world and ends up having to sub him off after half an hour - what on earth was he expecting to happen?

Like you said, he could well spoil some careers with these selections. Griffin will have gotten precious little out of this cap.

26-5 ht

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:33 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:28 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:22 pm At what point is a dominant scrum a safety issue?



It's Dickson, he's shite. His elevation to this level is an absolute mystery.

Gatland picks a young lad who doesn’t start in the Premiership against the most dominant scrum in the world and ends up having to sub him off after half an hour - what on earth was he expecting to happen?

Like you said, he could well spoil some careers with these selections. Griffin will have gotten precious little out of this cap.

Quite
Though I’d like to be a fly on the wall at Bath training next week

TheNatalShark wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:25 pm

Bloutoria wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:24 pmIs Eben OK?

Walked off in discomfort

Damn. We won't see him at the Sharks for awhile now

Wales even more sh*t than this strip.

Are the Saffers the only team that don't celebrate scrum penalties?

Need more Ben Earl and Andrew Porter.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:47 pm Wales even more sh*t than this strip.

They've actually been doing okay for the last 20 minutes.

Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:54 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:47 pm Wales even more sh*t than this strip.

They've actually been doing okay for the last 20 minutes.

They’ve shown a lot more fight but the Boks blew I reckon 3 or 4 cast iron chances in that period being wasteful.


The kit reminds me of a Balkans team that has unexpectedly made the Euros

Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:54 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:47 pm Wales even more sh*t than this strip.

They've actually been doing okay for the last 20 minutes.

Oops

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:33 pm Wales try just before HT should lift them. Jaden Hendricks service is slow.

Both half backs have been a bit shit

How much are the WRU on the hook for if they sack Gatland?

Is sacking Gatland going to make much a difference? Apart from Morgan there doesn't seem to be much quality in the side.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:00 pm

Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:54 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:47 pm Wales even more sh*t than this strip.

They've actually been doing okay for the last 20 minutes.

They’ve shown a lot more fight but the Boks blew I reckon 3 or 4 cast iron chances in that period being wasteful.


The kit reminds me of a Balkans team that has unexpectedly made the Euros

Why are they playing in white anyway?

sturginho wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:00 pm

Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:54 pm

They've actually been doing okay for the last 20 minutes.

They’ve shown a lot more fight but the Boks blew I reckon 3 or 4 cast iron chances in that period being wasteful.


The kit reminds me of a Balkans team that has unexpectedly made the Euros

Why are they playing in white anyway?

Red/green colour blind thing I think

Jim Lahey wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:02 pm How much are the WRU on the hook for if they sack Gatland?

Is sacking Gatland going to make much a difference? Apart from Morgan there doesn't seem to be much quality in the side.

Would you declare for Wales on the form of the last few years ?

I know it’s an honour, and all that, but with this squad, not so much

"Flanker in the front row". What the fuck is he talking about. I've watched it again and nothing like that to be seen.

Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:08 pm "Flanker in the front row". What the fuck is he talking about. I've watched it again and nothing like that to be seen.

Pmsl

Good plan this by Wales. Losing by a mile and put in near 200 tackles so they opt to kick the ball away aimessly.

So Wales get dicked by 30+ points for their 12th straight loss, and the commentators are talking about their "character" and "resilience"... WTF?

Franco need to concentrate very hard to understand the Wales lady commentator.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:34 pm Franco need to concentrate very hard to understand the Wales lady commentator.

Now Kolisi aswell.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:20 pm Good plan this by Wales. Losing by a mile and put in near 200 tackles so they opt to kick the ball away aimessly.

The RWC was a strong indicator the kick possession away and defend style is now very risky, should only be attempted by sides which are exceptional and even they should expect a close match. The Boks have decided it's not the best way to play the percentages at the moment, brave coach that decides the Boks are wrong and it's still valid.

If Gatland only knows this way and rocks up in 6N doing this they lose every match.

_Os_ wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:48 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:20 pm Good plan this by Wales. Losing by a mile and put in near 200 tackles so they opt to kick the ball away aimessly.

The RWC was a strong indicator the kick possession away and defend style is now very risky, should only be attempted by sides which are exceptional and even they should expect a close match. The Boks have decided it's not the best way to play the percentages at the moment, brave coach that decides the Boks are wrong and it's still valid.

If Gatland only knows this way and rocks up in 6N doing this they lose every match.

One of the things with Pivac is I felt he did better than Gatland against SA and Australia because Wales didn't just relentlessly kick the ball back to the opposition.

_Os_ wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 11:52 am Rio Dyer is also rated I suspect, he's the standout Dragons back.

He showed some speed and scored, is recognised by South Africans as decent. There was a stat pre-match about the times he has been on the winning side playing for the Dragons and Wales, it was an astonishing amount of losses punctuated by the odd Wales derby win. This entire calendar year he played in the close win over Ospreys in September, close Wales win against the Queensland Reds in July, and the close win against Zebre in March. Those are the only times he was on the winning side this year out of all the Dragons and Wales matches he has played. I cannot remember his stats for last year but it's not hugely different.

Even if a player has some quality, perpetually being on the losing side cannot be helping their development.

Another pre-match stat I saw (from Squidge) was that Scotland funds its 2 URC sides more than Wales does its 4 URC sides. Sounds outlandish, but the performances certainly aren't disproving it.

_Os_ wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 8:24 pm

_Os_ wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 11:52 am Rio Dyer is also rated I suspect, he's the standout Dragons back.

He showed some speed and scored, is recognised by South Africans as decent. There was a stat pre-match about the times he has been on the winning side playing for the Dragons and Wales, it was an astonishing amount of losses punctuated by the odd Wales derby win. This entire calendar year he played in the close win over Ospreys in September, close Wales win against the Queensland Reds in July, and the close win against Zebre in March. Those are the only times he was on the winning side this year out of all the Dragons and Wales matches he has played. I cannot remember his stats for last year but it's not hugely different.

Even if a player has some quality, perpetually being on the losing side cannot be helping their development.

Another pre-match stat I saw (from Squidge) was that Scotland funds its 2 URC sides more than Wales does its 4 URC sides. Sounds outlandish, but the performances certainly aren't disproving it.

Those figures for Scottish and Welsh teams aren't directly comparable because Edinburgh and Glasgow don't exist as separate entities financially whereas the Welsh sides do. For example every penny of income Edinburgh and Glasgow generate from ticket revenue and sponsorship is in the SRU's accounts as income and is then spent on the pro teams. That's not the case for the Welsh sides.l

petej wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:55 pm

_Os_ wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:48 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:20 pm Good plan this by Wales. Losing by a mile and put in near 200 tackles so they opt to kick the ball away aimessly.

The RWC was a strong indicator the kick possession away and defend style is now very risky, should only be attempted by sides which are exceptional and even they should expect a close match. The Boks have decided it's not the best way to play the percentages at the moment, brave coach that decides the Boks are wrong and it's still valid.

If Gatland only knows this way and rocks up in 6N doing this they lose every match.

One of the things with Pivac is I felt he did better than Gatland against SA and Australia because Wales didn't just relentlessly kick the ball back to the opposition.

Some of the stuff Gatland is doing is very odd imo, I think he's part of the problem but not all of it. the bigger problem looks like the structure of Welsh rugby isn't working, new-ish test players should not be as raw as the Welsh are.

When Rassie took over the Boks in 2018 after the disaster of HM and then AC, that first season was bookended by losses to Wales. In the USA with an XV that had 7 uncapped players and 134 caps in total, and Cardiff with a side that now looks fully loaded (but back then had 445 caps in the XV and a lot of players on around 30 or less). Wales were strong at the time and the Boks were rebuilding, a lot of the Bok players from that time are still around but for Wales they're almost all gone. Point is the matches were quite close (certainly closer than recent Wales v Bok matches), and a lot of those Bok players are highly rated now. Wales should be in roughly the same position as the Boks were back in 2018, but they're not, and I don't think it's because Wales suddenly cannot produce rugby players.

topofthemoon wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 9:16 pm

_Os_ wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 8:24 pm

_Os_ wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 11:52 am Rio Dyer is also rated I suspect, he's the standout Dragons back.

He showed some speed and scored, is recognised by South Africans as decent. There was a stat pre-match about the times he has been on the winning side playing for the Dragons and Wales, it was an astonishing amount of losses punctuated by the odd Wales derby win. This entire calendar year he played in the close win over Ospreys in September, close Wales win against the Queensland Reds in July, and the close win against Zebre in March. Those are the only times he was on the winning side this year out of all the Dragons and Wales matches he has played. I cannot remember his stats for last year but it's not hugely different.

Even if a player has some quality, perpetually being on the losing side cannot be helping their development.

Another pre-match stat I saw (from Squidge) was that Scotland funds its 2 URC sides more than Wales does its 4 URC sides. Sounds outlandish, but the performances certainly aren't disproving it.

Those figures for Scottish and Welsh teams aren't directly comparable because Edinburgh and Glasgow don't exist as separate entities financially whereas the Welsh sides do. For example every penny of income Edinburgh and Glasgow generate from ticket revenue and sponsorship is in the SRU's accounts as income and is then spent on the pro teams. That's not the case for the Welsh sides.l

That makes more sense, thanks. So the Welsh URC sides have ticket/sponsorship/merchandise revenue that isn't in WRU accounts, I wonder where that gets them in comparison to the other URC sides.

My suspicion is a large part of Welsh problems are located in the URC sides off the field. Basically substandard coaching. Was watching the dragons play an SA side, thought they're not as rubbish in every aspect as people say but their attack is appalling, went on their site and started digging into their coaching setup. They did not have an attack coach, then had a player/coach in the role, then had that same player as attack coach when he stopped playing this season. It's not really saying high performance. People may dismiss that as "it's just the Dragons", but that's the same Dragons their best attacking back today (Dyer) is playing for.

Jim Lahey wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:02 pm How much are the WRU on the hook for if they sack Gatland?

Is sacking Gatland going to make much a difference? Apart from Morgan there doesn't seem to be much quality in the side.

When he came back, he signed a contract through the 2023 World Cup with an option to extend to the 2027 WC. So presumably they’d be on the hook for another three years.

_Os_ wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:48 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:20 pm Good plan this by Wales. Losing by a mile and put in near 200 tackles so they opt to kick the ball away aimessly.

The RWC was a strong indicator the kick possession away and defend style is now very risky, should only be attempted by sides which are exceptional and even they should expect a close match. The Boks have decided it's not the best way to play the percentages at the moment, brave coach that decides the Boks are wrong and it's still valid.

If Gatland only knows this way and rocks up in 6N doing this they lose every match.

Agreed. Massively brave to change decades of traditional rugby style too.