England v Japan

[JM2K6]

LCD butchers another late game attacking lineout.

Austin wants England to play Marcus at fullback moving forward thanks to Fin's nice touches in this shellacking. Hmmmmm.

I'm sure no teams would target high balls. Why has Austin become a parody.

Has been for years. He wants to be the one setting the conversation every time.

[ASMO]

Well we learned nothing new from that, Slade is still shit, even when England are winning by a country mile

[Hal Jordan]

I wonder how The Walrus will frame his line of attack against Marcus Smith this week.

[petej]

LCD butchers another late game attacking lineout.

Austin wants England to play Marcus at fullback moving forward thanks to Fin's nice touches in this shellacking. Hmmmmm.

I'm sure no teams would target high balls. Why has Austin become a parody.

Has been for years. He wants to be the one setting the conversation every time.

Not that he's incapable of astute analysis but like most things it is all about generating reactions and clicks. Rugby hasn't quite got the podcasts and similar that football has where you can go and get decent analysis easily.

[JM2K6]

I wonder how The Walrus will frame his line of attack against Marcus Smith this week.

Well, in the Sunday papers he absolutely slaughtered him already, saying that the backs don't function with him, he makes basic errors, is a poor defender, a bad kicker, can't close out games, and that Saint Owen would've won two of the previous losses at least. He's also demanded that essentially any other ten in the country replace him, including Charlie fucking Atkinson. It is beyond pathetic at this point

The funny thing is he's probably going to get his wish. I don't think it's at all coincidental that in the last week various media types have started talking up Fin as being the guy to unlock the attack while Marcus stands accused of not getting anything out of his backs. Charlie Morgan did it, Austin alluded to it and demanded Marcus move to 15 permanently, Kay saw one pass from both players and decided there was a significant difference between the two, Greenwood is talking up a change...

I'm pleased that Fin finally had a decent showing off the bench, because being charitable he's been a bit disappointing in his attempts before now, and he is unquestionably a fine player with a lot going for him. I would caveat this display by saying that it came off the back of the momentum generated by all the subs, most particularly getting rid of JvP and Slade, that Roebuck's try came from a bit of a skewed kick, and that he missed a penalty to touch, but most importantly that it was fucking Japan and we'd already put a mountain of points on them, same as over the summer. At least when there was a media wave for Marcus when he was first an option, it came off his heroics against New Zealand in a match we were losing badly and followed up with that win over SA. This seems desperate in comparison.

It's incredibly frustrating and aggravating as a fan of both players to see what should be an exciting battle between two talented players play out this way, where the most senior writer in the country has a genuine vendetta against one of them and the other controversy-hunting media types are all too happy to fan the flames.

The fact remains that Fin should've never lost that spot to ford, and that it was a nonsense that Ford was parachuted in off no fitness this autumn. A coach worth their salt would have given Fin the chance to start this game with a few more players deserving of the same, and we'd have learned a lot more as a result.

The only good news from my pov is that if Marcus does lose out, I think he's an extremely potent weapon to have on the bench and I think Fin would do a fine job. But fuck me we are badly served by the media in this country, and worse served by Borthwick.

Edit: you only have to look at the replies to this to see how many people are parroting the commentators from yesterday

https://x.com/CharlieFelix/status/18609 ... d_1Mg&s=19

[sockwithaticket]

I wonder how The Walrus will frame his line of attack against Marcus Smith this week.

The funny thing is he's probably going to get his wish. I don't think it's at all coincidental that in the last week various media types have started talking up Fin as being the guy to unlock the attack while Marcus stands accused of not getting anything out of his backs. Charlie Morgan did it, Austin alluded to it and demanded Marcus move to 15 permanently, Kay saw one pass from both players and decided there was a significant difference between the two, Greenwood is talking up a change...

https://x.com/CharlieFelix/status/18609 ... d_1Mg&s=19

As I tend to ignore most of what passes for rugby media and mostly tune out commentators now, I'd missed this swell of opinion. Absolutely mad.

If we must single out one back forour failings, Slade is right fucking there.

As it is, most of our issues quite clearly stem from coaching rather than personnel and where there are a few problems with the latter, not one of them is resolved by dropping Smith or moving him to fullback.

[JM2K6]

Yup, he's not a fullback despite his decent attempt at showing Mike Brown tackling skills yesterday

Realistically we should have come out of these matches with the following:

- Lozowski or Dingwall given time to offer an alternative to Slade
- Fin given a start in at least one match, preferably a properly competitive one
- Dombrandt given at least one start in a "last chance" scenario
- Tom Willis given game time as the heir apparent
- Langdon or Oghre (or both) given the Japan game
- Ted Hill given a chance

George had a great game against Japan and that was good to see, but seriously how much did we learn?

[petej]

Yup, he's not a fullback despite his decent attempt at showing Mike Brown tackling skills yesterday

Realistically we should have come out of these matches with the following:

- Lozowski or Dingwall given time to offer an alternative to Slade
- Fin given a start in at least one match, preferably a properly competitive one
- Dombrandt given at least one start in a "last chance" scenario
- Tom Willis given game time as the heir apparent
- Langdon or Oghre (or both) given the Japan game
- Ted Hill given a chance

George had a great game against Japan and that was good to see, but seriously how much did we learn?

It is bizarre to be attacking M.Smith. I think his decision making has been excellent and has definitely improved. Also he has put in some good cover tackles.

We've scored plenty this autumn. The attack is far less of problem than the defence which has been shit.

Edit: another positive for M.Smith is his goal kicking seems to be more reliable.

[SaintK]

Yup, he's not a fullback despite his decent attempt at showing Mike Brown tackling skills yesterday

Realistically we should have come out of these matches with the following:

- Lozowski or Dingwall given time to offer an alternative to Slade
- Fin given a start in at least one match, preferably a properly competitive one
- Dombrandt given at least one start in a "last chance" scenario
- Tom Willis given game time as the heir apparent
- Langdon or Oghre (or both) given the Japan game
- Ted Hill given a chance

George had a great game against Japan and that was good to see, but seriously how much did we learn?

Pretty much this.
TBH I don't think Dombrandt is going to make it as an international No8 even with one more chance. Similarly Isieweke was a waste a cap for someone else
Would have liked to have seen Smith F playing alongside his club back 3 for more than a few minutes
Yes should have definitely rested Curry against Japan to give Hill a run out.

[JM2K6]

Yup, he's not a fullback despite his decent attempt at showing Mike Brown tackling skills yesterday

Realistically we should have come out of these matches with the following:

- Lozowski or Dingwall given time to offer an alternative to Slade
- Fin given a start in at least one match, preferably a properly competitive one
- Dombrandt given at least one start in a "last chance" scenario
- Tom Willis given game time as the heir apparent
- Langdon or Oghre (or both) given the Japan game
- Ted Hill given a chance

George had a great game against Japan and that was good to see, but seriously how much did we learn?

Pretty much this.
TBH I don't think Dombrandt is going to make it as an international No8 even with one more chance. Similarly Isieweke was a waste a cap for someone else
Would have liked to have seen Smith F playing alongside his club back 3 for more than a few minutes
Yes should have definitely rested Curry against Japan to give Hill a run out.

With Dombrandt it was just a case of giving him a chance to do something from the start while making it clear this was his last opportunity. He's been very subdued and that has never been his problem at international level. It's like he's just been told to go and tackle.

I have some doubts over Willis because I think his game revolves around always being the primary carrier, and he often carries into trouble and gets munched backwards, but he carries so often that it's still a real challenge to face and eventually a few of those carries are really high impact. I don't know if he's a lineout option and he's decent in defence and over the ball, it's more about whether his preferred style is going to fit; what happens when he's expected to only make 5-10 carries per game and we spend more time giving the ball to CCS and Earl, basically. But we have to reward consistent form and we've known for years that he was going to be a viable international candidate.

[JM2K6]

Also CCS had his second poor game in a row and he can't be considered a live starting option until he can go the full 80 imo

[inactionman]

I'd normally be pushing Barbeary as an option but he's been very subdued for Bath this season.

Mad that Ted Hill didn't get a runout in the backrow though. To keep dragging him into the 36 only to then discard him doesn't strike me as great man management.

[JM2K6]

I am shocked that the guy who dropped Spencer and Furbank entirely for no good reason might be bad at man management

[inactionman]

I am shocked that the guy who dropped Spencer and Furbank entirely for no good reason might be bad at man management

I think we all get that, although I've no problems with rotating squads per se.

Not giving in-form players a shot is a bit Eddie-ish.