NPR

In Nairobi today there was a peaceful anti-femicide march in town, mostly women. It was promptly shut down and tear-gassed by the police, mostly men.

epwc wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 9:01 pm Untitled.jpg

Well, this is going to make some of you feel very uneasy. This compares 2011 to 2021 census. Trends? Muslims are taking over! I didn't expect an increase or at least such a big increase in Tower Hamlets, but as you can see the muslim population in the outer boroughs is increasing at a faster rate. I couldn't see how to extract data for Bangladeshi, it looked like all I could get was British Asian.

I know that there are a lot of Afghans now in London, plenty of Kurds working in all the Turkish restaurants and barbershops plus more africans. But I can't give you any evidence on that.

If anyone knows how to get the data regarding Bangladeshis specifically I'm happy to do the analysis

Do you have the overall population figures in each area to put alongside those?

epwc wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 10:59 am Well that killed the thread

What are you trying to achieve or look for as a response ?
Over a decade it’s not really a huge increase compared to some parts of Germany , Sweden , Belgium…

Nature seems to be taking its course though and Muslim birth rates are falling* so am sure it will all be fine in the end. It should be of no surprise that immigrant populations will rise faster for gen 1 & 2 as they are likely to be younger and keen to start families once settled.

(* in a generation the rate has fallen for Muslim countries what it took Europe two centuries to achieve)

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:11 am

epwc wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 10:59 am Well that killed the thread

What are you trying to achieve or look for as a response ?
Over a decade it’s not really a huge increase compared to some parts of Germany , Sweden , Belgium…

Nature seems to be taking its course though and Muslim birth rates are falling* so am sure it will all be fine in the end. It should be of no surprise that immigrant populations will rise faster for gen 1 & 2 as they are likely to be younger and keen to start families once settled.

(* in a generation the rate has fallen for Muslim countries what it took Europe two centuries to achieve)

When you look at the US, some groups assimilated quicker then others but they have all assimilated and the hysteria in present times is reminiscent of the Know Nothings in the 19th century.

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:07 am

epwc wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 9:01 pm Untitled.jpg

Well, this is going to make some of you feel very uneasy. This compares 2011 to 2021 census. Trends? Muslims are taking over! I didn't expect an increase or at least such a big increase in Tower Hamlets, but as you can see the muslim population in the outer boroughs is increasing at a faster rate. I couldn't see how to extract data for Bangladeshi, it looked like all I could get was British Asian.

I know that there are a lot of Afghans now in London, plenty of Kurds working in all the Turkish restaurants and barbershops plus more africans. But I can't give you any evidence on that.

If anyone knows how to get the data regarding Bangladeshis specifically I'm happy to do the analysis

Do you have the overall population figures in each area to put alongside those?

No, big omission. In the absence of a response I deleted all the data I downloaded last night. Should have looked at that for sure

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:11 am What are you trying to achieve or look for as a response ?

I was called a liar, and was asked for some kind of evidence. I thought that posting some data (relevant but not answering directly) might move the conversation on, but nope it didn't.

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:11 amOver a decade it’s not really a huge increase compared to some parts of Germany , Sweden , Belgium…

Nature seems to be taking its course though and Muslim birth rates are falling* so am sure it will all be fine in the end. It should be of no surprise that immigrant populations will rise faster for gen 1 & 2 as they are likely to be younger and keen to start families once settled.

(* in a generation the rate has fallen for Muslim countries what it took Europe two centuries to achieve)

That's a good response, not what Slick or PB probably want to hear, but a good response.

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:31 am

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:11 am

epwc wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 10:59 am Well that killed the thread

What are you trying to achieve or look for as a response ?
Over a decade it’s not really a huge increase compared to some parts of Germany , Sweden , Belgium…

Nature seems to be taking its course though and Muslim birth rates are falling* so am sure it will all be fine in the end. It should be of no surprise that immigrant populations will rise faster for gen 1 & 2 as they are likely to be younger and keen to start families once settled.

(* in a generation the rate has fallen for Muslim countries what it took Europe two centuries to achieve)

When you look at the US, some groups assimilated quicker then others but they have all assimilated and the hysteria in present times is reminiscent of the Know Nothings in the 19th century.

In the US, you pledge allegiance to the flag and republic each day at school and stand for the national anthem at sporting events.

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:11 am

epwc wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 10:59 am Well that killed the thread

What are you trying to achieve or look for as a response ?
Over a decade it’s not really a huge increase compared to some parts of Germany , Sweden , Belgium…

Nature seems to be taking its course though and Muslim birth rates are falling* so am sure it will all be fine in the end. It should be of no surprise that immigrant populations will rise faster for gen 1 & 2 as they are likely to be younger and keen to start families once settled.

(* in a generation the rate has fallen for Muslim countries what it took Europe two centuries to achieve)

It is also worth noting that being Muslim isn't genetic.

robmatic wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:15 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:31 am

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:11 am

What are you trying to achieve or look for as a response ?
Over a decade it’s not really a huge increase compared to some parts of Germany , Sweden , Belgium…

Nature seems to be taking its course though and Muslim birth rates are falling* so am sure it will all be fine in the end. It should be of no surprise that immigrant populations will rise faster for gen 1 & 2 as they are likely to be younger and keen to start families once settled.

(* in a generation the rate has fallen for Muslim countries what it took Europe two centuries to achieve)

When you look at the US, some groups assimilated quicker then others but they have all assimilated and the hysteria in present times is reminiscent of the Know Nothings in the 19th century.

In the US, you pledge allegiance to the flag and republic each day at school and stand for the national anthem at sporting events.

Is this relevant to the nativist movements and accompanying violence in mid 19th century USA?

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:37 pm

robmatic wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:15 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:31 am

When you look at the US, some groups assimilated quicker then others but they have all assimilated and the hysteria in present times is reminiscent of the Know Nothings in the 19th century.

In the US, you pledge allegiance to the flag and republic each day at school and stand for the national anthem at sporting events.

Is this relevant to the nativist movements and accompanying violence in mid 19th century USA?

It is relevant to the assimilation process.

I'm trying to work out if you're trolling, being funny or genuinely fully believe what you said.

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:41 pm I'm trying to work out if you're trolling, being funny or genuinely fully believe what you said.

another shit response from you, America was founded as an immigrant nation (and slaves), hardly the same as the nation states of europe

Calculon wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 1:48 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:41 pm I'm trying to work out if you're trolling, being funny or genuinely fully believe what you said.

another shit response from you, America was founded as an immigrant nation (and slaves), hardly the same as the nation states of europe

And everybody in Europe is purebred and has never moved around?

Doing the national anthem was floated by the Tories during their time in government and it was laughed out of town and rightly so.

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 2:34 pm It is however statistically linked to areas of consanguinity within marriage and increasingly inbred and ultimately infertile generational offspring, again following by a few centuries the European Hapsburg example.
Luckily they only need one working stumpy webbed finger to detonate that vest ;)


*runs*

Why be that much of a fuckwit? Does consanguinity apply across all muslim cultures? Just Asian, just Pakistani? Arab? There is (as I'm sure you know) no homogeneous "muslim" community or culture.

epwc wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:09 pm

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:11 am What are you trying to achieve or look for as a response ?

I was called a liar, and was asked for some kind of evidence. I thought that posting some data (relevant but not answering directly) might move the conversation on, but nope it didn't.

The data you posted was for something we already agreed on and was only relevant in backing up what was already being said, that's why you didn't get an answer, it was pointless.

Still, enjoy your pint with your Bangladeshi mate tonight who I'm sure will agree with everything you haven't been saying.

Slick wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 3:24 pm Still, enjoy your pint with your Bangladeshi mate tonight who I'm sure will agree with everything you haven't been saying.

Thanks slick, will do

epwc wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 3:14 pm

Yeeb wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 2:34 pm It is however statistically linked to areas of consanguinity within marriage and increasingly inbred and ultimately infertile generational offspring, again following by a few centuries the European Hapsburg example.
Luckily they only need one working stumpy webbed finger to detonate that vest ;)


*runs*

Why be that much of a fuckwit? Does consanguinity apply across all muslim cultures? Just Asian, just Pakistani? Arab? There is (as I'm sure you know) no homogeneous "muslim" community or culture.

Calm down Mr Cobblepot , you are the one who is getting called out on this thread, posting spurious data that blurs faith and cultures , jokes that you’ve killed the thread , and now getting on high horse for some wierd as yet undetermined reason ?
World Health organisation & British medical journal both link effects on health between certain marriage patterns and religions and cultures including Arab and Pakistani as you mention. Certainly enough of a common ground / homogeneity for me to make (yet another) shit joke about.


The following is a headline from a study done by Tahir Jameel1*Mukhtiar BaigMukhtiar Baig2Manal Abdulaziz MuradManal Abdulaziz Murad3Zohair Jamil GazzazZohair Jamil Gazzaz1Youssof MalYoussof Mal2Wedyan Eid AlyoubiWedyan Eid Alyoubi4Ghadi Hamed AlyoubiGhadi Hamed Alyoubi4Shoug Tawfiq AlaslaniShoug Tawfiq Alaslani4Hanan Abdullah AlshuaibiHanan Abdullah Alshuaibi4Ayesha NawazAyesha Nawaz5Turki AlkaabiTurki Alkaabi4, (bad copy and paste, sorry) from the faculty of medicine, king Abdulazziz university , Jeddah.

“Background: Marriage among cousins or close relatives, i.e., consanguinity, is prevalent in many parts of the world, especially the Muslim world”

Happy screening errr I mean reading

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pu ... 28300/full

Slick wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 11:46 am

epwc wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 11:22 am

Slick wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 11:14 amNot sure what that has to do with what we are talking about. I don’t think anyone is suggesting we stick up a big wall or ignore other cultures

What are we suggesting then? The idea seems to be that there’s too many of “them” and they’re negatively affecting “our” culture. I’m not sure where I fit in your view of things

You’re doing that thing again where you don’t actually give an opinion or view on things, you just tell us all about your wonderful life and insinuate that anyone who might offer an opinion is just a racist.

What’s your opinion on schools in East London that are 100% Bangladeshi, or huge areas of West London which are pretty much 100% Indian? Or enclaves in the north that are 100% Pakistani. Are these successes of multiculturalism?

I’ll give you my view. I don’t really care too much. I think it’s a bit sad and a reflection of our collective missed chances to be better. I love spending time in those areas of west London and have many friends there. It’s a pattern repeated across the globe because at the heart of it is the fact that people prefer to live with their own culture. It’s a nonsense to pretend this is successful multiculturalism

Pretty much nail on head.

There's also this problem where the values of the immigrants entering the country don't align with the broader society. However, instead of the newcomer or minority conforming to the majority special exemptions are expected to be made. An accommodationist approach if you will.

So we see last week with the LGBT campaign in the football, the only player AFAIK that was exempted from having to wear the armband was the Ipswich captain, a Muslim who was born in Wolverhampton. The only other player who stuck his head above the parapet was Marc Guehi, a South Londoner and Christian who was born in the Ivory Coast.

So, you have the same type of thing with the ban on cousin marrying. An MP essentially makes the argument that "well, instead of banning it we should do genetic screening like they do in Arab countries". Part of his argument was that in Sub Saharan Africa cousin marriage is an accepted practice.

You can't build a healthy society when you have people pulling in all different directions and thinking that "well, they think this is normal in Uganda....." is an argument. I mean should we just allow polygamy because it's something some people do somewhere else in the world?

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:37 pm

robmatic wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:15 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:31 am

When you look at the US, some groups assimilated quicker then others but they have all assimilated and the hysteria in present times is reminiscent of the Know Nothings in the 19th century.

In the US, you pledge allegiance to the flag and republic each day at school and stand for the national anthem at sporting events.

Is this relevant to the nativist movements and accompanying violence in mid 19th century USA?

How is something that happened nearly 200 years ago in another country at all relevant to what is happening in Britain today?

Because it's a pretty good example of how hysteria about culture being "erased" by newcomers turned out to be exactly that as the newcomers assimilated over time despite the best efforts of nativists to make them feel unwelcome.

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 8:03 pm Because it's a pretty good example of how hysteria about culture being "erased" by newcomers turned out to be exactly that as the newcomers assimilated over time despite the best efforts of nativists to make them feel unwelcome.

They created a new culture, they settled a vast continent on which land was being given away, they did so at a time of unbridled economic growth and have probably the worst race relations of any developed country to this day. So neither is it in any way comparable nor a desirable end state