Women's Rugby Thread

[Guy Smiley]

Perhaps it’s down to echoing my sentiments and misgivings about NZR’s admin quality… but I reckon that’s the best Mark Reason article I’ve read.

I think the whole organisation needs a thorough review, bottom up and top down.

[eldanielfire]

Wayne Smith named as new Black Ferns coach, with Steve Hansen’s daughter one of the assistants. They’ll have Mike Cron helping out too… this is a serious step up for NZR to invest like this into the team. I hope it works for them and they can get some improvement into their system…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/465654 ... erns-coach

Great news after the Moore fiasco.

Some of the revelations in Mark Reason's article on the review process are a bit concerning...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/1 ... s-meltdown

Jobs for old boys club and wives and husbands? Non-independent Independent report? Short cuts? Seems like almost every Union in Rugby sadly.

Though it's interestung the article calls for there needing to be a coach who reflects the ethnic identity of the team for results. Not sure that is true given both the All Blacks and Black Ferns are the most successful test rugby teams in history and the Black Ferns are reigning champions. Rassie Erasmus is ceratinly the model of how to understand players needs in possibly the most complex cultural environment in the rugby world and after a black coaches failed at it.

Though the fitness aspect is interesting, the article points to Pep's reign at Man City and then says that could be the sort of body shaming that was complained about by the women. But the women are not fit enough.

[eldanielfire]

Some rugby people... more and more, perhaps? ... are complete cnuts. I think many of us will scrutinize poor decisions, as we do with players (from the lofty position of our armchairs as sad as that is ), but we're not likely to shout out abuse or go after them in person on social media. What's wrong with these people?

Amazing. I'll give the "In earshock" comemts like shocking a pass, some refs are shocking. But the insults and swearing and swearing at the ref are unacceptable. I hope it was reported. I'm happy to criticism refs, but I won't slag them off to their faces and accept it can be a hard job, it's why I try to only criticise the stuff they see and don't act with consistency or the rules.

From the social media sphere (not that it should be surprised that its full of angry dickheads), there's also a massive amount of scrutiny on a tiny number of mistakes in what's possibly the most dynamic sport out there, where many players are testing the boundaries of what they can get away with (so much so that the powers that be actually ignore a lot of infractions in an attempt to not continually blow the whistle).

That one person and their (sometimes bafflingly silent/unhelpful) assistants can deal with it all given where they stand, all of the top level people do a pretty damn good job! I think high school football has four officials for a less-dynamic game (NFL 7?), basketball two or three for a third of the players and in a much tinier space!

In some of my first first games, I was occasionally in the way (sorted that out fairly quick, but spoiled a few plays), often unsighted (no touchies I could trust as they were usually teenaged bench players or parents who didn't know much), and asked to watch for punches from both sides, which I never saw because the buggers carefully did it behind my back.

Yeah, in my early days positioning was the big thing. Also laying out to the teams and captains that I will only penalise and sanction what I see firmly and with no exceptions. Fortunantly at age group levels I've never really had punches thrown. Though I played in many games where they were.

[Enzedder]

Wayne Smith taking over as coach of the Black ferns with immediate effect.

[Niegs]

Wayne Smith taking over as coach of the Black ferns with immediate effect.

With Ted and Mike Cron helping out from time to time, I hear!

It seems the assistants are well-accustomed to the women's scene, but I'd love to hear their take on the state of things and their thoughts on the talent available. I only ever get to see highlights, so admit I base this without knowing the full picture, but there are stand-out players who never seem to get picked for Ferns.

[Lobby]

The England team for Sunday has been announced:

15. Helena Rowland
14 Lydia Thompson
13. Emily Scarratt
12. Holly Aitchison
11. Jessica Breach
10. Zoe Harrison
9. Leanne Infante

1. Vickii Cornborough
2. Lark Davies
3. Sarah Bern
4. Zoe Aldcroft
5. Abbie Ward
6. Alex Matthews
7. Marlie Packer
8. Sarah Hunter (c)

Finishers

16. Amy Cokayne
17. Hannah Botterman
18. Maud Muir
19. Rosie Galligan (Harlequins, 4 caps)
20. Poppy Cleall
21. Natasha Hunt
22. Amber Reed
23. Ellie Kildunne

Another very strong team (although Rowland will be playing in yet another position for this game - Fly half, IC and now Fullback).

As already noted, Ireland will be without their 7s players, many of whom have been amongst their most impressive players so far. Eve Higgins and Stacey Flood have both impressed in the centres, and Amee-Leigh Murphy Crowe has looked dangerous on the wing. Ireland will struggle without them and the four other players removed from their squad. England by a lot.

Oh and congratulations are due to Emily Scarratt who will be getting her 100th cap.

[ASMO]

Ireland will struggle to keep it under 70

[tabascoboy]

RUGBY AMERICAS NORTH SEVENS QUALIFIERS (23-24 APRIL)

Thomas A. Robinson Stadium in Nassau, Bahamas is scheduled to host the Rugby Americas North Sevens Qualifiers this weekend.

6 teams will compete for one place in the finals, Canada clear favourites, also taking part: Mexico, Trinidad & Tobago and I think Cayman Islands, Dominican Republic plus one more I can't find...because there is no such thing as a simple list of teams given at the RAN or Worldrugby sites.

EDIT: It's Canada, Mexico, Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago and Cayman Islands so one team must have dropped out.

[Ovals]

The England team for Sunday has been announced:

15. Helena Rowland
14 Lydia Thompson
13. Emily Scarratt
12. Holly Aitchison
11. Jessica Breach
10. Zoe Harrison
9. Leanne Infante

1. Vickii Cornborough
2. Lark Davies
3. Sarah Bern
4. Zoe Aldcroft
5. Abbie Ward
6. Alex Matthews
7. Marlie Packer
8. Sarah Hunter (c)

Finishers

16. Amy Cokayne
17. Hannah Botterman
18. Maud Muir
19. Rosie Galligan (Harlequins, 4 caps)
20. Poppy Cleall
21. Natasha Hunt
22. Amber Reed
23. Ellie Kildunne

Another very strong team (although Rowland will be playing in yet another position for this game - Fly half, IC and now Fullback).

As already noted, Ireland will be without their 7s players, many of whom have been amongst their most impressive players so far. Eve Higgins and Stacey Flood have both impressed in the centres, and Amee-Leigh Murphy Crowe has looked dangerous on the wing. Ireland will struggle without them and the four other players removed from their squad. England by a lot.

Oh and congratulations are due to Emily Scarratt who will be getting her 100th cap.

Yeah, good side and it'll be a cricket score against a weakened Irish side. England should also benefit from having a playmaker at FB, not that this will be a great test of the tactic. Thompson should run riot on the right wing where England seem to favour attacking.

The Italy Scotland game shoud be interesting. Neither side have chalked up a win yet with Italy being a bit disappointing - not sure why they've dropped Tounesi and D'Inca to the bench - I thought they were two of their better performers. Scotland weren't far away against Wales and acquitted themselves fairly well against France. I fancy Scotland to sneak an away win but it could go either way. It'll also be interesting to see how hard Wales can push France - a loss is pretty certain but Wales are a much improved side from last season and made England work for their points in their last outing.

[eldanielfire]

The England team for Sunday has been announced:

15. Helena Rowland
14 Lydia Thompson
13. Emily Scarratt
12. Holly Aitchison
11. Jessica Breach
10. Zoe Harrison
9. Leanne Infante

1. Vickii Cornborough
2. Lark Davies
3. Sarah Bern
4. Zoe Aldcroft
5. Abbie Ward
6. Alex Matthews
7. Marlie Packer
8. Sarah Hunter (c)

Finishers

16. Amy Cokayne
17. Hannah Botterman
18. Maud Muir
19. Rosie Galligan (Harlequins, 4 caps)
20. Poppy Cleall
21. Natasha Hunt
22. Amber Reed
23. Ellie Kildunne

Another very strong team (although Rowland will be playing in yet another position for this game - Fly half, IC and now Fullback).

As already noted, Ireland will be without their 7s players, many of whom have been amongst their most impressive players so far. Eve Higgins and Stacey Flood have both impressed in the centres, and Amee-Leigh Murphy Crowe has looked dangerous on the wing. Ireland will struggle without them and the four other players removed from their squad. England by a lot.

Oh and congratulations are due to Emily Scarratt who will be getting her 100th cap.

Yeah, good side and it'll be a cricket score against a weakened Irish side. England should also benefit from having a playmaker at FB, not that this will be a great test of the tactic. Thompson should run riot on the right wing where England seem to favour attacking.

The Italy Scotland game shoud be interesting. Neither side have chalked up a win yet with Italy being a bit disappointing - not sure why they've dropped Tounesi and D'Inca to the bench - I thought they were two of their better performers. Scotland weren't far away against Wales and acquitted themselves fairly well against France. I fancy Scotland to sneak an away win but it could go either way. It'll also be interesting to see how hard Wales can push France - a loss is pretty certain but Wales are a much improved side from last season and made England work for their points in their last outing.

Ironically a few years ago England greatly favoured the left wing by miles. They had multiple wingers having their best try scoring games on the left, Breech, Kelly Smith, Kay Wilson all having massive games there and the right wingers rarely getting much of a sniff.

I should say Ireland are bringing back in some experience for the Sevens players and they always have dangerous wingers with good footwork and easily capitalise on mistakes. I can see England not scoring as much as they should as they often try to mcuh tos core a lot of tries or players get determined to get on the scoreboard and Ireland can be good at making a mess of the game.

Not sure where Wales is at. Still way to sort a time for mcuh professionalism to atke shape. I feel they need to work on their exit plans and creating opportunities in attack and capitalising on mistakes to attack to progress as much as they could.

[eldanielfire]

Wales for tonight:

Wales: 15. Kayleigh Powell, 14. Lisa Neumann, 13. Hannah Jones, 12. Robyn Wilkins, 11. Jasmine Joyce, 10. Elinor Snowsill, 9. Keira Bevan, 1. Gwenllian Pyrs, 2. Carys Phillips, 3. Cerys Hale, 4. Natalia John, 5. Gwen Crabb, 6. Alisha Butchers, 7. Bethan Lewis, 8. Siwan Lillicrap (capt).

Replacements: 16. Kelsey Jones, 17. Cara Hope, 18. Donna Rose, 19. Alex Callender, 20. Sioned Harries, 21. Ffion Lewis, 22. Kerin Lake, 23. Niamh Terry.

Interesting goung for WIlkings boot at 12 with Snowsil running the attack at 10. Makes sense to me, Lake ahsn't palyed badly at 12 but not done anything that adds to the team. I think that is Wales strongets front row for scrummaging. Will be needed against France. Also like Bethan Lewis' physicality at 7. Still raw there but she's a big talent and a big tackler. Niamh Terry is an interesting selection, she can cover multiple positions.

[Ovals]

France looking much sharper this week - Sansus is a real terrier and very elusive. Could be a long evening for the Welsh.

[Lobby]

France looking much sharper this week - Sansus is a real terrier and very elusive. Could be a long evening for the Welsh.

Wales biggest problem is no one can kick any distance, so they are incapable of getting out of their own half. One of their best multi-phase possessions ended with them still in their own half.

[eldanielfire]

France looking much sharper this week - Sansus is a real terrier and very elusive. Could be a long evening for the Welsh.

Wales biggest problem is no one can kick any distance, so they are incapable of getting out of their own half. One of their best multi-phase possessions ended with them still in their own half.

The kicking problem is coupled with the fact Wales have no attacking shape or pattern to run it out, or run it ever. Or any plan that gets it to their bacsk in space. The slowness of their passing movement is not helping.

Not sure why the Welsh coach is keeping Cary Hale on, she's been awful in the scrum today.

[Lobby]

France looking much sharper this week - Sansus is a real terrier and very elusive. Could be a long evening for the Welsh.

Wales biggest problem is no one can kick any distance, so they are incapable of getting out of their own half. One of their best multi-phase possessions ended with them still in their own half.

The kicking problem is coupled with the fact Wales have no attacking shape or pattern to run it out, or run it ever. Or any plan that gets it to their bacsk in space. The slowness of their passing movement is not helping.

Not sure why the Welsh coach is keeping Cary Hale on, she's been awful in the scrum today.

Yes, they’ve been very poor tonight.

[Ovals]

The game has been very scrappy in the 2nd half. France don't seem to keep their concentration once the game is won - simlar story in their last game.

[eldanielfire]

The game has been very scrappy in the 2nd half. France don't seem to keep their concentration once the game is won - simlar story in their last game.

Wales upped their defensive speed and pressure in the 2nd half and actually attacked at times adding pressure. France messed up a try in the first so it may not just about being the game won.

[Ovals]

The game has been very scrappy in the 2nd half. France don't seem to keep their concentration once the game is won - simlar story in their last game.

Wales upped their defensive speed and pressure in the 2nd half and actually attacked at times adding pressure. France messed up a try in the first so it may not just about being the game won.

True - but France seemed to get a bit lazy in the 2nd half, poorer support play and not so quick around the breakdown - and made more unforced errors. It's been a bit of a pattern for them. With the amount of forward dominance they had, they should have won by more. Good effort from the Welsh though - shame they were a bit sloppy in the first 20.

[laurent]

The french midfield is still showing a lack of attacking flair

The replacement half backs are really 3rd string with the starting pair injured.

I don't believe this group can beat England although you never know how they'll do with the crowd pushing them.
There is not enough in the midfield to cause trouble.

[eldanielfire]

The french midfield is still showing a lack of attacking flair

The replacement half backs are really 3rd string with the starting pair injured.

I don't believe this group can beat England although you never know how they'll do with the crowd pushing them.
There is not enough in the midfield to cause trouble.

France's back 3 though are class, like 3 Abby Dow's. Their first choice half backs are quality. Their pack has the best scrum and a good lineout and lots of dangerous carriers. they have size and bulk advantage even over England. They can kick with the best of them. They have multiple turnover threats. They always up their game for England.

England meanwhile still aren't getting their backs to create and rip open defences, their own midfield isn't creating much with Aitcheson having done nothing all tournament but still getting played, but doesn't get dropped. England don't have as many turnover threats and I still think Zoe Harrison hasn't really shown she can perform at 10 when under pressure at test level.

[Ovals]

The french midfield is still showing a lack of attacking flair

The replacement half backs are really 3rd string with the starting pair injured.

I don't believe this group can beat England although you never know how they'll do with the crowd pushing them.
There is not enough in the midfield to cause trouble.

France's back 3 though are class, like 3 Abby Dow's. Their first choice half backs are quality. Their pack has the best scrum and a good lineout and lots of dangerous carriers. they have size and bulk advantage even over England. They can kick with the best of them. They have multiple turnover threats. They always up their game for England.

England meanwhile still aren't getting their backs to create and rip open defences, their own midfield isn't creating much with Aitcheson having done nothing all tournament but still getting played, but doesn't get dropped. England don't have as many turnover threats and I still think Zoe Harrison hasn't really shown she can perform at 10 when under pressure at test level.

It will certainly be a much sterner test of England but I don't think the French will dominate the set pieces like they did last year. Our scrum, in particular, is much improved. Most of the French threat seems to come via Sansus, I don't see a lot of creativity other than from her - certainly not from FH or the centres. We also have greater depth and a very strong bench. Should be a good game but I'd back England to contain them and to eventually break their defence down.

[tabascoboy]

Should be able to watch the Rugby North America Womens' 7s live at https://rugbyamericasnorth.com/watch-th ... ve-stream/

So far Canada beat T&T 44- 0 and Mexico beat Cayman I 48 - 5

[Niegs]

Fijiana go undefeated and win the Aussie Super W. Assuming the majority will make up their national team, and maybe they won't truly threat France or England, but hopefully get their scores up to be a best third place finisher and shock someone in the quarters!

Fueling my rugby bias, too, with all the wide moves... while boring Waratahs only scored from lineouts (hookers scoring a hat trick should be seen as a blight on the sport, imo, unless we're talking Schalk Brits in space )

[Niegs]

I hear that Chiefs women gave Quins a bit of a second half thumping... helps when you play, in a cup series that most others seemed to use their reserves in, upwards of 15 international players from other countries.



15. Eng. 14. United States, 13. Japan, 12. United States, 11. Scotland, 10. Spain, 9. Eng. 8. United States, 7. Eng, 6. Eng, 5. Netherlands, 4. Eng, 3. Spain, 2. Eng, 1. United States

16. Canada, 17. Eng., 18. Canada, 19. Canada, 20. Canada, 21. Eng. 22. United States, 23. Hong Kong.

[eldanielfire]

I mentioned before the England women were giving away their socks after wins to fans. The Italian players took that fan love further:

[Ovals]

Missed the Italy Scotland game - surprised how little Rollie and Lloyd appear to have been involved - Did Scotland get beaten up, up front ?

[tabascoboy]

In the North America 7s, Canada won 3 games yesterday without conceding a point, and will play in the final most likely against Mexico. Barring a turnaround of huge proportions they will qualify for the RWC 7s finals - they already have the RAN allocated spot for the Commonwealth Games.

[charltom]

Does women's rugby have different laws? England's 10 kicked out on the full about 5 mins in (before the chalked off "try"), from outside her 22, and Ireland's throw was up where it went out - they didn't take it back. Am I missing something, or did 30 players and the ref team miss it?

[Ovals]

Does women's rugby have different laws? England's 10 kicked out on the full about 5 mins in (before the chalked off "try"), from outside her 22, and Ireland's throw was up where it went out - they didn't take it back. Am I missing something, or did 30 players and the ref team miss it?

I noticed that - wasn't aware of any difference in the laws.

England very scrappy atm - bit over eager maybe.

[Ovals]

I hope England aren't just going to use the forwards all day to score tries by bullying Irelands weaker pack - that won't prepare us for the game against France.

[Ovals]

Terrible game so far - shocking penalty miss from Ireland right in front of the posts.

[Ovals]

Very poor 1st half from England. Ireland have organised their defence very well but Englnad have overcomplicated things when opportunities have beckoned - long loopy miss passes and a kick to the wing when it just needed to go through the hands. And way too many penalties given away through poor support at the breakdown.

[Lobby]

Ireland 6 lucky to only get a yellow for a head on head tackle. Should really have been a red.

[Niegs]

Missed the Italy Scotland game - surprised how little Rollie and Lloyd appear to have been involved - Did Scotland get beaten up, up front ?

Both were in my fantasy team and had fewer carrying yards than the forwards!

I don't think it started raining until the second half, even. There were quite a few kicks, from memory. Lots of penalties at the breakdown (which made me think the ref was actually calling things accurately, not the breakdown lottery that's often the case in the men's game). But both teams will have to sort that out going forward, getting enough bodies over the ball to prevent the easy jackal.

[Niegs]

Seems to be a bit of chatter about this online ... should have walked.

[Ovals]

Missed the Italy Scotland game - surprised how little Rollie and Lloyd appear to have been involved - Did Scotland get beaten up, up front ?

Both were in my fantasy team and had fewer carrying yards than the forwards!

I don't think it started raining until the second half, even. There were quite a few kicks, from memory. Lots of penalties at the breakdown (which made me think the ref was actually calling things accurately, not the breakdown lottery that's often the case in the men's game). But both teams will have to sort that out going forward, getting enough bodies over the ball to prevent the easy jackal.

Yeah - they were in mine too (one as a sub) - didn't score well in that game but bounced back today to total 1040 for the round. Question is, do I stick with Rollie for next week ? She can't do that badly again against Ireland; can she ?

Next weekends games are tricky to read. England looked flummoxed when Ireland defended well - had it not been for the vast superiority in the forwrads they's have struggled to take the lead in the 1st half - and their extra depth, fitness, and 20 mins against 14 women, probably flattered England in the 2nd half - France will not roll over so easily. I fancy Wales to take Italy but it will be close. Ireland Scotland is anyone's guess.

[eldanielfire]

Missed the Italy Scotland game - surprised how little Rollie and Lloyd appear to have been involved - Did Scotland get beaten up, up front ?

Both were in my fantasy team and had fewer carrying yards than the forwards!

I don't think it started raining until the second half, even. There were quite a few kicks, from memory. Lots of penalties at the breakdown (which made me think the ref was actually calling things accurately, not the breakdown lottery that's often the case in the men's game). But both teams will have to sort that out going forward, getting enough bodies over the ball to prevent the easy jackal.

Yeah - they were in mine too (one as a sub) - didn't score well in that game but bounced back today to total 1040 for the round. Question is, do I stick with Rollie for next week ? She can't do that badly again against Ireland; can she ?

Next weekends games are tricky to read. England looked flummoxed when Ireland defended well - had it not been for the vast superiority in the forwrads they's have struggled to take the lead in the 1st half - and their extra depth, fitness, and 20 mins against 14 women, probably flattered England in the 2nd half - France will not roll over so easily. I fancy Wales to take Italy but it will be close. Ireland Scotland is anyone's guess.

This is a problem I've side before for England, in fact 2 problems

1) England's mentality goes to point when they think "I want a try today" mode. It's happened numerous times over this RWC cycle

2) They are so reliant on the forward play they are great backs who aren't conditioned to break up the defensive line more. Which is an issue when a team has parity in the forwards.

[eldanielfire]

Seems to be a bit of chatter about this online ... should have walked.

It's barely anything, but it's an example of the dick moves players who in tackling on lying on players ages afterwards after they score (even though she didn't score).

[Lobby]

Seems to be a bit of chatter about this online ... should have walked.

It's barely anything, but it's an example of the dick moves players who in tackling on lying on players ages afterwards after they score (even though she didn't score).

The tackle on infante was also a bit high as she went over the line. As for lying on players, the best example was earlier in the game when the Irish hooker (who was otherwise excellent) lay on Marlee packer for ages, much to Packer’s annoyance; both were warned by the ref afterwards.

It wasn’t just fatigue and the cards that did for Ireland. I thought Infante had a poor game in the first half, and seemed to be trying to hard to keep the pace up, to the extent that both her passing and decision making suffered. England’s play improved greatly when Mo Hunt came on.

Some good points, Rowland looked very good at full back, and Kildunne looked much more effective on the wing than she has at either full back or centre.

One final thing. Despite what the refereeing team said, I thought the level of force in the second head on head was less than the first. By the letter of the law, both should have been red cards, but if one of them was yellow, it was the second, rather than the first.

[eldanielfire]

Seems to be a bit of chatter about this online ... should have walked.

It's barely anything, but it's an example of the dick moves players who in tackling on lying on players ages afterwards after they score (even though she didn't score).

The tackle on infante was also a bit high as she went over the line. As for lying on players, the best example was earlier in the game when the Irish hooker (who was otherwise excellent) lay on Marlee packer for ages, much to Packer’s annoyance; both were warned by the ref afterwards.

It wasn’t just fatigue and the cards that did for Ireland. I thought Infante had a poor game in the first half, and seemed to be trying to hard to keep the pace up, to the extent that both her passing and decision making suffered. England’s play improved greatly when Mo Hunt came on.

Some good points, Rowland looked very good at full back, and Kildunne looked much more effective on the wing than she has at either full back or centre.

One final thing. Despite what the refereeing team said, I thought the level of force in the second head on head was less than the first. By the letter of the law, both should have been red cards, but if one of them was yellow, it was the second, rather than the first.

I thought England as a whole wasn't forcing the ball as they did in the first. Obviously talked about it at half time. They always seem to have a 6 Nations game where in a half they do this. Ireland seemed to collapse physically by the 50odd minute and England steamrollered them. Especially as England brought on their bigger and more powerful pack players in Botterman, Cleall, Cokayne, Muir, which overwhelmed a tired Ireland. I thought a big guilty party was Harrison, whose long loopy passes when two or three quick ones would lead to a try. But Harrison was good in other aspects.

Rowland did look good at 15. Be hard as the test is when you are under high ball and positioning pressure. Kildunne did look good on the wing. Her footwork and try line instincts were excellent. Packer is competing with Sansus for player of the tournament IMO.

Not sure what Ireland was doing physically, they seemed determined to tackle high on the body. Not sure matching England for power would work, I'd go low and have your next player in quickly to attempt a turnover as the player will likely fall on the defenders side. And Ireland have a number of players who can get over in those rucks. Coaches are in love with dominate tackles, but I'm not so sure they are always the best for all teams and at all times. Seems especially silly when you know your opponents are more physical than you.