Re: The Springboks vs British & Irish Lions 1st Test Thread
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:08 pm
I was under the impression they did. Certainly looked that way. And yes would be surprised that they didn't.
A place where escape goats go to play
https://www.notplanetrugby.com/
I was under the impression they did. Certainly looked that way. And yes would be surprised that they didn't.
<name drop mode>I was playing tennis with John Mitchell today, I told him I thought Maro was the most destructive rugby player on the planet atm. He agreedASMO wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:33 pmHe would walk into any team on the planet as first name on the sheet (taranaki girls 2nd XV excepted of course)
Yes, agreed but that wasn't the point he was making. It was performance based.Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:02 pmIf anyone gave a toss about player welfare Biggar shouldn't play the next Test as he failed the HIA.Big D wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:08 pm WTF is Warburton on about? Why would you consider changing 9 and 10?
Good. They need to feel a bit of pressure to motivate them. This “we are playing to bring hope to our country” bullshit needs to stop. We can’t always use the misery of our country to motivate the team. That shit only works when you are an underdog.Sards wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:33 pm All the pressure is on Rassie and the Boks now. Another loss and its goodnight sweetheart
Would agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.mos_eisely_ wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:02 pm Harris for Daly only change needed.
What can the Springboks do to come back now?
Must be his Nigerian culture and oruginOpenside wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:11 pm<name drop mode>I was playing tennis with John Mitchell today, I told him I thought Maro was the most destructive rugby player on the planet atm. He agreed![]()
Fuck off JakeBlake wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:54 pmWhen you are in possession in your own half, between the 50m and 22m line, your highest percentage play is ALWAYS a contestable box kick. It just is. If the kick is good you have a chance at gaining possession again. Either in the air, or at the breakdown, or with a counter ruck when going in hard against a retreating opposition pack and a misaligned defensive line.Sandstorm wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:44 pm Faf kicks, Pollard kicks, Willie kicks, De Allende crashes. And when it isn’t working, there’s no Plan B.
We have an awesome backline, but they never get a chance with ball-in-hand.
It’s not going to work every time, but it will work more often than not and put you in range for a penalty or some other opportunity from a scrum or lineout.
Trying to play attacking rugby in that zone against modern defenses is suicide. Every tackle is a breakdown contest and you are either going to get turned over resulting in a turnover try, or concede a kickable penalty.
Never seen a yellow for a defender “making” the attacking team fall over the line to try to score from a maul.ASMO wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:43 pm If it was a fumble, it would have been a penalty try and a YC for Eben collapsing the maul.
Spot on all your observations.Ymx wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:40 pm Just watched it. Blimey the boks were very unlucky with a number of calls there.
Call of clear and obvious in front of the kicker (which it needed to be due to the on field try call). Was anything but clear. The TMO even said words to that effect, but then still claimed it as ahead. Weird decision process.
I probably missed something but Faf trying to clear the ball from the “ruck” right on the try line. Emoji reached over the “ruck” and grabbed the ball also. Somehow became a lions pen??
The lifting above the horizontal and not returning to the ground down with care. In what world was that not a card. Not that I bay for cards.
The lions maul try looked a bit of a fumble. It might not have been, but it certainly deserved more angles of scrutiny there.
Thought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.ASMO wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:26 pmWould agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.mos_eisely_ wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:02 pm Harris for Daly only change needed.
What can the Springboks do to come back now?
Maybe just for the in at the side and tackling the guy with the ball, then
Seems reasonable*PS … Boks to win the series 2-0."
Proper rant by keoia801310 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:00 pm
https://www.keo.co.za/get-rid-of-jonker ... he-series/
"Marius Jonker must be replaced now as the TMO. Not because he is a cheat but because he was petrified to rule anything in the favour of the Springboks. He is incompetent, writes Mark Keohane.
I don’t blame Jonker for the Springboks first Test defeat against the British & Irish Lions, but my god it was embarrassing listening to Jonker crumble whenever a decision was referred his way. Even when he had to rule the Springboks try in their favour, he sounded apologetic for actually not finding something he could not rule against.
World Rugby, never make the mistake again of putting a local referee in the box for an international series.
Jonker’s biggest moment came with Willie le Roux’s try. The on-field decision was a try. He was asked if there was compelling evidence to change the decision. His response was that there was nothing ‘definitive’ but that Willie appeared to be in front.
Was he or was he not?
There was nothing ‘definitive’. His words. Not mine
.Jonker should never be a TMO again when the Springboks play
But he will because it is World Rugby’s way.
Stuff it up and we give you the next big game, as they did when Romain Poite stuffed up the third and final Test in the Lions versus All Blacks in 2017.
Where was Jonker when Tom Curry illegally scrummed into the Boks loosehead Ox Nche, on repeated television replays?
Nowhere!
Penalty Lions.
Jonker was a disgrace on Saturday night … not to South Africa but to TMO’s.
He was so out of his depth, it was as embarrassing watching it, as it will be for him for the rest of his life.
What a prick.
In a year, we will read of his heartache in feeling obliged in making the wrong decision.
His apology, every time he had to rule in favour of South Africa, was a cringe.
The Lions, this week, made a lot of South African being the TMO. They shouldn’t have. He was always going to be gold to them.
They should have been thankful.
What they don’t know about South Africans, is that (like Jonker) so many of them are so awed through insecurity that they would rather make the mistake and be applauded internationally.
Marius Jonker: You should never be allowed near a television set, let alone a rugby field.
Regardless of your nationality, you didn’t have the balls to make a rugby decision tonight because in your heart you know that Willie was not in front of the kicker and that Hamish Watson should have been carded.
You despicable coward.
Fuck You
*PS … Boks to win the series 2-0."
Genuinely confused as to how you reached this conclusion. What exactly did he do badly, or wrong? The way the Lions set out to play would probably have suited Williams or Adams more, but he did everything that was asked of him.Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:10 pmThought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.ASMO wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:26 pmWould agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.mos_eisely_ wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:02 pm Harris for Daly only change needed.
What can the Springboks do to come back now?
Thought he was ineffectual on attack and unconvincing under the high ball. Even the much shorter Cheslin Kolbe outjumped him at times - thought that would've been one of VDM's strengths. Not sure how anyone could rate him much higher than a charitable 5/10 tbh. Time to give one of the other blokes a crack.Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:26 pmGenuinely confused as to how you reached this conclusion. What exactly did he do badly, or wrong? The way the Lions set out to play would probably have suited Williams or Adams more, but he did everything that was asked of him.Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:10 pmThought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.
You must have been watching a different game. The guy I was watching got very little service, but did the best he could with what came his way. Had both hands to a high ball with the try line gaping in the 2nd minute, and made an excellent break in the 2nd half where he would have been in if he hadn’t slipped (though it would have been pulled back for an earlier knock-on anyway). He didn’t screw up under the high ball any more than anyone else did -including the ‘bomb defuser’ Liam Williams. But hey, it’s all about opinions.Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:00 pmThought he was ineffectual on attack and unconvincing under the high ball. Even the much shorter Cheslin Kolbe outjumped him at times - thought that would've been one of VDM's strengths. Not sure how anyone could rate him much higher than a charitable 5/10 tbh. Time to give one of the other blokes a crack.Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:26 pmGenuinely confused as to how you reached this conclusion. What exactly did he do badly, or wrong? The way the Lions set out to play would probably have suited Williams or Adams more, but he did everything that was asked of him.Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:10 pmThought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.
Far be it from me to get in the way of a good rant, but shouldn't someone going off on the credibility of TMO's know that they can't weigh in on technical offences like a scrum penalty?ia801310 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:00 pm
Also I see Gatland's mind games have worked.
https://www.keo.co.za/get-rid-of-jonker ... he-series/
"Marius Jonker must be replaced now as the TMO. Not because he is a cheat but because he was petrified to rule anything in the favour of the Springboks. He is incompetent, writes Mark Keohane.
I don’t blame Jonker for the Springboks first Test defeat against the British & Irish Lions, but my god it was embarrassing listening to Jonker crumble whenever a decision was referred his way. Even when he had to rule the Springboks try in their favour, he sounded apologetic for actually not finding something he could not rule against.
World Rugby, never make the mistake again of putting a local referee in the box for an international series.
Jonker’s biggest moment came with Willie le Roux’s try. The on-field decision was a try. He was asked if there was compelling evidence to change the decision. His response was that there was nothing ‘definitive’ but that Willie appeared to be in front.
Was he or was he not?
There was nothing ‘definitive’. His words. Not mine
.Jonker should never be a TMO again when the Springboks play
But he will because it is World Rugby’s way.
Stuff it up and we give you the next big game, as they did when Romain Poite stuffed up the third and final Test in the Lions versus All Blacks in 2017.
Where was Jonker when Tom Curry illegally scrummed into the Boks loosehead Ox Nche, on repeated television replays?
Nowhere!
Penalty Lions.
Jonker was a disgrace on Saturday night … not to South Africa but to TMO’s.
He was so out of his depth, it was as embarrassing watching it, as it will be for him for the rest of his life.
What a prick.
In a year, we will read of his heartache in feeling obliged in making the wrong decision.
His apology, every time he had to rule in favour of South Africa, was a cringe.
The Lions, this week, made a lot of South African being the TMO. They shouldn’t have. He was always going to be gold to them.
They should have been thankful.
What they don’t know about South Africans, is that (like Jonker) so many of them are so awed through insecurity that they would rather make the mistake and be applauded internationally.
Marius Jonker: You should never be allowed near a television set, let alone a rugby field.
Regardless of your nationality, you didn’t have the balls to make a rugby decision tonight because in your heart you know that Willie was not in front of the kicker and that Hamish Watson should have been carded.
You despicable coward.
Fuck You
*PS … Boks to win the series 2-0."
Obviously still but hurt from the 2019 WC?Certain Navigator wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:00 am The first half in particular wasn't a great advertisement for international rugby. Overall, the Lions deserved to take it because they at least played with some intent, albeit only occasionally. For the Boks, by contrast, on the rare occasions that de Klutz forgot to kick the ball, Dullard quickly made up for it.
The officiating was generally good, even if Jonker was almost having seizures when provided with incontrovertible evidence for over-turning two Boks' tries. He should also have rejected the 3rd one (clear knock-on), but that would undoubtedly have caused a spontaneous combustion episode.
The love on this thread for Itoje is over-done. Did a few showy things early on, but his overall work rate was average at best — very few (and ineffectual) carries and not many more tackles. Great player, but this match wasn't the greatest piece of evidence for it.
Basically, two rusty teams knocking five bells out of each other with the slightly less rusty one occasionally remembering to play some rugby.
Sound like an Aussie, mate?Who's the TMO? Having a total homer whoever he is. First he insists on Dixon getting a yellow for a tackle on Black's shoulder, then he talks a clear red on Heem down to just a penalty, and finally he misses a massive forward pass from Ioane that results in 3 points for the Blues. Outrageous
That's Keo and his likes.
Sorry, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement of his performance. He was fair to middling, at best.Yr Alban wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:14 pmYou must have been watching a different game. The guy I was watching got very little service, but did the best he could with what came his way. Had both hands to a high ball with the try line gaping in the 2nd minute, and made an excellent break in the 2nd half where he would have been in if he hadn’t slipped (though it would have been pulled back for an earlier knock-on anyway). He didn’t screw up under the high ball any more than anyone else did -including the ‘bomb defuser’ Liam Williams. But hey, it’s all about opinions.Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:00 pmThought he was ineffectual on attack and unconvincing under the high ball. Even the much shorter Cheslin Kolbe outjumped him at times - thought that would've been one of VDM's strengths. Not sure how anyone could rate him much higher than a charitable 5/10 tbh. Time to give one of the other blokes a crack.
Would start with Owens. LCD can't throw for sh*t. Conan and Henshaw did bugger all but not sure there is any better options. Front row got bummed in 1st half and maybe Vunipola should swap with Sutherland.ASMO wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:26 pmWould agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.mos_eisely_ wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:02 pm Harris for Daly only change needed.
What can the Springboks do to come back now?
The kicking game is soooooo 2007. Only for exiting your 22 really. It is not going to work with a tiny winger like Kolbe anyway. It was tried after 2007 and failed in 2011. Everyone forgot about it in 2019 when Rassie copied it and won that RWC. Trick is to grow the team from that. Not play for a wing and a prayer every game thereafter.assfly wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:45 am Congratulations Lions. Best team won it, and Itoje was simply phenominal. It was like he was born for these big games. I enjoy his battles with Faf.
I called it earlier in the week that I could see the Lions taking it in the 2nd half.
I think our starting front row actually did very well, better than the holding move that was expected of them. I would have given them 10 more minutes in the 2nd half, but nobody predicted the replacement front row to be so poor.
Kwagga is a great player, but can we just stop the experiment of him as an 8 right now. I'd start Marco at 8 next week, we need some serious beef and someone with a much stronger ground game.
I thought DdA and Am looked in great form, just a pity they didn't get more ball.
But wow, did we lose the aerial battle. I agree with Blake that there is merit to our kicking game, as when we win the ball back it feeds the momentum that the Boks are looking for. But we were thoroughly found out today. I wonder if they need to consider Nkosi who is so good under the high ball.
Pressure is on us now.
I don't like it, but there is no denying it is effective. Look how we kicked against Wales in the RWC semi, which had similarities to yesterday's game. The big difference was our inability to win the kicks back.Sards wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:50 am The kicking game is soooooo 2007. Only for exiting your 22 really. It is not going to work with a tiny winger like Kolbe anyway. It was tried after 2007 and failed in 2011. Everyone forgot about it in 2019 when Rassie copied it and won that RWC. Trick is to grow the team from that. Not play for a wing and a prayer every game thereafter.
Our lineout drive was kak. Itoje disrupt it every time.assfly wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:04 am Considering the amount of penalties we won, I would have loved to have seen us kick to the corner and go for the lineout and a drive.