NPR

Bradbury and Vellacott

Well the Thistle were right.

Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

Well that has got some twitter knickers in a twist

You know what. I'm of the mind "fuck it!" The tournament is fucked, yes it would be good to finish 3rd but if/when they lose it counts for trout really. Might as well try something a bit different.

That said, the rona has finally caught me so instead of working all weekend I'll now be watching the match. Record defeat inbound.

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:23 pm Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

Not sure he'd be on the bench if there's a bust up.

If Ireland rack up 30/40 on Scotland - is it the end of the road for Townsend?

I like neeps wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:34 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:23 pm Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

Not sure he'd be on the bench if there's a bust up.

If Ireland rack up 30/40 on Scotland - is it the end of the road for Townsend?

No chance Townsend leaves before the RWC

Fraser Brown to come on and keep the dumb penalty count high once Zander goes off.

I'm pretty concerned about the forwards selection. Gray, injury or not, was the worst performing second row in the 1st two weeks. Two 7s v the Irish back row is questionable too.

Won't matter what Kinghorn does if we are done up front.

Also we are a 1st min injury away from moving the starting 10. Idiotic.

Begbie wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:40 pm Fraser Brown to come on and keep the dumb penalty count high once Zander goes off.

Aye, I was thinking that.

Two jumpers against a really good line out and Brown has the worst of the three hooker's darts. The other teams didn't really go after our line out, Ireland almost certainly will.

Biffer wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:38 pm

I like neeps wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:34 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:23 pm Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

Not sure he'd be on the bench if there's a bust up.

If Ireland rack up 30/40 on Scotland - is it the end of the road for Townsend?

No chance Townsend leaves before the RWC

We are regressing. SA handled us easily in autumn. If Ireland wax us then you might think a new coach is needed to give us a snowballs chance of the QFs.

When this inevitably ends in a hiding it SHOULD be Toonie who takes the flack. It will be Kinghorn though, which is grossly unfair. Toonie has left him for the Wolves here.

I like neeps wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:54 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:38 pm

I like neeps wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:34 pm

Not sure he'd be on the bench if there's a bust up.

If Ireland rack up 30/40 on Scotland - is it the end of the road for Townsend?

No chance Townsend leaves before the RWC

We are regressing. SA handled us easily in autumn. If Ireland wax us then you might think a new coach is needed to give us a snowballs chance of the QFs.

No argument from me. But there's no way the SRU will change tack at this point

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:23 pm Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

I kmow he's got previous but what exactly is it that Russell is supposed to have done this time?

I don't think we are regressing. Ireland and France are clearly out in front in the 6N. Scotland Eng and Wal are all close. We beat England on the back foot, we lost narrowly away to Wales and we got pumped by France who were not only very good that day, they had the luck of the bounce and the ear of the ref (in fact I remember now that on a rewatch it wasn't as bad as it first seemed)

Where Ireland have become a top team is in their accuracy. Their set piece usually functions well, they are not at all sloppy around the breakdown, they are professionally cynical or cynically professional, depending on how you choose to see it - the best sides always are.
They are well set up defensively and run good lines in attack, it's not a masterplan, just the basics done well.

I hope Townsend can view things objectively and has picked Gray and Brown because of what they are doing in training and showing more than the guys in contention for the shirt

SaintK wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:14 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:23 pm Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

I kmow he's got previous but what exactly is it that Russell is supposed to have done this time?

He and Hoggy had some beers on Saturday after the game. Allegedly.

Dave Cherry is our best nuts and bolts hooker and continually over looked. He's a better hooker than Brown now.

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:28 pm

SaintK wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:14 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:23 pm Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

I kmow he's got previous but what exactly is it that Russell is supposed to have done this time?

He and Hoggy had some beers on Saturday after the game. Allegedly.

Ah I see! So Russell loses his starting place and the captain keeps his
Sounds like a load of nonsense

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:28 pm

SaintK wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:14 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:23 pm Unless Finn is injured, BK starting at 10 would confirm the rumours of a bust-up in the camp. No way Toony will start him away to Ireland otherwise.

EDIT: and Finn on the bench. Toony is clearly pissed off with him then.

I kmow he's got previous but what exactly is it that Russell is supposed to have done this time?

He and Hoggy had some beers on Saturday after the game. Allegedly.

Must be pish. Can't keep one in place and bin the other.

Could Russell not have just been dropped from the starting XV as he’s been playing sh!t?

Tattie wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:33 pm Could Russell not have just been dropped from the starting XV as he’s been playing sh!t?

It’s possible. But to do it abruptly before playing one of the best sides in the 6N away from home would be peak tombola. Changing it up for Italy would have made more sense.

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:45 pm

Tattie wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:33 pm Could Russell not have just been dropped from the starting XV as he’s been playing sh!t?

It’s possible. But to do it abruptly before playing one of the best sides in the 6N away from home would be peak tombola. Changing it up for Italy would have made more sense.

Or the intention was Kinghorn to start one but couldn't last week.

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:05 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:45 pm

Tattie wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:33 pm Could Russell not have just been dropped from the starting XV as he’s been playing sh!t?

It’s possible. But to do it abruptly before playing one of the best sides in the 6N away from home would be peak tombola. Changing it up for Italy would have made more sense.

Or the intention was Kinghorn to start one but couldn't last week.

But against Ireland when we have a chance of finishing 3rd? Seems mad.

Someone just told me the alleged piss up was in Edinburgh when they got home that night

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:23 pm

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:05 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:45 pm

It’s possible. But to do it abruptly before playing one of the best sides in the 6N away from home would be peak tombola. Changing it up for Italy would have made more sense.

Or the intention was Kinghorn to start one but couldn't last week.

But against Ireland when we have a chance of finishing 3rd? Seems mad.

Someone just told me the alleged piss up was in Edinburgh when they got home that night

Does 3 to 5th matter to them really if they are set on developing a long term plan and the starting 10 is a little off form?

If both Russell and Hogg were on the piss and he's only punished Russell then that is pretty weak and taking the easy way out.

We have played Ireland with the same 10 and centres and lost, sometimes easily. It is a bug leap to throw BK in v Ireland but Townsend has had no answer before using the same players so why not try something different.

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:10 pm

Slick wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:23 pm

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:05 pm

Or the intention was Kinghorn to start one but couldn't last week.

But against Ireland when we have a chance of finishing 3rd? Seems mad.

Someone just told me the alleged piss up was in Edinburgh when they got home that night

Does 3 to 5th matter to them really if they are set on developing a long term plan and the starting 10 is a little off form?

If both Russell and Hogg were on the piss and he's only punished Russell then that is pretty weak and taking the easy way out.

We have played Ireland with the same 10 and centres and lost, sometimes easily. It is a bug leap to throw BK in v Ireland but Townsend has had no answer before using the same players so why not try something different.

Someone has to explain then why Hastings who has only ever been at worst passable and at best a good international 10 needs upgraded on? Hastings is a better back up 10 than our depth at 11,14 and 15...

There's a big difference between 3rd and 5th - we've been told for years (and I agree) winning breeds winning and we're building, third is great for us etc etc. If we lose by 15+ to Ireland this has been a bad six nations and more questions than answers.

I like neeps wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:15 pm

Someone has to explain then why Hastings who has only ever been at worst passable and at best a good international 10 needs upgraded on? Hastings is a better back up 10 than our depth at 11,14 and 15...

There's a big difference between 3rd and 5th - we've been told for years (and I agree) winning breeds winning and we're building, third is great for us etc etc. If we lose by 15+ to Ireland this has been a bad six nations and more questions than answers.

I'm not Townsend lover but he made it clear in the pre 6N press conference he'd given Hastings things to work on. The reducing role of Hastings isn't new. It started in the autumn when he got about 12min across all games.

I really don't think the risk of finishing 5th would stop the coaches following through on plans or thoughts they've had especially with an off colour Finn. They had Kinghorn as their 2nd choice 10 when available all championship, the first choice 10 is off his best so they've made a change.

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:15 pm

Someone has to explain then why Hastings who has only ever been at worst passable and at best a good international 10 needs upgraded on? Hastings is a better back up 10 than our depth at 11,14 and 15...

There's a big difference between 3rd and 5th - we've been told for years (and I agree) winning breeds winning and we're building, third is great for us etc etc. If we lose by 15+ to Ireland this has been a bad six nations and more questions than answers.

I'm not Townsend lover but he made it clear in the pre 6N press conference he'd given Hastings things to work on. The reducing role of Hastings isn't new. It started in the autumn when he got about 12min across all games.

I really don't think the risk of finishing 5th would stop the coaches following through on plans or thoughts they've had especially with an off colour Finn. They had Kinghorn as their 2nd choice 10 when available all championship, the first choice 10 is off his best so they've made a change.

Was Hastings role in autumn much different to his role when Russell plays? Russell usually plays a full 80. Sometimes they shift him into the centres but that's never really worked. But Kinghorn hasn't shown anything of yet to suggest he can take on Ireland in Dublin. The game most similar he'll have played was Vs Munster and that's been his by far worst appearance at 10 (and I think overall he's done very well, but against the weaker teams and Connacht). Mike Blair's Edinburgh gameplan is a lot different to Scotland as well as the gameplan isn't as kick focused as Scotland's. Is Kinghorn the field general to have us playing in the right areas? I can't think of any evidence to suggest so. So are we completely changing the gameplan again? Or asking a rookie 10 to play a much different game that doesn't lean to his natural skills? At Edinburgh his best moments have been taking the ball to the line and taking chances in a scheme where Blair has always schemed up two or three options.

I think the coaches best be careful. Finishing 5th in a six nations with so much excitement preceding it and especially after the first game Vs England would be Townsend's worst campaign by far. If we get gubbed he's going to be in a tough spot. Surely nobody would have confidence in him beating SA or Ireland in the RWC? I'm not sure Dodson is in the business of back to back pool exits.

Big D wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:15 pm

Someone has to explain then why Hastings who has only ever been at worst passable and at best a good international 10 needs upgraded on? Hastings is a better back up 10 than our depth at 11,14 and 15...

There's a big difference between 3rd and 5th - we've been told for years (and I agree) winning breeds winning and we're building, third is great for us etc etc. If we lose by 15+ to Ireland this has been a bad six nations and more questions than answers.

I'm not Townsend lover but he made it clear in the pre 6N press conference he'd given Hastings things to work on. The reducing role of Hastings isn't new. It started in the autumn when he got about 12min across all games.

I really don't think the risk of finishing 5th would stop the coaches following through on plans or thoughts they've had especially with an off colour Finn. They had Kinghorn as their 2nd choice 10 when available all championship, the first choice 10 is off his best so they've made a change.

It bloody well should, not least due to the £1m difference in prize money. That's a marquee pro on a 3 year contract, or 5 first year pros on 3 year deals. Not to mention the psyche of the players, the sponsorship opportunities and the good will of the fans.

Edinburgh leg of the 1872 confirmed as Saturday 21st May 6.30pm.

Hopefully a big day out and a good crowd (30k+?)

I like neeps wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:43 am
Was Hastings role in autumn much different to his role when Russell plays? Russell usually plays a full 80. Sometimes they shift him into the centres but that's never really worked. But Kinghorn hasn't shown anything of yet to suggest he can take on Ireland in Dublin. The game most similar he'll have played was Vs Munster and that's been his by far worst appearance at 10 (and I think overall he's done very well, but against the weaker teams and Connacht). Mike Blair's Edinburgh gameplan is a lot different to Scotland as well as the gameplan isn't as kick focused as Scotland's. Is Kinghorn the field general to have us playing in the right areas? I can't think of any evidence to suggest so. So are we completely changing the gameplan again? Or asking a rookie 10 to play a much different game that doesn't lean to his natural skills? At Edinburgh his best moments have been taking the ball to the line and taking chances in a scheme where Blair has always schemed up two or three options.

Hastings got 8 and 7 minutes v Aus and SA and was dropped v Japan (maybe injured). Normally when fit he'd have had a start in the November games, he didn't the year before because he got hurt v Wales.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:43 am I think the coaches best be careful. Finishing 5th in a six nations with so much excitement preceding it and especially after the first game Vs England would be Townsend's worst campaign by far. If we get gubbed he's going to be in a tough spot. Surely nobody would have confidence in him beating SA or Ireland in the RWC? I'm not sure Dodson is in the business of back to back pool exits.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:00 am

It bloody well should, not least due to the £1m difference in prize money. That's a marquee pro on a 3 year contract, or 5 first year pros on 3 year deals. Not to mention the psyche of the players, the sponsorship opportunities and the good will of the fans.

Risk was probably the wrong word on my part because they wont see it as a risk, but GT and the coaches for whatever reason see BK as the second choice 10 for the 6N. They have committed to that and stuck with it. Russell has been middling to poor all 6N so it is natural for coaches to look towards what is next in line (to them).

I think Townsend has a real mental block v Ireland. He just can't scheme a way to really trouble them.

Piss up rumours were true - captain and vice captains involved.

I think this shows the (lack of) respect Townsend commands.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:01 pm

Piss up rumours were true - captain and vice captains involved.

I think this shows the (lack of) respect Townsend commands.

Not condoning the players' behaviour at all but it surely signals that Townsend has lost the dressing room. He is looking more and more like a dead man walking. A gubbing tomorrow should spell the end of the road for him IMO.

Thats extremely disappointing on many fronts. The fact Townsend clearly doesn't have their respect. The small mindedness from them, if you were serious you'd wait until Saturday night. Does this mean they're already beaten?

Has Russell been dropped because of this? Same with Tuipulotu? I'd hope not considering the rest have retained their positions.

Soapy wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:01 pm

Piss up rumours were true - captain and vice captains involved.

I think this shows the (lack of) respect Townsend commands.

Not condoning the players' behaviour at all but it surely signals that Townsend has lost the dressing room. He is looking more and more like a dead man walking. A gubbing tomorrow should spell the end of the road for him IMO.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Not a good look for Toonie at all. Clearly not a good look for Price, Hogg and Russell.

Jock42 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:17 pm Thats extremely disappointing on many fronts. The fact Townsend clearly doesn't have their respect. The small mindedness from them, if you were serious you'd wait until Saturday night. Does this mean they're already beaten?

Has Russell been dropped because of this? Same with Tuipulotu? I'd hope not considering the rest have retained their positions.

I can't see why Hogg, Price and Johnson would start. I think the punishment is the talking to. It's clear Townsend has lost control and dropping the leadership group won't regain it now. When Russell was ostracised Hogg was fully supportive, now he's on the beers with him!

Disappointing all round. The fans are let down too.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:01 pm

Piss up rumours were true - captain and vice captains involved.

I think this shows the (lack of) respect Townsend commands.

Might show a lack of communication too.

That's alot of important players to go rogue including Johnson and Graham who have never really been known as "troublemakers".

I'm not rushing to hammer the players on this one tbh. Look at the players involved; first choice 9, 10 (usually), 12 (probably), wing and 15. Plus a newbie. Were they out getting blootered? Out trying to clear the air away from the team hotel? Etc.

Sure it is ill advised but there is always nuances to these stories.

Big D wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:42 pm

I like neeps wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:01 pm

Piss up rumours were true - captain and vice captains involved.

I think this shows the (lack of) respect Townsend commands.

Might show a lack of communication too.

That's alot of important players to go rogue including Johnson and Graham who have never really been known as "troublemakers".

I'm not rushing to hammer the players on this one tbh. Look at the players involved; first choice 9, 10 (usually), 12 (probably), wing and 15. Plus a newbie. Were they out getting blootered? Out trying to clear the air away from the team hotel? Etc.

Sure it is ill advised but there is always nuances to these stories.

Well, apparently Finn was absolutely smashed in Bar Napoli. I find it hard to blame Townsend for 6 players sneaking out including his 2 fucking captains. Really disappointed Hogg was part of it. What the fuck were they thinking.

Finn getting smashed on the train back to London after the Wales game, his less than top class sportsman physique, poor performances, all seems to be adding up to an issue that maybe needs to be addressed

Ive had a drive to Aberdeen and back to mull over the Kinghorn thing and I’m actually now quite excited and intrigued.

We have to trust that Townsend really does see something in him at 10 and is obviously confident enough in him. Kinghorn is consistently cited by team mates as being the most skilful they have ever played with.

I mentioned after his last game for Edinburgh, when he was excellent, that maybe being in the Scotland set up with Toony and Finn had given him some confidence and some specific training over a period of time which had helped and he’s had another 2 or 3 weeks.

I saw comments earlier that Townsend had thrown him to the lions and Kinghorn would get the blame if he was crap but I actually think Townsends comments about him leading up to the game have been really supportive and I imagine that will continue even if he has a shocker.

Anyway, as I say, looking forward to it now

Slick wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:13 pm

Big D wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:42 pm

I like neeps wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:01 pm

Piss up rumours were true - captain and vice captains involved.

I think this shows the (lack of) respect Townsend commands.

Might show a lack of communication too.

That's alot of important players to go rogue including Johnson and Graham who have never really been known as "troublemakers".

I'm not rushing to hammer the players on this one tbh. Look at the players involved; first choice 9, 10 (usually), 12 (probably), wing and 15. Plus a newbie. Were they out getting blootered? Out trying to clear the air away from the team hotel? Etc.

Sure it is ill advised but there is always nuances to these stories.

Well, apparently Finn was absolutely smashed in Bar Napoli. I find it hard to blame Townsend for 6 players sneaking out including his 2 fucking captains. Really disappointed Hogg was part of it. What the fuck were they thinking.

Finn getting smashed on the train back to London after the Wales game, his less than top class sportsman physique, poor performances, all seems to be adding up to an issue that maybe needs to be addressed

It's not Townsend's fault - it just shows the players don't respect his authority.