The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

Definitely for the Scottish pro teams. Having said that, things are looking slightly rosier at Scotland level than I thought (although not at all good). Between McCallum, Gamble, Wilson, Walker and Sebastian you have to think one can be good enough to be a solid backup and one a squad player both to sit behind Fagerson in the pecking order when Nel inevitably retires? It's definitely the area of most concern in the wider squad in my (and I think in everyone else's) opinion. We could really do with a Zander level beyond-his-years freak breaking through at Edinburgh or Glasgow right now, but I haven't heard any excitement on that level about any of the young guys coming up through the age-grades.

[I like neeps]

Definitely for the Scottish pro teams. Having said that, things are looking slightly rosier at Scotland level than I thought (although not at all good). Between McCallum, Gamble, Wilson, Walker and Sebastian you have to think one can be good enough to be a solid backup and one a squad player both to sit behind Fagerson in the pecking order when Nel inevitably retires? It's definitely the area of most concern in the wider squad in my (and I think in everyone else's) opinion. We could really do with a Zander level beyond-his-years freak breaking through at Edinburgh or Glasgow right now, but I haven't heard any excitement on that level about any of the young guys coming up through the age-grades.

Simon Berghan is a capable international prop as well. I guess we'll find out about Sebastian and/or Walker. But realistically we need them playing regular games. It looks like Sebastian is at best back up at Scarlets, Walker is third choice at Glasgow.

Not willing to say anything about Walker, Wilson, Gamble or any young prop because they have to have regular gametime which none do and so they're unlikely to make it. Norrie for the under20s is interesting because he's got three years eligibility so is a year ahead and looks a big boy. But the reality is until the SRU work out how to make the pro clubs play young props we'll always be scratching down the back of the sofa for someone currently in a different country having come through someone else's age grades whether that's England/SA/NZ wherever. They don't need a Fagerson esk freak because he's fairly unique in that. They need to find a development pathway.

[KingBlairhorn]

Definitely for the Scottish pro teams. Having said that, things are looking slightly rosier at Scotland level than I thought (although not at all good). Between McCallum, Gamble, Wilson, Walker and Sebastian you have to think one can be good enough to be a solid backup and one a squad player both to sit behind Fagerson in the pecking order when Nel inevitably retires? It's definitely the area of most concern in the wider squad in my (and I think in everyone else's) opinion. We could really do with a Zander level beyond-his-years freak breaking through at Edinburgh or Glasgow right now, but I haven't heard any excitement on that level about any of the young guys coming up through the age-grades.

Simon Berghan is a capable international prop as well. I guess we'll find out about Sebastian and/or Walker. But realistically we need them playing regular games. It looks like Sebastian is at best back up at Scarlets, Walker is third choice at Glasgow.

Not willing to say anything about Walker, Wilson, Gamble or any young prop because they have to have regular gametime which none do and so they're unlikely to make it. Norrie for the under20s is interesting because he's got three years eligibility so is a year ahead and looks a big boy. But the reality is until the SRU work out how to make the pro clubs play young props we'll always be scratching down the back of the sofa for someone currently in a different country having come through someone else's age grades whether that's England/SA/NZ wherever. They don't need a Fagerson esk freak because he's fairly unique in that. They need to find a development pathway.

Berghan seems to have dropped right back - he's played fewer than 500 minutes of rugby in each of the last two years whereas in previous seasons he was doing double that or more. I can't imagine that is game management as he is only just 31. Hopefully he comes again though. Walker managed just over 250 minutes which is obviously not a lot. If he can progress to more than 500 this coming season that would be good progress to a place as a squad player/bench option.

The Fagerson-esk freak comment was about timing - we have a potentially large gap when Nel goes that we will struggle to fill - it would be useful if someone smashed onto the club scene at a ludicrously young age like Zander did.

[Tichtheid]

Definitely for the Scottish pro teams. Having said that, things are looking slightly rosier at Scotland level than I thought (although not at all good). Between McCallum, Gamble, Wilson, Walker and Sebastian you have to think one can be good enough to be a solid backup and one a squad player both to sit behind Fagerson in the pecking order when Nel inevitably retires? It's definitely the area of most concern in the wider squad in my (and I think in everyone else's) opinion. We could really do with a Zander level beyond-his-years freak breaking through at Edinburgh or Glasgow right now, but I haven't heard any excitement on that level about any of the young guys coming up through the age-grades.

Simon Berghan is a capable international prop as well. I guess we'll find out about Sebastian and/or Walker. But realistically we need them playing regular games. It looks like Sebastian is at best back up at Scarlets, Walker is third choice at Glasgow.

Not willing to say anything about Walker, Wilson, Gamble or any young prop because they have to have regular gametime which none do and so they're unlikely to make it. Norrie for the under20s is interesting because he's got three years eligibility so is a year ahead and looks a big boy. But the reality is until the SRU work out how to make the pro clubs play young props we'll always be scratching down the back of the sofa for someone currently in a different country having come through someone else's age grades whether that's England/SA/NZ wherever. They don't need a Fagerson esk freak because he's fairly unique in that. They need to find a development pathway.

Berghan seems to have dropped right back - he's played fewer than 500 minutes of rugby in each of the last two years whereas in previous seasons he was doing double that or more. I can't imagine that is game management as he is only just 31. Hopefully he comes again though. Walker managed just over 250 minutes which is obviously not a lot. If he can progress to more than 500 this coming season that would be good progress to a place as a squad player/bench option.

The Fagerson-esk freak comment was about timing - we have a potentially large gap when Nel goes that we will struggle to fill - it would be useful if someone smashed onto the club scene at a ludicrously young age like Zander did.

You can be taught the technique, the old way was for young props to have their heid shoved oot their airses by experience opponents - usually some Border farmer wi nae front teeth, gradually you become the one dishing it out.
I think it's easier now that props have to stay relatively straight, it looks to me that if you can get your back parallel to the ground, have good flex in the hips and good leg drive you will do okay, but you have to be strong. Look at WP Nel's hamstrings, he is ridiculously powerful in the legs.
A couple of years of deadlifts and squats should see a young prop right, but they also have to have the right mix of masochism and sadism, you have to not mind the pain and actively enjoy hurting your opponent. You have to be hard.

You can do all that but ultimately you have to get game time, that is the difficult bit.

[KingBlairhorn]

Simon Berghan is a capable international prop as well. I guess we'll find out about Sebastian and/or Walker. But realistically we need them playing regular games. It looks like Sebastian is at best back up at Scarlets, Walker is third choice at Glasgow.

Not willing to say anything about Walker, Wilson, Gamble or any young prop because they have to have regular gametime which none do and so they're unlikely to make it. Norrie for the under20s is interesting because he's got three years eligibility so is a year ahead and looks a big boy. But the reality is until the SRU work out how to make the pro clubs play young props we'll always be scratching down the back of the sofa for someone currently in a different country having come through someone else's age grades whether that's England/SA/NZ wherever. They don't need a Fagerson esk freak because he's fairly unique in that. They need to find a development pathway.

Berghan seems to have dropped right back - he's played fewer than 500 minutes of rugby in each of the last two years whereas in previous seasons he was doing double that or more. I can't imagine that is game management as he is only just 31. Hopefully he comes again though. Walker managed just over 250 minutes which is obviously not a lot. If he can progress to more than 500 this coming season that would be good progress to a place as a squad player/bench option.

The Fagerson-esk freak comment was about timing - we have a potentially large gap when Nel goes that we will struggle to fill - it would be useful if someone smashed onto the club scene at a ludicrously young age like Zander did.

You can be taught the technique, the old way was for young props to have their heid shoved oot their airses by experience opponents - usually some Border farmer wi nae front teeth, gradually you become the one dishing it out.
I think it's easier now that props have to stay relatively straight, it looks to me that if you can get your back parallel to the ground, have good flex in the hips and good leg drive you will do okay, but you have to be strong. Look at WP Nel's hamstrings, he is ridiculously powerful in the legs.
A couple of years of deadlifts and squats should see a young prop right, but they also have to have the right mix of masochism and sadism, you have to not mind the pain and actively enjoy hurting your opponent. You have to be hard.

You can do all that but ultimately you have to get game time, that is the difficult bit.

To an extent I think you are right, if you can hold a scrum at international level you will probably get a pro contract. The modern prop is changing though, to be effective at international and top club pro level you also have to be able to hit 15-20%+ of rucks first, to win turnovers and to tackle at 80%+. You have to think most coaches are looking at the likes of Furlong and saying that what they really expect in a prop now is to be 19st+, to do all the things previously mentioned, but also to be able to pass off both hands, to be able to offload, to be able to show a turn of pace and a bit of footwork too and also to be able to do all that for 80 minutes week after week. Are props the new backrows, expected to be good at everything?! Tighthied, you don't get to answer that question, we all know your opinion already

[Jock42]

Weegies have got Bath and Perpignan.

[Tichtheid]

Weegies have got Bath and Perpignan.

Embra have Saracens and Castres

[Jock42]

Aye that's a pity. Was hoping for tigers

[Tichtheid]

Aye that's a pity. Was hoping for tigers

On a plus note I should be able to get to the Sarries ground, if I can get a ticket.

I've no doubt they will be a different proposition from when we beat them away this season, but so will we, Mike Blair had only been a head coach for a few months and with a bit of luck we'll be able to field a full strength outfit, that's where we struggle against these teams, once we lose a first choice we struggle in a lot of positions for players of a similar calibre. We weren't far off full noise in that game, but we were missing Mata, Ritchie, Kinghorn and Graham.
They were missing a few too, but I'd like to see both teams at full strength.

[Biffer]

Aye that's a pity. Was hoping for tigers

So was I. Will probably go to London though, and most likely to the south of France as well.

[I like neeps]

Aye that's a pity. Was hoping for tigers

So was I. Will probably go to London though, and most likely to the south of France as well.

You'll love the player led enterprise and community feel of the ground

[Biffer]

Aye that's a pity. Was hoping for tigers

So was I. Will probably go to London though, and most likely to the south of France as well.

You'll love the player led enterprise and community feel of the ground

Well, obviously it’s the former players businesses I’m going for.

[Slick]

Anyone buying tickets for the Autumn internationals? Haven’t bothered with my debentures but might get one for NZ. Seems quite a bit of apathy towards them this year

[SaintK]

Anyone buying tickets for the Autumn internationals? Haven’t bothered with my debentures but might get one for NZ. Seems quite a bit of apathy towards them this year

Surely it will be a sell out
I do international tickets for my club and we had twice as many applications as allocation even with the top price at £184

[Slick]

Anyone buying tickets for the Autumn internationals? Haven’t bothered with my debentures but might get one for NZ. Seems quite a bit of apathy towards them this year

Surely it will be a sell out
I do international tickets for my club and we had twice as many applications as allocation even with the top price at £184

I expect NZ will, not so sure about the others

[Big D]

Anyone buying tickets for the Autumn internationals? Haven’t bothered with my debentures but might get one for NZ. Seems quite a bit of apathy towards them this year

Applied for Fiji and Australia through my auld rugby club. Currently swithering about 6N tickets but 65quid for bronze tickers is steep.

[Slick]

Anyone buying tickets for the Autumn internationals? Haven’t bothered with my debentures but might get one for NZ. Seems quite a bit of apathy towards them this year

Applied for Fiji and Australia through my auld rugby club. Currently swithering about 6N tickets but 65quid for bronze tickers is steep.

Yeah, those tickets would have been £45 just a couple of years ago. I’ll swallow it for the 6N but just not interested enough in the AI’s

[Big D]

Anyone buying tickets for the Autumn internationals? Haven’t bothered with my debentures but might get one for NZ. Seems quite a bit of apathy towards them this year

Applied for Fiji and Australia through my auld rugby club. Currently swithering about 6N tickets but 65quid for bronze tickers is steep.

Yeah, those tickets would have been £45 just a couple of years ago. I’ll swallow it for the 6N but just not interested enough in the AI’s

Bronze is 29 for Arg/Aus, 45 for NZ and 25 and kids for 1 for the Fiji game. Much better value really.

[charltom]

Can someone tell me please: what TV channel will the Argentina games be on?

[Slick]

Can someone tell me please: what TV channel will the Argentina games be on?

SKY

[Jock42]

Can someone tell me please: what TV channel will the Argentina games be on?

SKY

No need to shout at this time of the morning

[Blackmac]

Applied for Fiji and Australia through my auld rugby club. Currently swithering about 6N tickets but 65quid for bronze tickers is steep.

Yeah, those tickets would have been £45 just a couple of years ago. I’ll swallow it for the 6N but just not interested enough in the AI’s

Bronze is 29 for Arg/Aus, 45 for NZ and 25 and kids for 1 for the Fiji game. Much better value really.

Bronze packages for Aust/Nz are £115 however I see there are only single seats available. Silver packages are £155. It's a lot of cash in the current climate. I know quite a few ex internationals that no longer take up their tickets due to the cost.

[Tichtheid]

Can someone tell me please: what TV channel will the Argentina games be on?

SKY

No need to shout at this time of the morning

I got a month of Sky Sports on Now TV for a tenner which covers all the July tests, it was from an email because I had previously subscribed, but maybe there are offers out there

[westport]

SKY

No need to shout at this time of the morning

I got a month of Sky Sports on Now TV for a tenner which covers all the July tests, it was from an email because I had previously subscribed, but maybe there are offers out there

I have used that previously but I see that it is currently 11.99 for 24 hours and 33.99 for a month.

[Tichtheid]

No need to shout at this time of the morning

I got a month of Sky Sports on Now TV for a tenner which covers all the July tests, it was from an email because I had previously subscribed, but maybe there are offers out there

I have used that previously but I see that it is currently 11.99 for 24 hours and 33.99 for a month.

I suppose when put in perspective with the price of going to one match as discussed above, thirty four quid isn't that much for all the NH v SH tests, but I have BT Sports and Premier Sports on subscription, so if I had to pay the full price I'd probably be looking at, ahem, other ways of watching.

[westport]

I got a month of Sky Sports on Now TV for a tenner which covers all the July tests, it was from an email because I had previously subscribed, but maybe there are offers out there

I have used that previously but I see that it is currently 11.99 for 24 hours and 33.99 for a month.

I suppose when put in perspective with the price of going to one match as discussed above, thirty four quid isn't that much for all the NH v SH tests, but I have BT Sports and Premier Sports on subscription, so if I had to pay the full price I'd probably be looking at, ahem, other ways of watching.

Like you say 34 is not too bad when you are getting all the games in the same place

[Big D]

Yeah, those tickets would have been £45 just a couple of years ago. I’ll swallow it for the 6N but just not interested enough in the AI’s

Bronze is 29 for Arg/Aus, 45 for NZ and 25 and kids for 1 for the Fiji game. Much better value really.

Bronze packages for Aust/Nz are £115 however I see there are only single seats available. Silver packages are £155. It's a lot of cash in the current climate. I know quite a few ex internationals that no longer take up their tickets due to the cost.

That's a bit strange. The one of prices on my club applications are:

Scotland v Aus (adult/U18):
Platinum - £80/£27
Gold - £70/£27
Silver - £45/£22
Bronze £29/£22

Fiji:
P - £55/£25
G - £45/£25
S - £35/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £25/ £15 (U12's - £1)

NZ:
P - £95/£40
G - £85/£40
S - £65/£30
B - £45/£25

Arg:
P - £74/£27
G - £64/£27
S - £45/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £29/£22 (U12's - £1)

[Big D]

15. Rory Hutchinson - Northampton Saints - 5 caps
14. Darcy Graham - Edinburgh Rugby - 27 caps
13. Mark Bennett - Edinburgh Rugby - 24 caps
12. Sam Johnson - Glasgow Warriors - 24 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe - Worcester Warriors - 16 caps
10. Blair Kinghorn - Edinburgh Rugby - 31 caps
9. Ali Price - Glasgow Warriors - (Vice-Captain) - 51 caps

1. Pierre Schoeman - Edinburgh Rugby - 9 caps
2. George Turner - Glasgow Warriors - 25 caps
3. Zander Fagerson - Glasgow Warriors - 47 caps
4. Grant Gilchrist - Edinburgh Rugby - (Captain) - 53 caps
5. Jonny Gray - Exeter Chiefs - 67 caps
6. Magnus Bradbury - Edinburgh Rugby - 18 caps
7. Luke Crosbie - Edinburgh Rugby - 1 cap
8. Matt Fagerson - Glasgow Warriors - 21 caps

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman - Sale Sharks - 2 caps
17. Rory Sutherland - Worcester Warriors - 18 caps
18. Javan Sebastian - Scarlets - 1 cap
19. Sam Skinner - Exeter Chiefs - 20 caps
20. Rory Darge - Glasgow Warriors - 4 caps
21. Ben White - London Irish - 4 caps
22. Ross Thompson - Glasgow Warriors - 1 cap
23. Sione Tuipulotu - Glasgow Warriors - 5 caps

Disappointed for Smith. Seems off they are playing Hutchinson who is on fire at centre out of position at full back without having Smith on the bench in case a centre goes down unless it is injury related. Tuiplolotu seems to be well liked by coaches despite international performances being very average to below par.

Good to see Bennett get a game and Fagerson back at 8. Gray is very lucky as he has been poor for Exeter at the end of the season and especially weak in contact.

[I like neeps]

Agree - Hutchinson is Scotland's form 12, looked ropey at best for saints when he filled in at 15 and Sam Johnson has been pish for a while now. Argentina are going to be high ball centered and have Boff Vs an out of position Hutchinson. Won't end well as Leicester showed when they played saints with hutch at 15. Very poor selection from Townsend.

Good for Bennett and Crosbie! Thought Crosbie would be back to the bench. Kinghorn Vs a good team at 10 will be interesting. Can't see past an Argentina win here.

[Tichtheid]

Disappointed for Smith. Seems off they are playing Hutchinson who is on fire at centre out of position at full back without having Smith on the bench in case a centre goes down unless it is injury related. Tuiplolotu seems to be well liked by coaches despite international performances being very average to below par.

Good to see Bennett get a game and Fagerson back at 8. Gray is very lucky as he has been poor for Exeter at the end of the season and especially weak in contact.

I agree with all of that, and I'd add that Cherry is unlucky having played well all season, including last week, and his darts are very good. George Horne is also unlucky given he played very well last week, but that counts for nothing it would seem because Hoyland would still be on tour if it did

[Big D]

Disappointed for Smith. Seems off they are playing Hutchinson who is on fire at centre out of position at full back without having Smith on the bench in case a centre goes down unless it is injury related. Tuiplolotu seems to be well liked by coaches despite international performances being very average to below par.

Good to see Bennett get a game and Fagerson back at 8. Gray is very lucky as he has been poor for Exeter at the end of the season and especially weak in contact.

I agree with all of that, and I'd add that Cherry is unlucky having played well all season, including last week, and his darts are very good. George Horne is also unlucky given he played very well last week, but that counts for nothing it would seem because Hoyland would still be on tour if it did

I still need to be convinced Cherry isn't our best hooker. Disagree on Horne though, thought he was no more than ok, but I thought that about 9-13 and Tuipolotu got picked.

[KingBlairhorn]

This is one of those selections Toonie likes to make that he (presumably justifies) by saying he has the players on the pitch to adjust if it doesn't work. Personally I think any situation that requires multiple changes to make it work is too disruptive (i.e. Thompson to 10, Kinghorn to FB, Hutch to 12 or off). Not only does it necessitate multiple player moves thereby disrupting the whole backline, it ends with your best 10 out of position, potentially your best/in form centre out of the game and it uses up a number of your options for changes later in the game. There's a difference between having Sam Skinner on the bench who can competently cover two positions to starting a player out of position and then jiggling around half the backline when it doesn't work.

[Biffer]

This is Toonie doing his 'I don't fancy X player but everyone is raving about him so I'll play him out of position watch him not be good and then claim I was right all along' thing again isn't it?

I'd have been in favour of having a 6-2 bench with Cummings or Christie instead of Tuipolotou.

[I like neeps]

This is Toonie doing his 'I don't fancy X player but everyone is raving about him so I'll play him out of position watch him not be good and then claim I was right all along' thing again isn't it?

I'd have been in favour of having a 6-2 bench with Cummings or Christie instead of Tuipolotou.

Don't think there's really any logic in doing that. Townsend can't be dumb enough to actively harm his team and the Scottish press have barely mentioned Hutchinson's very strong season anyway.

Townsend wants to test Hutchinson's versatility and has no faith in Smith. With Huw Jones out the only other option was Graham at 15 and another winger. It would have been fascinating if Hastings was fit if Townsend played Kinghorn at 15.

[Slick]

Who’s kicking goals?

[Tichtheid]

Who’s kicking goals?

Hutchinson and Kinghorn were pictured taking pots at goal, I'd say it will be one of them, Mark Bennett has also taken penalties in the past, but yeah, the best goal kicker playing in Scotland will be lining up for the opposition.

(edit, scratch that, Ross Thompson has a better kicking success rate)

[charltom]

This is Toonie doing his 'I don't fancy X player but everyone is raving about him so I'll play him out of position watch him not be good and then claim I was right all along' thing again isn't it?

I'd have been in favour of having a 6-2 bench with Cummings or Christie instead of Tuipolotou.

Don't think there's really any logic in doing that. Townsend can't be dumb enough to actively harm his team and the Scottish press have barely mentioned Hutchinson's very strong season anyway.

Townsend wants to test Hutchinson's versatility and has no faith in Smith. With Huw Jones out the only other option was Graham at 15 and another winger. It would have been fascinating if Hastings was fit if Townsend played Kinghorn at 15.

He'd have put Hastings at fullback, as he's done well there when previously called upon.

[clydecloggie]

This is Toonie doing his 'I don't fancy X player but everyone is raving about him so I'll play him out of position watch him not be good and then claim I was right all along' thing again isn't it?

I'd have been in favour of having a 6-2 bench with Cummings or Christie instead of Tuipolotou.

Don't think there's really any logic in doing that. Townsend can't be dumb enough to actively harm his team and the Scottish press have barely mentioned Hutchinson's very strong season anyway.

Townsend wants to test Hutchinson's versatility and has no faith in Smith. With Huw Jones out the only other option was Graham at 15 and another winger. It would have been fascinating if Hastings was fit if Townsend played Kinghorn at 15.

He'd have put Hastings at fullback, as he's done well there when previously called upon.

Might just be a bit of early panic about having to fill a Hogg-shaped hole in the Scotland XV.

[Big D]

This is one of those selections Toonie likes to make that he (presumably justifies) by saying he has the players on the pitch to adjust if it doesn't work. Personally I think any situation that requires multiple changes to make it work is too disruptive (i.e. Thompson to 10, Kinghorn to FB, Hutch to 12 or off). Not only does it necessitate multiple player moves thereby disrupting the whole backline, it ends with your best 10 out of position, potentially your best/in form centre out of the game and it uses up a number of your options for changes later in the game. There's a difference between having Sam Skinner on the bench who can competently cover two positions to starting a player out of position and then jiggling around half the backline when it doesn't work.

Edinburgh do that with Kinghorn too and it drives me nuts. If he's your best 10 treat him like that rather than FB/wing cover. Train all week with him at 10 then willing to.livw him after an injury early doors is daft.

[Yr Alban]

I was feeling really pleased that Hutchinson had made the team, but I hadn’t clocked where. FFS. Reminds me of the Lions fielding Hogg at 10 when he hadn’t played there since school.

Johnson has been bang out of form, so presumably it’s down to Huw Jones being injured and Toony not thinking Smith is ready.