A place where escape goats go to play
https://www.notplanetrugby.com/
Read about it. Didn't realise it was that bad!!!
Knife fight
I don't mind it. Forces lazy defenders to get off their arses if they want to win.Niegs wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:24 pm I'd watch more sevens if this happened more often... the long, unopposed runs are boring enough. Turning around and standing tall, waiting for someone to come before dotting down/the ref says to get on with it causes me an irrational level of anger (even if they claim it's just catching their breath... fudge off! Dot the ball down immediately! Catch your damn breath walking back to half!)
Should be 5 yard scrum to defenders? It didn’t look like it was knocked over by villierre hand so knock on?
Villiere was the defender, so it'd be a knock back if anything. To me it looks like he jars Vakatawa's hand rather than knocking the ball himself in which case, it's a fumble in goal by the attacking player and the 22 drop out.
You clearly misunderstood what I wrote. The knock on was from Racing 92 - I thought knock Ons in goal still countedsockwithaticket wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:44 pmVilliere was the defender, so it'd be a knock back if anything. To me it looks like he jars Vakatawa's hand rather than knocking the ball himself in which case, it's a fumble in goal by the attacking player and the 22 drop out.
Yeah sorry, I misread that as you saying the ball came off Villiere. It is a 5m scrum to defending team if the attacking team knock on in goal, I had a brainfart thinking that as the drop out would probably be more desirable for the defense they'd get it.Openside wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:48 pmYou clearly misunderstood what I wrote. The knock on was from Racing 92 - I thought knock Ons in goal still countedsockwithaticket wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:44 pmVilliere was the defender, so it'd be a knock back if anything. To me it looks like he jars Vakatawa's hand rather than knocking the ball himself in which case, it's a fumble in goal by the attacking player and the 22 drop out.Openside wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:38 pm
Should be 5 yard scrum to defenders? It didn’t look like it was knocked over by villierre hand so knock on?
I dunno. I think the botched tries fall into 3 categories:
There are some great ones there. I just really like the manshaming of being physically carried out by your opponents, and I say that as a Quins fan!Blake wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:46 pmI dunno. I think the botched tries fall into 3 categories:
3. Blind tackles where the played didn't realise an opponent was chasing him.
e.g. Robbie Fleck or Vakatawa in the OP
2. Attacking player fully aware of opponent, but trying to do something clever and getting caught out
Eg. Carling's non-try
1. Players showboating when NOBODY is even close and fucking up a scoring opportunity. To me, these are worse offenders that Carling's one...at least he was trying to get closer to the posts.
Eg. Some of these howlers
Freddie Burns' ending Bath's HEC campaign the 1st home match of Euro season has to be the most costly:
I've stopped watching, but when I do tune into highlights, it seems refs give them a "okay, put it down" after a few seconds.Blake wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:52 pm Sevens is nutritious for faffing about in the ingoal. Good selection there.
I’m waiting for the day when one of these fuckers gets a breakaway try and then waits 20-30 seconds for an opponent to get close before dotting the ball down, and then drops it.
That's dumb. It's part of the game. The ball is "live", it's up to the defenders to force the player to touch it down.Niegs wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:07 pmI've stopped watching, but when I do tune into highlights, it seems refs give them a "okay, put it down" after a few seconds.Blake wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:52 pm Sevens is nutritious for faffing about in the ingoal. Good selection there.
I’m waiting for the day when one of these fuckers gets a breakaway try and then waits 20-30 seconds for an opponent to get close before dotting the ball down, and then drops it.
On that basis so is "Use it" at the base of the ruck/scrum?JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:29 pmThat's dumb. It's part of the game. The ball is "live", it's up to the defenders to force the player to touch it down.Niegs wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:07 pmI've stopped watching, but when I do tune into highlights, it seems refs give them a "okay, put it down" after a few seconds.Blake wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:52 pm Sevens is nutritious for faffing about in the ingoal. Good selection there.
I’m waiting for the day when one of these fuckers gets a breakaway try and then waits 20-30 seconds for an opponent to get close before dotting the ball down, and then drops it.
I can’t stand this ref coaching/instructing stuff. If it’s legal get on with it, if it’s illegal penalise it. The players will learn soon enough. Won’t they?Openside wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:50 pmOn that basis so is "Use it" at the base of the ruck/scrum?JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:29 pmThat's dumb. It's part of the game. The ball is "live", it's up to the defenders to force the player to touch it down.Niegs wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:07 pm
I've stopped watching, but when I do tune into highlights, it seems refs give them a "okay, put it down" after a few seconds.
Yes, sort of. You could argue that there's little a team can do to legally affect that situation if the team in possession has full control of the ruck or scrum. But they have been legislating for this - I don't see the value in legislating for "must put down the ball if you have it after x seconds". The opposition have an easy solution: tackle the fucker like you're supposed to.Openside wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:50 pmOn that basis so is "Use it" at the base of the ruck/scrum?JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:29 pmThat's dumb. It's part of the game. The ball is "live", it's up to the defenders to force the player to touch it down.Niegs wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:07 pm
I've stopped watching, but when I do tune into highlights, it seems refs give them a "okay, put it down" after a few seconds.
I agree with that, players must decide whether the ball is out and up for grabs if they are wrong they will get penalised ditto the use it shite, if the No.9 takes too long ping him it will focus their minds.GogLais wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:58 pmI can’t stand this ref coaching/instructing stuff. If it’s legal get on with it, if it’s illegal penalise it. The players will learn soon enough. Won’t they?
Fair enough, I guess the point in sevens is all about speeding the game up (all players don't need to retire behind goal line for the kick etc. so spectators don't want to pay to watch someone standing holding a ball for two minutes (esp if they have a player in the bin)JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:02 pmYes, sort of. You could argue that there's little a team can do to legally affect that situation if the team in possession has full control of the ruck or scrum. But they have been legislating for this - I don't see the value in legislating for "must put down the ball if you have it after x seconds". The opposition have an easy solution: tackle the fucker like you're supposed to.
I don't think that should extend to forcing players to not do entirely legal things when the ball is in play, though!Openside wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:32 pmFair enough, I guess the point in sevens is all about speeding the game up (all players don't need to retire behind goal line for the kick etc. so spectators don't want to pay to watch someone standing holding a ball for two minutes (esp if they have a player in the bin)JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:02 pmYes, sort of. You could argue that there's little a team can do to legally affect that situation if the team in possession has full control of the ruck or scrum. But they have been legislating for this - I don't see the value in legislating for "must put down the ball if you have it after x seconds". The opposition have an easy solution: tackle the fucker like you're supposed to.Openside wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:50 pm
On that basis so is "Use it" at the base of the ruck/scrum?
its all down to interpretation, its legal to hold the ball in a scrum. All these calls are made to 'improve the spectacle'JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:50 pmI don't think that should extend to forcing players to not do entirely legal things when the ball is in play, though!Openside wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:32 pmFair enough, I guess the point in sevens is all about speeding the game up (all players don't need to retire behind goal line for the kick etc. so spectators don't want to pay to watch someone standing holding a ball for two minutes (esp if they have a player in the bin)JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:02 pm
Yes, sort of. You could argue that there's little a team can do to legally affect that situation if the team in possession has full control of the ruck or scrum. But they have been legislating for this - I don't see the value in legislating for "must put down the ball if you have it after x seconds". The opposition have an easy solution: tackle the fucker like you're supposed to.
Openside wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:50 pmOn that basis so is "Use it" at the base of the ruck/scrum?JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:29 pmThat's dumb. It's part of the game. The ball is "live", it's up to the defenders to force the player to touch it down.Niegs wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:07 pm
I've stopped watching, but when I do tune into highlights, it seems refs give them a "okay, put it down" after a few seconds.
It's bizarre. In what other similar sport can a player stand there unchallenged (unchallengable if there is such a word) for five seconds? Other than goalkeepers. I've watched rugby long enough so I should know the answer but I've no idea what changed to bring this about.Torquemada 1420 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:40 am
Opposition can't come round until the ball is out. Catch 22 there!
Rucks used to be a mess of bodies and tussling, creating ugly ball for 9's who just wanted to get the ball out quickly and cleanly.GogLais wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:39 am I've watched rugby long enough so I should know the answer but I've no idea what changed to bring this about.
Well, the five seconds prevents time wasting... not unlike basketball's 10 seconds to get the ball over half, the shot clock to use it in the attacking zone, and not being allowed to cross back over half. Before that, teams with a lead would take the piss and just pass it around. American football has 40 seconds to start a play or be penalized 5 yards (in Canada it's just 20 seconds).GogLais wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:39 am
It's bizarre. In what other similar sport can a player stand there unchallenged (unchallengable if there is such a word) for five seconds? Other than goalkeepers. I've watched rugby long enough so I should know the answer but I've no idea what changed to bring this about.
Thanks.Blake wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:00 amRucks used to be a mess of bodies and tussling, creating ugly ball for 9's who just wanted to get the ball out quickly and cleanly.GogLais wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:39 am I've watched rugby long enough so I should know the answer but I've no idea what changed to bring this about.
But over time much has changed:
- Rucks have become more formalised, so there is only a small window where it can be effectively disrupted
- 9's are protected when playing the ball, so they can take their time with less risk
- Defensive structures have evolved al lot and forwards give up competing for the ball to rather join the defensive line...creating less pressure to clear the ball
So yeah, previously there wasn't an incentive to slow it down at the base of a ruck, now there is.
- Attacking structures have evolved and realised that once the defense is set, you might as well use the extra time to try and set a more structured attack or kick chase
I don't know enough about basketball to comment but American football is a good example, the quarterback can't stand there inviolate for five seconds while he makes up his mind.Niegs wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:19 pmWell, the five seconds prevents time wasting... not unlike basketball's 10 seconds to get the ball over half, the shot clock to use it in the attacking zone, and not being allowed to cross back over half. Before that, teams with a lead would take the piss and just pass it around. American football has 40 seconds to start a play or be penalized 5 yards (in Canada it's just 20 seconds).GogLais wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:39 am
It's bizarre. In what other similar sport can a player stand there unchallenged (unchallengable if there is such a word) for five seconds? Other than goalkeepers. I've watched rugby long enough so I should know the answer but I've no idea what changed to bring this about.
But this will also backfire on the attacking team who's 9 will always think "Slow down, setup fo the next phase" instead of keeping the pace cracked on and his team moving across the gainline.Blake wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:00 am
So yeah, previously there wasn't an incentive to slow it down at the base of a ruck, now there is.
This. The law changes just made the likes of Parra and Serin worse because they now had an excuse.Sandstorm wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:10 pm But this will also backfire on the attacking team who's 9 will always think "Slow down, setup fo the next phase" instead of keeping the pace cracked on and his team moving across the gainline.
Hence the rise of the dreaded "Meerkat Scrummie"
When he's clearing quick ball from behind the ruck and flogging his team forward, no-one does it better than Snecky.
Agreed, but that the the one extreme. The other is a scrummy that does everything at breakneck speed all the time. Faf used to play like that early in his career. It also wasn’t great.Sandstorm wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:10 pmBut this will also backfire on the attacking team who's 9 will always think "Slow down, setup fo the next phase" instead of keeping the pace cracked on and his team moving across the gainline.Blake wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:00 am
So yeah, previously there wasn't an incentive to slow it down at the base of a ruck, now there is.
Hence the rise of the dreaded "Meerkat Scrummie"
When he's clearing quick ball from behind the ruck and flogging his team forward, no-one does it better than Snecky.