All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:15 pm
NPR
A place where escape goats go to play
https://www.notplanetrugby.com/
All Blacks sold their soul?
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Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:11 pm
That's a pretty high value to be putting on a minority stake.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:29 pm
More money to keep the lads at home?
... spare a thought for poor Scotland and Ireland, though! What will they do without their flee-wees!?
... spare a thought for poor Scotland and Ireland, though! What will they do without their flee-wees!?
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:15 pm
We’ll be fine, thanks. We’ve mainly switched to South Africans nowadays.Niegs wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:29 pm More money to keep the lads at home?
... spare a thought for poor Scotland and Ireland, though! What will they do without their flee-wees!?
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:17 pm
It would be quite short sighted to sell a permanent stake
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:19 pm
a lot cheaper, means you get more bang for your buck
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:44 pm
It's New Zealand dollars, it's not that much.ASMO wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:15 pm 465 million is a lot of pieces of silver
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/exclus ... 1612325492
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:02 pm
I think this came up on an earlier thread on this subject and I said the same thing then but if there is not enough money in NZ rugby for it to be massively profitable then I don't see how a private equity firm changes that.
Only way to make more money in sport is to either -
a) grow your fanbase, more merchandise sold, more eyeballs watching = more tickets sold, bigger TV contracts or
b) Fleece the existing fans by charging them more.
Regarding a I just don't think rugby has this massive capacity for international growth, as the article suggests. Its a niche sport that has confusing laws and is physically dangerous. Its always going to have limited accessibility and be hard to market to the masses.
Only way to make more money in sport is to either -
a) grow your fanbase, more merchandise sold, more eyeballs watching = more tickets sold, bigger TV contracts or
b) Fleece the existing fans by charging them more.
Regarding a I just don't think rugby has this massive capacity for international growth, as the article suggests. Its a niche sport that has confusing laws and is physically dangerous. Its always going to have limited accessibility and be hard to market to the masses.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:04 pm
They should concentrate more on their marketing/merch in Europe.Hugo wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:02 pm I think this came up on an earlier thread on this subject and I said the same thing then but if there is not enough money in NZ rugby for it to be massively profitable then I don't see how a private equity firm changes that.
Only way to make more money in sport is to either -
a) grow your fanbase, more merchandise sold, more eyeballs watching = more tickets sold, bigger TV contracts or
b) Fleece the existing fans by charging them more.
Regarding a I just don't think rugby has this massive capacity for international growth, as the article suggests. Its a niche sport that has confusing laws and is physically dangerous. Its always going to have limited accessibility and be hard to market to the masses.
Its always bizarre to find an All Blacks shop in the occasional regional town in France.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:17 pm
Yes, and although you might find it difficult to believe from the this bored, slightly less precious
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:27 pm
That's my thoughts too. Shares in the company should revert to NZR in say 25 years.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:31 pm
Nobody going to lease shares though. Still not real sure how it works, but obviously someone who knows puts a $ value on the marketing arm (and it's not the All Blacks being sold just 15% of the commercial arm isn't it? It seems to be how all the top brands in world sport are operating, and it sets up a seperate company that has a board of 5 NZR members and 2 Silver Lake as far as I can see. I would probably prefer it never happens but hells teeth I would prefer we didn't have to pay players to wear an All Black jersey.
Basically I would think NZR has to do something to get more $s ,mainly to - a; keep players and b; to fund the community game.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:42 pm
Do you think an outfit as successful as Silver Lake may just possibly have an idea of what the ability of the brand is to make money? They not doing it for fun.Hugo wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:02 pm I think this came up on an earlier thread on this subject and I said the same thing then but if there is not enough money in NZ rugby for it to be massively profitable then I don't see how a private equity firm changes that.
Only way to make more money in sport is to either -
a) grow your fanbase, more merchandise sold, more eyeballs watching = more tickets sold, bigger TV contracts or
b) Fleece the existing fans by charging them more.
Regarding a I just don't think rugby has this massive capacity for international growth, as the article suggests. Its a niche sport that has confusing laws and is physically dangerous. Its always going to have limited accessibility and be hard to market to the masses.
As you rightly say the best way to do it is increase the fanbase which is where their expertise would be. Wouldn't mind betting we will have a PC game in a few years using the AB brand. I have been surprised with the number of places that sell AB gear in strange places around the world so with experts at this stuff I imagine there is a good case for the market to really expand. My son who lived in Italy always laughed when ABs played a test there and they always sold out, he reckoned 70% of Italians who went only went to see the All Backs do the haka, and then hopefully see them up close, never had any idea of game they were wtching. So guess someone with the knowhow has to help make money from that.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:49 pm
Dan54 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:42 pmDo you think an outfit as successful as Silver Lake may just possibly have an idea of what the ability of the brand is to make money? They not doing it for fun.Hugo wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:02 pm I think this came up on an earlier thread on this subject and I said the same thing then but if there is not enough money in NZ rugby for it to be massively profitable then I don't see how a private equity firm changes that.
Only way to make more money in sport is to either -
a) grow your fanbase, more merchandise sold, more eyeballs watching = more tickets sold, bigger TV contracts or
b) Fleece the existing fans by charging them more.
Regarding a I just don't think rugby has this massive capacity for international growth, as the article suggests. Its a niche sport that has confusing laws and is physically dangerous. Its always going to have limited accessibility and be hard to market to the masses.
As you rightly say the best way to do it is increase the fanbase which is where their expertise would be. Wouldn't mind betting we will have a PC game in a few years using the AB brand. And will stream their games or some such thing, someone (Silevr Lake)obviously thinks there is a lot of untapped potential out there or they wouldn't be buying into it.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:50 pm
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:51 pm
The Sharks led the way...I am quite proud of that....
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:40 pm
That's not how private equity works. The idea is that they provide financial capital and expertise to grow the business and allow them to sell out at an acceptable profit. Specifying that what they have to sell disappears after x years would reduce the initial capital injection by an order of magnitude.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:44 pm
I think this money should be shared equally between all hemispheres. It's only fair.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:55 pm
Like the welsh TV money ?Munch wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:44 pm I think this money should be shared equally between all hemispheres. It's only fair.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:02 pm
Private Equity generally looks to structure it towards flipping their equity it to another PE firm down the track.Certain Navigator wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:40 pmThat's not how private equity works. The idea is that they provide financial capital and expertise to grow the business and allow them to sell out at an acceptable profit. Specifying that what they have to sell disappears after x years would reduce the initial capital injection by an order of magnitude.
And usually create complex share classes and voting rights to encourage growth and control the entity despite being a minority
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:15 pm
Bang on, so the job of NZR is to not allow them to control the entity, so make sure they got right people on board. I agree with you it maybe seen as slightly risky, but is it riskier than standing still and carrying on until NZR is broke?Ymx wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:02 pmPrivate Equity generally looks to structure it towards flipping their equity it to another PE firm down the track.Certain Navigator wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:40 pmThat's not how private equity works. The idea is that they provide financial capital and expertise to grow the business and allow them to sell out at an acceptable profit. Specifying that what they have to sell disappears after x years would reduce the initial capital injection by an order of magnitude.Enzedder wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:27 pm
That's my thoughts too. Shares in the company should revert to NZR in say 25 years.
And usually create complex share classes and voting rights to encourage growth and control the entity despite being a minority
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:21 pm
I always found that strange too Glaston, being in a market in marseille and you could buy French soccer and All black jerseys. Think that is the whoile point the All Black brand transends more than just rugby, so needs someone coming into really see how much it can earn. Without a huge loan I doubt whether NZR can do it. I see the Japan/Asian and American market as 2 of the big potential earners.Glaston wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:04 pmThey should concentrate more on their marketing/merch in Europe.Hugo wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:02 pm I think this came up on an earlier thread on this subject and I said the same thing then but if there is not enough money in NZ rugby for it to be massively profitable then I don't see how a private equity firm changes that.
Only way to make more money in sport is to either -
a) grow your fanbase, more merchandise sold, more eyeballs watching = more tickets sold, bigger TV contracts or
b) Fleece the existing fans by charging them more.
Regarding a I just don't think rugby has this massive capacity for international growth, as the article suggests. Its a niche sport that has confusing laws and is physically dangerous. Its always going to have limited accessibility and be hard to market to the masses.
Its always bizarre to find an All Blacks shop in the occasional regional town in France.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:45 pm
But it might be different in this case, there are plenty of ways to set out share classes.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:25 am
From my detailed research I understand that 'Spiritual Guardianship' is explicitly stated as being non negotiable except that each player shall have 'Spiritual Guardian' printed under their name on the matchday jersey.
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:48 pm
Yeah, good point. It’s only US$335milBiffer wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:44 pmIt's New Zealand dollars, it's not that much.ASMO wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:15 pm 465 million is a lot of pieces of silver
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/exclus ... 1612325492
Re: All Blacks sold their soul?
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:08 am
All Blacks had a soul? pretty sure Hobbs sold it ages ago..