NPR

In no particular order

Elliot Daley
Ben Youngs
Owen Farrell
Billy Vunipola
Jamie George
Mark Wilson

Oh, and Eddie "anti rugby" Jones can fuck off with them

Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

It's the performance rather than the result that's at issue. The seeds for this loss were sown a while ago and we've not seen any corrective action to some fairly glaring deficiencies.Some players we've complained about long before today really shouldn't feature again.

For me that'd be messrs Farrell and Youngs. I also wouldn't mind dropping Vunipola for an extended period. He's not offering anything we couldn't get from younger, more well rounded back rowers at the moment and hasn;t for ages.

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:26 pm

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

It's the performance rather than the result that's at issue. The seeds for this loss were sown a while ago and we've not seen any corrective action to some fairly glaring deficiencies.Some players we've complained about long before today really shouldn't feature again.

For me that'd be messrs Farrell and Youngs. I also wouldn't mind dropping Vunipola for an extended period. He's not offering anything we couldn't get from younger, more well rounded back rowers at the moment and hasn;t for ages.

Farrell is more of a Centre but Youngs is appalling agreed.
The issue was the lack of balls in the forwards tbh, you were bullied.
Your coach disrespected the Scots and experimented, he was more at fault than the players.

I thought Elliot Daly was good, kicked very well.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:35 pm I thought Elliot Daly was good, kicked very well.

Ha ha ha!

I like neeps wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:35 pm I thought Elliot Daly was good, kicked very well.

A fullback who missed pretty much every tackle he attempted. Hmmmmm

And missed the most important one of all.

Watson should probably be England's fullback, and Simmonds No8, Slade and May the only survivors as well as Watson from today's starting backline, but please, don't listen to me.

Watson has almost always been shite for England at 15, and to be honest he's not regularly produced much since the previous Lions tour (lack of form and injury). Malins has earned the chance.

There are several extremely talented and high-impact players regularly playing 8 who are better than 2020/21's Billy Vunipola.

Slade I like, but he missed four tackles today. I appreciate that he'd rather the opposition didn't have 75% of the ball, and the ball he got himself came from Owen fucking Stone-hands Farrell, so I'll let him off.

Farrell playing 80 while putting in one of the worst captain's performances I can remember is a proper shocker. Eddie's too arrogant and blinkered to make that sort of call. He's fine when he's ending the careers of fringe squad members for one bad game or a couple of mistakes (hello Alex Lozowski), or binning off guys coming to the end of their careers, but when his "bankers" aren't performing he'll move heaven and earth to protect them. It's pretty cowardly.

Just on a quick look up, Watson has started at 15 three times since 2018, he's been on the losing side twice, with England beating Italy the year after.

I like him, I thought he was one of the dangerous-looking runners England had today, but I haven't seen the Prem this season - I've got a stack load of recorded games which I'll never actually watch now.

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:08 pm Watson has almost always been shite for England at 15, and to be honest he's not regularly produced much since the previous Lions tour (lack of form and injury). Malins has earned the chance.

There are several extremely talented and high-impact players regularly playing 8 who are better than 2020/21's Billy Vunipola.

Slade I like, but he missed four tackles today. I appreciate that he'd rather the opposition didn't have 75% of the ball, and the ball he got himself came from Owen fucking Stone-hands Farrell, so I'll let him off.

Farrell playing 80 while putting in one of the worst captain's performances I can remember is a proper shocker. Eddie's too arrogant and blinkered to make that sort of call. He's fine when he's ending the careers of fringe squad members for one bad game or a couple of mistakes (hello Alex Lozowski), or binning off guys coming to the end of their careers, but when his "bankers" aren't performing he'll move heaven and earth to protect them. It's pretty cowardly.

I think this is pretty much it. Jones is a bully and that’s why his magic wears off, eventually everyone sees him for what he is.

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:26 pm

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

It's the performance rather than the result that's at issue. The seeds for this loss were sown a while ago and we've not seen any corrective action to some fairly glaring deficiencies.Some players we've complained about long before today really shouldn't feature again.

For me that'd be messrs Farrell and Youngs. I also wouldn't mind dropping Vunipola for an extended period. He's not offering anything we couldn't get from younger, more well rounded back rowers at the moment and hasn;t for ages.

I certainly agree re Billy V he is certainly not the force he was.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:19 pm Just on a quick look up, Watson has started at 15 three times since 2018, he's been on the losing side twice, with England beating Italy the year after.

I like him, I thought he was one of the dangerous-looking runners England had today, but I haven't seen the Prem this season - I've got a stack load of recorded games which I'll never actually watch now.

Watson falls over too often his reputation considerably outweighs his performance. The most useful thing he did for the Lions in NZ was stick his head on SBW’s shoulder.

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

what will u say when Ireland beats u guys tomorrow?

The thing that crosses my mind this morning is how essentially Scotland beat us at our own game.
We got kicked out of position, strangled of ball and came up against a brick wall on the rare occasions we did attack. We made no impact at the line out and got beaten in the scrum.
Our attack was dismal and Youngs and Faz between them contrived to throw away every opportunity, but I’m more concerned at how few there were. The Scottish back row was excellent and ours anonymous.
I’d love to stand here and blame the ref but Brace was excellent I thought, clear and consistent throughout. I prefer a cleaner breakdown but it was the same for both sides and Scotland used it much better. If there’s any criticism of him it’s that he didn’t bin more England players.

What next? Ford and Faz switch, Billy out, Wilson did nothing. We won’t drop Youngs and Robson was even worse.
Daly under a high ball is a serious liability that teams are now exploiting mercilessly.
May is allowed an off day IMHO.

In many ways yesterday resembled our semi vs NZ in reverse - Scotland turned up with a better gameplan, executed it better and the only surprise is that it was so close. To think that had Maro succeeded in having Price as a light supper in the first 20 minutes is the only bright spot

stemoc wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:24 am

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

what will u say when Ireland beats u guys tomorrow?

Ireland are going to beats us for sure

I think the shiteness of so many players yesterday is letting Jonny May away with very little criticism for an awful performance. Dropping the ball and knocking on from high kicks multiple times, sometimes under no pressure, and totally whiffed the tackle on van der Merwe for the try.

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:36 am I think the shiteness of so many players yesterday is letting Jonny May away with very little criticism for an awful performance. Dropping the ball and knocking on from high kicks multiple times, sometimes under no pressure, and totally whiffed the tackle on van der Merwe for the try.

He was awful but has some credit in the back. A genuine finisher will always be at best anonymous if he never gets the ball.
Memory could be failing me but I thought Daly was the turnstile for the try

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:40 am

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:36 am I think the shiteness of so many players yesterday is letting Jonny May away with very little criticism for an awful performance. Dropping the ball and knocking on from high kicks multiple times, sometimes under no pressure, and totally whiffed the tackle on van der Merwe for the try.

He was awful but has some credit in the back. A genuine finisher will always be at best anonymous if he never gets the ball.
Memory could be failing me but I thought Daly was the turnstile for the try

Oops.

You’re right, it was Daly.

May was still shite though.

stemoc wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:24 am

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

what will u say when Ireland beats u guys tomorrow?

"well that went as badly as I expected"

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:44 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:40 am

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:36 am I think the shiteness of so many players yesterday is letting Jonny May away with very little criticism for an awful performance. Dropping the ball and knocking on from high kicks multiple times, sometimes under no pressure, and totally whiffed the tackle on van der Merwe for the try.

He was awful but has some credit in the back. A genuine finisher will always be at best anonymous if he never gets the ball.
Memory could be failing me but I thought Daly was the turnstile for the try

Oops.

You’re right, it was Daly.

May was still shite though.

He got bounced about 5m back by Fagerson in the build up to the try on the other side

Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

My England backline would be

Randall
Ford
Faz
Slade
Joseph
May
Watson

However

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

Itoje looked like an immensely talented player who hasn't played for three months. Difficult to play right on the edge without game time behind you.

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:46 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

Itoje looked like an immensely talented player who hasn't played for three months. Difficult to play right on the edge without game time behind you.

Not denying any of that, and stats may prove me wrong, but even at his best he seems to give away a lot of penalties

C69 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:38 am My England backline would be

Randall
Ford
Faz
Slade
Joseph
May
Watson

However

3 centres and 1 winger

C69 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:22 am

stemoc wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:24 am

C69 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm Oh come off it you lost a close game, you do not have a God given right to win every game.

what will u say when Ireland beats u guys tomorrow?

"well that went as badly as I expected"

Yeah I don’t get this. Welshers never arrogant in approach to a game.

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

It’s his whole game to make a nuisance of himself. He’s good at it. Disrupts so many rucks with borderline tactics. Possibly McCaw like annoying (not that I could ever see it myself). Just got himself in the spotlight too much this time.

Itoje was the only England player who kept them close in the score. Youngs and Farrel were kak. England just never got started. Referee Brace was very good.

Although a Scot I watch as much Prem rugby as I can on BT and I can honestly say I couldn't believe the English selection for this game. I was however delighted, especially with Farrell at 10, which was more a defensive option to counter the threat of Russell than anything else. The Sarries guys were seriously undercooked, Big Billy has put the beef on during his rest period, Jamie George was just a fat hooker who was never unto the pace of the game, and your backs were certainly not the form guys I have watched recently in games. There are some seriously good players playing week in week out who are currently far better than the team Eddie picked but don't get near the English team/squad - Simmons or Smith are far better 10s at the moment. Needs a serious rethink for the next game but knowing Eddie he will set out to prove everyone wrong, pick the same team and they will beat Italy easily and thus prolonging the agony into the next match. I am not complaining!

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

Frequently. It's not the first, nor will it be the last, time that he gets it wrong and hemmorages penalties.

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

You price in penalties with him, him getting at Price early was the closest we came to winning.

More concerned about the constant drip of penalties from everyone first half.

Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:52 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

It’s his whole game to make a nuisance of himself. He’s good at it. Disrupts so many rucks with borderline tactics. Possibly McCaw like annoying (not that I could ever see it myself). Just got himself in the spotlight too much this time.

That bloody cloak again!!
Itoje was by far the best English player on the pitch yesterday. Though even that doesn't say much given the overall performance of all the others

SaintK wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:50 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:52 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Not suggesting for a moment he should be dropped of course, but does Itojes penalty counts worry any England supporters? He seems to give away an awful lot

It’s his whole game to make a nuisance of himself. He’s good at it. Disrupts so many rucks with borderline tactics. Possibly McCaw like annoying (not that I could ever see it myself). Just got himself in the spotlight too much this time.

That bloody cloak again!!
Itoje was by far the best English player on the pitch yesterday. Though even that doesn't say much given the overall performance of all the others

Itoje was the only English player to smash Scotland attackers back consistently. He's a world class player who gets too much grief from Scotland fans I think.

Billy Vunipola was really very poor. He was by the far the worst performer for England. He wasn't even close to match fitness.

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:57 am

SaintK wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:50 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:52 am

It’s his whole game to make a nuisance of himself. He’s good at it. Disrupts so many rucks with borderline tactics. Possibly McCaw like annoying (not that I could ever see it myself). Just got himself in the spotlight too much this time.

That bloody cloak again!!
Itoje was by far the best English player on the pitch yesterday. Though even that doesn't say much given the overall performance of all the others

Itoje was the only English player to smash Scotland attackers back consistently. He's a world class player who gets too much grief from Scotland fans I think.

Billy Vunipola was really very poor. He was by the far the worst performer for England. He wasn't even close to match fitness.

The patting people on the head and clapping in their faces a few years ago got him a label he will find hard to shake.

Itoje looks like the only Sarries player up to scratch.

Sadly Billy V looks chubby and uninterested these days, hoping George is just in a gully of form.

Faz should be an option at 12 or not at all.

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:58 am

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:57 am

SaintK wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:50 am
That bloody cloak again!!
Itoje was by far the best English player on the pitch yesterday. Though even that doesn't say much given the overall performance of all the others

Itoje was the only English player to smash Scotland attackers back consistently. He's a world class player who gets too much grief from Scotland fans I think.

Billy Vunipola was really very poor. He was by the far the worst performer for England. He wasn't even close to match fitness.

The patting people on the head and clapping in their faces a few years ago got him a label he will find hard to shake.

Fair but it's not like Glasgow and Scotland players didn't do that too. Itoje just did it more often as Sarries and England won more. You can't head tap and lose. Happily, it's out of the game now.

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:57 am

SaintK wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:50 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:52 am

It’s his whole game to make a nuisance of himself. He’s good at it. Disrupts so many rucks with borderline tactics. Possibly McCaw like annoying (not that I could ever see it myself). Just got himself in the spotlight too much this time.

That bloody cloak again!!
Itoje was by far the best English player on the pitch yesterday. Though even that doesn't say much given the overall performance of all the others

Itoje was the only English player to smash Scotland attackers back consistently. He's a world class player who gets too much grief from Scotland fans I think.

Billy Vunipola was really very poor. He was by the far the worst performer for England. He wasn't even close to match fitness.

Hold up, I wasn’t giving him grief, I was asking a question about the penalties he gives away. Easily England’s best player yesterday and imo the one true world class player they have. Although Curry and that other little troll back row whose name I can’t remember are pretty close

As things stand, there will be more Scots players touring with the Lions than English ones. The only nailed on tourist is Itoje, Underhill and Curry should go as well as Cowan Dickie who is streets ahead of George, the rest...meh.