Basically he's arguing that it's not a jump to score but to avoid the tackle which, of course is illegal. He may be right under the laws but
a) The game is boring enough already without ruling out moments of genius like this.
b) Where does it end? Rugby equivalent of Olympic walking i.e. one foot on the ground at all times. Appreciate most front rows already operate like this for 80 mins but
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 pm
by Ymx
He’s on the warpath
Owen Farrell is a disgrace to rugby - Owens
” huge respect for Owen Farrell both as a player and a person”, that “there was too much chat from him to the referee. That must stop,” wrote Owens. in his column for the Mail Online
Tackle started when May was still grounded, so can't be claimed to have jumped into the tackle.
There's no law about jumping into a tackle anyway, there's a law about being reckless and dangerous to others, and given the timing, I don't see how May did that.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:54 pm
by tc27
Pleased he wont ref England again TBH
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:55 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 pm
He’s on the warpath
Owen Farrell is a disgrace to rugby - Owens
” huge respect for Owen Farrell both as a player and a person”, that “there was too much chat from him to the referee. That must stop,” wrote Owens. in his column for the Mail Online
Expect to hear much more from Nige in retirement as he attempts to remain in the limelight.
tc27 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:54 pm
Pleased he wont ref England again TBH
Worst was when he was a touch judge.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:57 pm
by sockwithaticket
Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 pm
He’s on the warpath
Owen Farrell is a disgrace to rugby - Owens
” huge respect for Owen Farrell both as a player and a person”, that “there was too much chat from him to the referee. That must stop,” wrote Owens. in his column for the Mail Online
Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 pm
He’s on the warpath
Owen Farrell is a disgrace to rugby - Owens
” huge respect for Owen Farrell both as a player and a person”, that “there was too much chat from him to the referee. That must stop,” wrote Owens. in his column for the Mail Online
Ymx wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 pm
He’s on the warpath
Owen Farrell is a disgrace to rugby - Owens
” huge respect for Owen Farrell both as a player and a person”, that “there was too much chat from him to the referee. That must stop,” wrote Owens. in his column for the Mail Online
Farrell is a chopsy prick, but he's no worse than , say, Biggar.
No, there are worse. But he’s the captain. Probably shouldn’t be carrying on like that.
Although, he just used him as an example of how things changing in not a good way. The headline I put might have been errr embellished as per standard.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:44 pm
by Hugo
I must admit my instinctive reaction when I saw it in real time was that it was an attempt to jump the tackle in which case it was illegal play.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:06 pm
by sorCrer
He jumped the tackle.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:22 pm
by Raggs
sorCrer wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:06 pm
He jumped the tackle.
There's no law against it.
The tackle also technically started whilst he was still on the ground.
So that his feet and legs, etc., wouldn't be in touch before the grounded the ball
They'd only be in touch if he'd been tackled wouldn't they?
So we're saying he took a dive for the line, which is absolutely allowed?
I’m quibbling about the “diving to score” thing really. Unless they’re being flash players don’t dive to score, they dive to avoid the tackle that would prevent them from scoring. Diving low under a defender seems fine, I’m not qualified to judge whether leaping over a defender is legal.
They'd only be in touch if he'd been tackled wouldn't they?
So we're saying he took a dive for the line, which is absolutely allowed?
I’m quibbling about the “diving to score” thing really. Unless they’re being flash players don’t dive to score, they dive to avoid the tackle that would prevent them from scoring. Diving low under a defender seems fine, I’m not qualified to judge whether leaping over a defender is legal.
Jumping is not illegal. Reckless and and dangerous play towards others is. May was still on the ground when the tackler initiated contact. I saw nothing to suggest that his actions were needlessly reckless or dangerous towards the defender (hell of a lot safer than just charging him straight on, such as Lowe on the French defender in one of the big clashes today).
So we're saying he took a dive for the line, which is absolutely allowed?
I’m quibbling about the “diving to score” thing really. Unless they’re being flash players don’t dive to score, they dive to avoid the tackle that would prevent them from scoring. Diving low under a defender seems fine, I’m not qualified to judge whether leaping over a defender is legal.
Jumping is not illegal. Reckless and and dangerous play towards others is. May was still on the ground when the tackler initiated contact. I saw nothing to suggest that his actions were needlessly reckless or dangerous towards the defender (hell of a lot safer than just charging him straight on, such as Lowe on the French defender in one of the big clashes today).
If that’s the law then so be it although it begs the question why isn’t there more jumping over tackles if it’s legit.
I’m quibbling about the “diving to score” thing really. Unless they’re being flash players don’t dive to score, they dive to avoid the tackle that would prevent them from scoring. Diving low under a defender seems fine, I’m not qualified to judge whether leaping over a defender is legal.
Jumping is not illegal. Reckless and and dangerous play towards others is. May was still on the ground when the tackler initiated contact. I saw nothing to suggest that his actions were needlessly reckless or dangerous towards the defender (hell of a lot safer than just charging him straight on, such as Lowe on the French defender in one of the big clashes today).
If that’s the law then so be it although it begs the question why isn’t there more jumping over tackles if it’s legit.
You're not allowed to be reckless or dangerous, and that's where you get the difference between a dive and a jump for me, a jump is going to leave legs leading, and shins and knees flying into heads, ready to land back on your feet, and clearly very dangerous, a dive has the aim of landing on your body/hands etc, which is what May was doing, albeit in acrobatic manner.
Jumping is not illegal. Reckless and and dangerous play towards others is. May was still on the ground when the tackler initiated contact. I saw nothing to suggest that his actions were needlessly reckless or dangerous towards the defender (hell of a lot safer than just charging him straight on, such as Lowe on the French defender in one of the big clashes today).
If that’s the law then so be it although it begs the question why isn’t there more jumping over tackles if it’s legit.
You're not allowed to be reckless or dangerous, and that's where you get the difference between a dive and a jump for me, a jump is going to leave legs leading, and shins and knees flying into heads, ready to land back on your feet, and clearly very dangerous, a dive has the aim of landing on your body/hands etc, which is what May was doing, albeit in acrobatic manner.
Jumping is not illegal. Reckless and and dangerous play towards others is. May was still on the ground when the tackler initiated contact. I saw nothing to suggest that his actions were needlessly reckless or dangerous towards the defender (hell of a lot safer than just charging him straight on, such as Lowe on the French defender in one of the big clashes today).
If that’s the law then so be it although it begs the question why isn’t there more jumping over tackles if it’s legit.
You're not allowed to be reckless or dangerous, and that's where you get the difference between a dive and a jump for me, a jump is going to leave legs leading, and shins and knees flying into heads, ready to land back on your feet, and clearly very dangerous, a dive has the aim of landing on your body/hands etc, which is what May was doing, albeit in acrobatic manner.
Basically he's arguing that it's not a jump to score but to avoid the tackle which, of course is illegal.
Why would JM leap in that situation other than to avoid the tackle?
I admit my first thought was jumping the tackle.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:47 am
by Niegs
With all the things Union has copied from League, you have to draw the line at nicking this sort of thing too! More pick and go tries, please!
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:18 am
by Enzedder
[Insert Welsh Accent]
You cannot dive here sonny. This is not soccer.
[/end Welsh accent]
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:37 am
by sorCrer
You dive down and jump up. He jumped.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:15 am
by Raggs
sorCrer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:37 am
You dive down and jump up. He jumped.
Ok. Now where's there law that says he can't?
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:42 am
by Insane_Homer
I agree with him, he was jumping to avoiding the tackle.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:55 am
by Insane_Homer
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:15 am
Ok. Now where's there law that says he can't?
DANGEROUS PLAY
Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.
Re: Owens would have disallowed May's acrobat try
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:20 am
by GogLais
Niegs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:47 am
With all the things Union has copied from League, you have to draw the line at nicking this sort of thing too! More pick and go tries, please!
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:15 am
Ok. Now where's there law that says he can't?
DANGEROUS PLAY
Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.
Right. So it doesn't say you can't jump.
The tackle started whilst May was still on the ground. The tackler was not in danger. Especially compared to a different scenario of a winger simply running full pelt into the defender (check out the Lowe carry in the France game where he smashes the defender).
They'd only be in touch if he'd been tackled wouldn't they?
So we're saying he took a dive for the line, which is absolutely allowed?
I’m quibbling about the “diving to score” thing really. Unless they’re being flash players don’t dive to score, they dive to avoid the tackle that would prevent them from scoring. Diving low under a defender seems fine, I’m not qualified to judge whether leaping over a defender is legal.
We've seen plenty of spectacular "high dives" to score, almost all of which were intended to get players *over* a tackle.
It just looked weird and ungainly in this case, because May is weird and ungainly.
Yes? That's a picture with 2 players, neither of whom are in contact at that point?
You'll be pointing out how that recklessly endangers the tackler to a greater degree than simply playing rugby in a minute I presume?
Wait what? I thought you said the tackle started before he jumped? Make up your mind.
I did, and if you watch, the first contact comes whilst May is still on the ground. I'll admit it's bloody close, but it's true, which rather stops the "He jumped into the tackle." The picture you showed isn't the start is it...
And again, it's irrelevant. The only relevance, as you eventually reached, is he cannot recklessly endanger others. At which point in the passage of play has May recklessly endangered the tackler? The baseline we need to work off is of course the fact that every collision is dangerous, so we need to prove a greater level of danger.
A normal tackle would have 2 90kg+ guys running at high speed into each other, the example above has a tackler laying a single hand on May and little more.
Raggs wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:15 am
Ok. Now where's there law that says he can't?
DANGEROUS PLAY
Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.
I haven’t seen one in a while to be fair, but the (almost?) always allowed two handed shove into touch has the potential to be more dangerous than this specific dive. That reckless and dangerous clause seems like it’s only used for more extreme cases not already mentioned in law and where the risk in the moment is much higher than this. If he tried to hurdle someone making a front tackle or explode upward while already wrapped, sure.
