NPR

Something other than covid to talk about

Hard to call if Jersey’s Government, the ultimate jumped up Parish Council, have fucked up or the French fishermen are being typically dramatic. Probably both.

Either way, if the UK Government had threatened to block vaccine supplies and then later in the year threatened to turn off the power to EU citizens we’d be hearing bloody murder about it.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:40 pm Hard to call if Jersey’s Government, the ultimate jumped up Parish Council, have fucked up or the French fishermen are being typically dramatic. Probably both.

Either way, if the UK Government had threatened to block vaccine supplies and then later in the year threatened to turn off the power to EU citizens we’d be hearing bloody murder about it.

The Fishermen are understandable pissed off at the UK Government breaking its word again, on deal they did allowing them to continue fishing in UK waters.

Just before the Lions are due to go there for their pre-tour beasting as well.

HMS Tamar gets to show off her new dazzle camouflage at least.

Jock42 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:05 pm HMS Tamar gets to show off her new dazzle camouflage at least.

Shame no one will be able to see it when the French turn off the lights

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:58 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:40 pm Hard to call if Jersey’s Government, the ultimate jumped up Parish Council, have fucked up or the French fishermen are being typically dramatic. Probably both.

Either way, if the UK Government had threatened to block vaccine supplies and then later in the year threatened to turn off the power to EU citizens we’d be hearing bloody murder about it.

The Fishermen are understandable pissed off at the UK Government breaking its word again, on deal they did allowing them to continue fishing in UK waters.

Well clearly you haven’t read much about this given it relates to the Jersey government who govern fishing in their own waters and have separate agreements with France

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:58 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:40 pm Hard to call if Jersey’s Government, the ultimate jumped up Parish Council, have fucked up or the French fishermen are being typically dramatic. Probably both.

Either way, if the UK Government had threatened to block vaccine supplies and then later in the year threatened to turn off the power to EU citizens we’d be hearing bloody murder about it.

The Fishermen are understandable pissed off at the UK Government breaking its word again, on deal they did allowing them to continue fishing in UK waters.

Its the French fisherman being caught out .

They have to provide proof that they have been fishing these areas, to then get a permit to fish within UK territorial waters
Lots have been fishing for years with radio ID off, so they avoid getting checked.
With no proof that they have been fishing in waters around Jersey they dont get licensed.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:24 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:58 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:40 pm Hard to call if Jersey’s Government, the ultimate jumped up Parish Council, have fucked up or the French fishermen are being typically dramatic. Probably both.

Either way, if the UK Government had threatened to block vaccine supplies and then later in the year threatened to turn off the power to EU citizens we’d be hearing bloody murder about it.

The Fishermen are understandable pissed off at the UK Government breaking its word again, on deal they did allowing them to continue fishing in UK waters.

Well clearly you haven’t read much about this given it relates to the Jersey government who govern fishing in their own waters and have separate agreements with France

Yeah but UKG, Brexit, Irish, European, etc. Get with it Paddington

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:24 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:58 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:40 pm Hard to call if Jersey’s Government, the ultimate jumped up Parish Council, have fucked up or the French fishermen are being typically dramatic. Probably both.

Either way, if the UK Government had threatened to block vaccine supplies and then later in the year threatened to turn off the power to EU citizens we’d be hearing bloody murder about it.

The Fishermen are understandable pissed off at the UK Government breaking its word again, on deal they did allowing them to continue fishing in UK waters.

Well clearly you haven’t read much about this given it relates to the Jersey government who govern fishing in their own waters and have separate agreements with France

Is that why the Jersey Government is asking London for permission to talk to the fishermen themselves ?

Jersey’s External Relations Minister, Ian Gorst
...
“The trade deal is clear but I think there has been some confusion about how it needs to be implemented, because we absolutely respect the historic rights of French fishermen to fish in Jersey waters as they have been doing for centuries,” he said.

“I do think a solution can be found. I am optimistic that we can provide extra time to allow this evidence to be provided.”

He said the Jersey government was now seeking permission from London and Brussels to speak directly with the French fishermen concerned to resolve the issue.

It sounds to me like the Government in Jersey wants to stop this shit; but the problem is in the serial treaty breakers in London ?

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:42 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:24 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:58 pm

The Fishermen are understandable pissed off at the UK Government breaking its word again, on deal they did allowing them to continue fishing in UK waters.

Well clearly you haven’t read much about this given it relates to the Jersey government who govern fishing in their own waters and have separate agreements with France

Is that why the Jersey Government is asking London for permission to talk to the fishermen themselves ?

Jersey’s External Relations Minister, Ian Gorst
...
“The trade deal is clear but I think there has been some confusion about how it needs to be implemented, because we absolutely respect the historic rights of French fishermen to fish in Jersey waters as they have been doing for centuries,” he said.

“I do think a solution can be found. I am optimistic that we can provide extra time to allow this evidence to be provided.”

He said the Jersey government was now seeking permission from London and Brussels to speak directly with the French fishermen concerned to resolve the issue.

It sounds to me like the Government in Jersey wants to stop this shit; but the problem is in the serial treaty breakers in London ?

Its got feck all to do with London you twat.
Stop making up shit

Simple as.

French boats fish in Jersey waters
The deal was, they could continue to fish in Jersey waters via a License but had to provide proof that they had previously done so.
40 odd boats have a license.
Lots of French fisherman have been cheating quota's and stuff by not having tracking on their boats and now CANNOT show where they fished.
Karma

BTW these licenses are free


"However, Don Thompson, president of the Jersey Fisherman’s Association, said Jersey had been ‘quite generous’ in its licensing scheme and described France’s response as an ‘over-reaction’.

He said: ‘The EU have signed up to the [post-Brexit] Trade and Co-operation Agreement which states that Jersey must recognise the extent of previous fishing in our waters. The restrictions on the new licences cover what the French were already doing in our waters and are only preventing them from expanding their fishing efforts, which is needed if we are going to have sustainability in our waters.

‘A point that is being missed is that Jersey boats do not have licences to fish in French waters – we are restricted to our own territorial waters while they can use ours, if any restrictions are placed on their own.’

Mr Thompson also highlighted how the approved 41 French vessels had been given a licence for free and urged Jersey’s government not to give in to the French.

‘Our boats would be charged £250,000 if they were to have something similar. Our advice to ministers is that they should not capitulate to these intimidation and bullying tactics that are being used,’ he said.

‘If we do capitulate now then they are just going to do the same thing every time we try to apply some form of management to make our waters sustainable."

Jock42 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:05 pm HMS Tamar gets to show off her new dazzle camouflage at least.

Weird since I though all evidence had shown dazzle did nothing 100 years ago and doubt it would confuse a modern anti-ship missile or torpedo.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:55 am

Jock42 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:05 pm HMS Tamar gets to show off her new dazzle camouflage at least.

Weird since I though all evidence had shown dazzle did nothing 100 years ago and doubt it would confuse a modern anti-ship missile or torpedo.

Probably just as well it's a Fisheries Protection Ship then.

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:42 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:24 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:58 pm

The Fishermen are understandable pissed off at the UK Government breaking its word again, on deal they did allowing them to continue fishing in UK waters.

Well clearly you haven’t read much about this given it relates to the Jersey government who govern fishing in their own waters and have separate agreements with France

Is that why the Jersey Government is asking London for permission to talk to the fishermen themselves ?

Jersey’s External Relations Minister, Ian Gorst
...
“The trade deal is clear but I think there has been some confusion about how it needs to be implemented, because we absolutely respect the historic rights of French fishermen to fish in Jersey waters as they have been doing for centuries,” he said.

“I do think a solution can be found. I am optimistic that we can provide extra time to allow this evidence to be provided.”

He said the Jersey government was now seeking permission from London and Brussels to speak directly with the French fishermen concerned to resolve the issue.

It sounds to me like the Government in Jersey wants to stop this shit; but the problem is in the serial treaty breakers in London ?

Jersey's foreign affairs are handled through London unless they get explicit permission to handle it themselves. A lot of people in the industry in Jersey will know these protestors personally, so there's a good chance that being able to talk directly to them here will clear up any misunderstandings created either by the Jersey Government or through incompetence on the part of the fishermen. Not everything is Boris' fault.

Is there an election on?

I assume that the usual suspects will be standing, proudly erect, with the Union Jack tied to their flagpole.

Hal Jordan wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:20 am Is there an election on?

I assume that the usual suspects will be standing, proudly erect, with the Union Jack tied to their flagpole.

The French government decided to threaten to end electricity supplies to a Crown Dependency most people can't find on a map, whilst fishermen threatened to blockade it's port. All this in conjunction with the Tories for the purpose of winning a by-election in Hartlepool, this seat being crucial to a Government with a massive majority, days after most people had already voted via post.

Think we can safely edit the wikipedia article for Occam's Razor - this has absolutely smashed it out the park.

So if the French are going to war and setting up a blockade. Should we not use the tried and tested method of just sneaking round the side.

Breaking News*






*Yes I am aware the French surrender meme is not historically accurate.

Blackmac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 am So if the French are going to war and setting up a blockade. Should we not use the tried and tested method of just sneaking round the side.

Bit hard on such a small island pretty much isolated in French waters.

The local fishermen are going to be in trouble selling their stuff in the end (they land most of their catch in France AFAIK).
all in all Jersey has the most to lose here (electricity and a place to sell their fish).

If the boys in the navy want to play there is always Landivisiau not very far were they can find some play mates... (the game would be quite short for a patrol vessel).

I see the internet is pretending not to understand the difference between Fishery Protection Vessels and Warships.

laurent wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 am

Blackmac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 am So if the French are going to war and setting up a blockade. Should we not use the tried and tested method of just sneaking round the side.

Bit hard on such a small island pretty much isolated in French waters.

The local fishermen are going to be in trouble selling their stuff in the end (they land most of their catch in France AFAIK).
all in all Jersey has the most to lose here (electricity and a place to sell their fish).

If the boys in the navy want to play there is always Landivisiau not very far were they can find some play mates... (the game would be quite short for a patrol vessel).

Agree with you Jersey needs good relations with France (it really is a bit of Normandy out in the sea) but carrying out diplomacy via threats and blockades (which I know is French fishermen not the French government) is not something that can be accepted.

its also very clear the patrol vessels are there to deter dangerous actions by private vessels not start a war.

tc27 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:47 am

laurent wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 am

Blackmac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 am So if the French are going to war and setting up a blockade. Should we not use the tried and tested method of just sneaking round the side.

Bit hard on such a small island pretty much isolated in French waters.

The local fishermen are going to be in trouble selling their stuff in the end (they land most of their catch in France AFAIK).
all in all Jersey has the most to lose here (electricity and a place to sell their fish).

If the boys in the navy want to play there is always Landivisiau not very far were they can find some play mates... (the game would be quite short for a patrol vessel).

Agree with you Jersey needs good relations with France (it really is a bit of Normandy out in the sea) but carrying out diplomacy via threats and blockades (which I know is French fishermen not the French government) is not something that can be accepted.

its also very clear the patrol vessels are there to deter dangerous actions by private vessels not start a war.

There's a 99% chance this is a misunderstanding - the Norman fishermen need to fish those waters and Jersey fishermen need to land catches in Granville. As I mentioned earlier most of the people involved know each other personally. Hence why threatening to turn the lights off is taking it from 0-100 in 60 seconds.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:51 am

tc27 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:47 am

laurent wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 am

Bit hard on such a small island pretty much isolated in French waters.

The local fishermen are going to be in trouble selling their stuff in the end (they land most of their catch in France AFAIK).
all in all Jersey has the most to lose here (electricity and a place to sell their fish).

If the boys in the navy want to play there is always Landivisiau not very far were they can find some play mates... (the game would be quite short for a patrol vessel).

Agree with you Jersey needs good relations with France (it really is a bit of Normandy out in the sea) but carrying out diplomacy via threats and blockades (which I know is French fishermen not the French government) is not something that can be accepted.

its also very clear the patrol vessels are there to deter dangerous actions by private vessels not start a war.

There's a 99% chance this is a misunderstanding - the Norman fishermen need to fish those waters and Jersey fishermen need to land catches in Granville. As I mentioned earlier most of the people involved know each other personally. Hence why threatening to turn the lights off is taking it from 0-100 in 60 seconds.

Turning it up to 11 :)

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:51 am

tc27 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:47 am

laurent wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 am

Bit hard on such a small island pretty much isolated in French waters.

The local fishermen are going to be in trouble selling their stuff in the end (they land most of their catch in France AFAIK).
all in all Jersey has the most to lose here (electricity and a place to sell their fish).

If the boys in the navy want to play there is always Landivisiau not very far were they can find some play mates... (the game would be quite short for a patrol vessel).

Agree with you Jersey needs good relations with France (it really is a bit of Normandy out in the sea) but carrying out diplomacy via threats and blockades (which I know is French fishermen not the French government) is not something that can be accepted.

its also very clear the patrol vessels are there to deter dangerous actions by private vessels not start a war.

There's a 99% chance this is a misunderstanding - the Norman fishermen need to fish those waters and Jersey fishermen need to land catches in Granville. As I mentioned earlier most of the people involved know each other personally. Hence why threatening to turn the lights off is taking it from 0-100 in 60 seconds.

So why are they demand years of evidence for them having fished in UK waters; when they know damn well they were ?

The Jersey Government want to sort it; the French want to sort it; we all know where the blockage is; the shits in Westminster.

laurent wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 am

Blackmac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 am So if the French are going to war and setting up a blockade. Should we not use the tried and tested method of just sneaking round the side.

Bit hard on such a small island pretty much isolated in French waters.

The local fishermen are going to be in trouble selling their stuff in the end (they land most of their catch in France AFAIK).
all in all Jersey has the most to lose here (electricity and a place to sell their fish).

If the boys in the navy want to play there is always Landivisiau not very far were they can find some play mates... (the game would be quite short for a patrol vessel).

My comment really did not justify a serious response.

Personally don't have the energy to invest in acquiring sufficient knowledge of the agreements/regulations/legislation in place to develop a valid opinion on this.

Hoping the good guys prevail though.

I expect plenty of gammons won't be happy unless we sink at least a couple of trawlers. Meanwhile no problems for Guernsey where all remains cordial.

fishfoodie wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:13 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:51 am

tc27 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:47 am

Agree with you Jersey needs good relations with France (it really is a bit of Normandy out in the sea) but carrying out diplomacy via threats and blockades (which I know is French fishermen not the French government) is not something that can be accepted.

its also very clear the patrol vessels are there to deter dangerous actions by private vessels not start a war.

There's a 99% chance this is a misunderstanding - the Norman fishermen need to fish those waters and Jersey fishermen need to land catches in Granville. As I mentioned earlier most of the people involved know each other personally. Hence why threatening to turn the lights off is taking it from 0-100 in 60 seconds.

So why are they demand years of evidence for them having fished in UK waters; when they know damn well they were ?

The Jersey Government want to sort it; the French want to sort it; we all know where the blockage is; the shits in Westminster.

Seriously, stop being silly. Not everything is Boris' fault because you don't like him.
1) This isn't UK waters, it's Jersey waters. Regulated from St Helier by Jersey's government. This is crucial and you haven't grasped it.
2) Brexit is tangentially involved in this, sure. Brexit meant the end of the 20 year old agreement between Jersey and France on fishing access, to be replaced by a permit system operated again from St Helier.
3) This permit system came into operation this month. There seems to be some confusion as some French vessels who expected to be able to continue their previous access aren't able to. It isn't clear whether they've cocked up, Jersey's Government have cocked up, or some combination of the two.
4) The UK government has not been involved in setting up the permits as these aren't UK waters and the UK cannot legislate for the Channel Islands in areas like this without their consent.
5) As a result of the mix up/stitch up delete as appropriate, the French have dialled it straight up to 11.

Nothing the blonde slug would love more than to follow in Maggy's footsteps and start a war with someone over a small insignificant island

tabascoboy wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:45 am I expect plenty of gammons won't be happy unless we sink at least a couple of trawlers. Meanwhile no problems for Guernsey where all remains cordial.

Guernsey is further away from France which I assume is why it's less controversial. British islets that are part of Jersey like Les Ecrehous and Les Minquiers are very, very close to France.

RN and MN OPV's just babysitting some angry French fishing vessels which aren't actually obstructing access.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:53 am

tabascoboy wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:45 am I expect plenty of gammons won't be happy unless we sink at least a couple of trawlers. Meanwhile no problems for Guernsey where all remains cordial.

Guernsey is further away from France which I assume is why it's less controversial. British islets that are part of Jersey like Les Ecrehous and Les Minquiers are very, very close to France.

I have little interest in this but I did read the bbc article and apparently Guernsey have delayed the introduction of the fishing licences till end of May. I get the impression that the bbc is pretty much blaming the Jersey government who have allegedly added extra demands for receiving said licence which wasn't agreed to in the prior agreement with the EU. I'm guessing Guernsey will be a bit more careful when they start to issue the fishing licences.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:46 am I see the internet is pretending not to understand the difference between Fishery Protection Vessels and Warships.

No, the internet doesn't care. They look like small warships to most people. Are they armed?

JM2K6 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:32 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:46 am I see the internet is pretending not to understand the difference between Fishery Protection Vessels and Warships.

No, the internet doesn't care. They look like small warships to most people. Are they armed?

Couple of gimpys and a 30mm I think.

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:33 am

JM2K6 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:32 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:46 am I see the internet is pretending not to understand the difference between Fishery Protection Vessels and Warships.

No, the internet doesn't care. They look like small warships to most people. Are they armed?

Couple of gimpys and a 30mm I think.

OK. So... "lightly" armed Royal Navy vessels. Huge shock the internet doesn't understand the difference.

Blackmac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:18 am

laurent wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 am

Blackmac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 am So if the French are going to war and setting up a blockade. Should we not use the tried and tested method of just sneaking round the side.

Bit hard on such a small island pretty much isolated in French waters.

The local fishermen are going to be in trouble selling their stuff in the end (they land most of their catch in France AFAIK).
all in all Jersey has the most to lose here (electricity and a place to sell their fish).

If the boys in the navy want to play there is always Landivisiau not very far were they can find some play mates... (the game would be quite short for a patrol vessel).

My comment really did not justify a serious response.

I was only about as serious as you were.
I am not sure the French navy would bother with a patrol boat, the Fishermen are likely to do an icelandic war on these by themselves

JM2K6 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 am

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:33 am

JM2K6 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:32 am

No, the internet doesn't care. They look like small warships to most people. Are they armed?

Couple of gimpys and a 30mm I think.

OK. So... "lightly" armed Royal Navy vessels. Huge shock the internet doesn't understand the difference.

People are pretending Boris is personally running gunships up the Seine rather than deploying vessels for the one of the specific purposes they were designed for. Most of these people know far better.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:38 am

JM2K6 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 am

Jock42 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:33 am
Couple of gimpys and a 30mm I think.

OK. So... "lightly" armed Royal Navy vessels. Huge shock the internet doesn't understand the difference.

People are pretending Boris is personally running gunships up the Seine rather than deploying vessels for the one of the specific purposes they were designed for. Most of these people know far better.

I think you're wildly overestimating how much people actually know about this stuff, or how big a difference between "Warship" and "armed RN vessel" there actually is!

Look at the headlines if you want an explanation.

Just seen the Tamar on the telly churning out smoke like a WWI battleship, must be in need of a re-bore.

GogLais wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:08 pm Just seen the Tamar on the telly churning out smoke like a WWI battleship, must be in need of a re-bore.

need a few of these ?