NPR

Christ on a bike.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears

The fire risk assessor not quite as qualified as his suffixes suggested.

If anyone’s been keeping an eye on this, you’ll see that there are very few coming out smelling of roses, from manufacturers through to councillors.

Random1 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 8:07 pm Christ on a bike.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears

The fire risk assessor not quite as qualified as his suffixes suggested.

If anyone’s been keeping an eye on this, you’ll see that there are very few coming out smelling of roses, from manufacturers through to councillors.

Shambles, dreadful for the people now trapped in worthless and dangerous accommodation. When it first broke I thought the building industry and its insurers should sort it out but it's now such a big complex problem that I think the Government has to resolve it. My confidence in its will or ability to do is .... limited.it

GogLais wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 9:34 pm

Random1 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 8:07 pm Christ on a bike.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears

The fire risk assessor not quite as qualified as his suffixes suggested.

If anyone’s been keeping an eye on this, you’ll see that there are very few coming out smelling of roses, from manufacturers through to councillors.

Shambles, dreadful for the people now trapped in worthless and dangerous accommodation. When it first broke I thought the building industry and its insurers should sort it out but it's now such a big complex problem that I think the Government has to resolve it. My confidence in its will or ability to do is .... limited.it

This gobshite is just getting lined up as a scapegoat; to protect the Politicians, & the commercial interests that setup this disaster.

The Companies, & Insurers know damn well that they can ride this out; because the Politicians were the ones who set the Industry standards, & didn't check credentials of their inspectors; right down to the councilors who made sure to clad the building in the lowest possible cost solution.

Disasters like this always follow the same pattern; there's never any single failing; it's always a series of them, across human, technical, systems, & behavioral. Just look at the 737-MAX for a classic example of how it happens.

fishfoodie wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:13 pm

GogLais wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 9:34 pm

Random1 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 8:07 pm Christ on a bike.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears

The fire risk assessor not quite as qualified as his suffixes suggested.

If anyone’s been keeping an eye on this, you’ll see that there are very few coming out smelling of roses, from manufacturers through to councillors.

Shambles, dreadful for the people now trapped in worthless and dangerous accommodation. When it first broke I thought the building industry and its insurers should sort it out but it's now such a big complex problem that I think the Government has to resolve it. My confidence in its will or ability to do is .... limited.it

This gobshite is just getting lined up as a scapegoat; to protect the Politicians, & the commercial interests that setup this disaster.

The Companies, & Insurers know damn well that they can ride this out; because the Politicians were the ones who set the Industry standards, & didn't check credentials of their inspectors; right down to the councilors who made sure to clad the building in the lowest possible cost solution.

Disasters like this always follow the same pattern; there's never any single failing; it's always a series of them, across human, technical, systems, & behavioral. Just look at the 737-MAX for a classic example of how it happens.

This nothing like what Boeing did.

I am closer to this than many, one of my staff lived in one of the top flats with his family, called me while it was happening to tell me him and his wife and kids were trapped near the top, only just made it out with them all alive but wife lost the baby she was carrying. Have had to give evidence to the enquiry about the impact it has had on him etc, very harrowing, he is still suffering PTSD to this day. The tabloids were chasing him for the story just a few days after, we had to use our own internal press team to shield him from all of the shit he was getting, press are cunts to say the least, even had them doorstep him in the tem accomodation he was given afterwards.

Remember you posting about this before ASMO. Glad they survived but what an appalling situation they are in now.

fishfoodie wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:13 pm

This gobshite is just getting lined up as a scapegoat; to protect the Politicians, & the commercial interests that setup this disaster.

I think it depends on whether his reporting was incompetent in a way that could be at least partly to blame for the disaster. From that article alone it is not clear at all, and if he becomes an escapegoat based on this then it won't wash with a single person I reckon.

So the wealthy residents in Chelsea insisted that a tower block be covered in pretty, but flammable cheap shit, because "house prices"..and the Tory run council, that loved refunding wealthy peoples council tax, because hey, "fuck the poor and their services" etc..agreed.
This resulted in lot of deaths.
Everyone quick..run away.

notfatcat wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:19 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:13 pm

This gobshite is just getting lined up as a scapegoat; to protect the Politicians, & the commercial interests that setup this disaster.

I think it depends on whether his reporting was incompetent in a way that could be at least partly to blame for the disaster. From that article alone it is not clear at all, and if he becomes an escapegoat based on this then it won't wash with a single person I reckon.

He was checking fire exits, & lighting etc; all internal stuff that has to be done on a regular basis.

He wasn't doing testing on the external cladding !

So it's very unlikely he'll be a scapegoat.

fishfoodie wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:13 pm

GogLais wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 9:34 pm

Random1 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 8:07 pm Christ on a bike.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears

The fire risk assessor not quite as qualified as his suffixes suggested.

If anyone’s been keeping an eye on this, you’ll see that there are very few coming out smelling of roses, from manufacturers through to councillors.

Shambles, dreadful for the people now trapped in worthless and dangerous accommodation. When it first broke I thought the building industry and its insurers should sort it out but it's now such a big complex problem that I think the Government has to resolve it. My confidence in its will or ability to do is .... limited.it

This gobshite is just getting lined up as a scapegoat; to protect the Politicians, & the commercial interests that setup this disaster.

The Companies, & Insurers know damn well that they can ride this out; because the Politicians were the ones who set the Industry standards, & didn't check credentials of their inspectors; right down to the councilors who made sure to clad the building in the lowest possible cost solution.

Disasters like this always follow the same pattern; there's never any single failing; it's always a series of them, across human, technical, systems, & behavioral. Just look at the 737-MAX for a classic example of how it happens.

This does somewhat overlook the notion that a lot of the actual problems come from a spend of money not not spending the money.

The absence of inspectors is spot on a cause for concern and that's certainly an issue coming from not spending money, but a lot of the problems with buildings right now is connected much more to internal works done to insulate properties (either with a view to fuel bills and/or the environment) and it having been done in a way which we now know to have caused a substantial ongoing risk. And the internal works are likely a much bigger and more expensive error to correct than the cladding side of things, and a lot of that work didn't have to have happened, in essence a lot of spend which didn't have to have happened is what's caused much of the problem, so to label it simply as not spending as being the problem misses a huge chunk of the total balls up this is

Also firmly in the failure to spend money problems is the lack of government assistance to correct the problems partly caused by the government, and most certainly on the government's watch. Leaving this to insurance firms and property developers is as stupid an idea as it looks.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:04 pm So the wealthy residents in Chelsea insisted that a tower block be covered in pretty, but flammable cheap shit, because "house prices"..and the Tory run council, that loved refunding wealthy peoples council tax, because hey, "fuck the poor and their services" etc..agreed.
This resulted in lot of deaths.
Everyone quick..run away.

Easy to say when I haven’t got a business to run but really the professionals involved have to say no if they’re not satisfied about the safety of something. “The client made me do it” is unlikely to stand up in court.

GogLais wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 3:34 pm

Line6 HXFX wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:04 pm So the wealthy residents in Chelsea insisted that a tower block be covered in pretty, but flammable cheap shit, because "house prices"..and the Tory run council, that loved refunding wealthy peoples council tax, because hey, "fuck the poor and their services" etc..agreed.
This resulted in lot of deaths.
Everyone quick..run away.

Easy to say when I haven’t got a business to run but really the professionals involved have to say no if they’re not satisfied about the safety of something. “The client made me do it” is unlikely to stand up in court.

All the professionals have to go on is the standards the insulation is certified to; & that's down to the Government & the Manufacturer.

There's a job; they submit a tender with a price with components that meet the clients requirements, & are legal for the job; that's it !

If the certification is faulty; that's either the Manufacturer, or the Government.

If the selection, or the installation is wrong; that's them.

From everything I've seen; this insulation should never have been certified; although I think I saw something about it only being certified for structures below height x, or something; so that might put them in harms way.