NPR

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am**

The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?
IOL

In a jaw-dropping irony, the Ukraine and Russian rugby teams were sharing a training facility in Turkey when the war broke out and Muir, speaking from Antalya in Turkey, said the players got on just fine.

War on the field, friends off the field. The rugby sportsmanship fuck over by politics.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:34 am**

Now where have I heard that old "politics and sports shouldn't mix" line before?

Oh, yeah...

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:53 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?

Agreed. Punishing civilians for the actions of their government is illiberal and wrong because it doesn't actually affect or hold accountable the people that were responsible but hurts those that weren't.

Should England have been unable to compete for the 2003 RWC because of the invasion of Iraq on a false pretext that same year? For the England team of 2003 that victory was the culmination of years of toil and hard work on the rugby pitch and training paddock and you are going to dash those dreams over a faulty political decision?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:53 am**

Who is that?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:58 am**

I think the idea is to piss off the Russian public. If their countrymen aren't allowed to compete, the public can't tune in or travel to watch & support.

For major sports, this will have economic interests as well (e.g. sponsorship of Russian clubs, Russia not able to host events etc). For minor sports, obviously the impact is much smaller - how many people would be pissed off by not being able to support the archery team, for example?

If we want to treat Russia as a pariah state (which we absolutely should at this time, in my opinion), we have to use all the tools available.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:31 am**

Russia coaches are Saffers
IOL

Russia’s SA coaches Dick Muir, Grant Bashford cold Turkey after World Rugby ban

Durban — Former Sharks coaches Dick Muir and Grant Bashford are devastated after they became collateral damage from Russia’s conflict with Ukraine.

ALSO READ: World Rugby suspends Russia ’until further notice

The pair were coaching the Russian national rugby team until World Rugby yesterday suspended Russia and Belarus from international competition “in the interests rugby’s values of solidarity, integrity, and respect”.

While World Rugby has condemned Russian rugby to isolation, it has pledged renewed support from the Ukraine Rugby Federation.

In a jaw-dropping irony, the Ukraine and Russian rugby teams were sharing a training facility in Turkey when the war broke out and Muir, speaking from Antalya in Turkey, said the players got on just fine.
Muir, a former Springbok assistant coach, was two months ago tasked with transforming Russian Rugby, with Bashford his trusty lieutenant, and a week before their rejuvenated team was about to play arch-rivals Georgia, Russia invaded Ukraine...

“I’m devastated,” Muir told Independent Media. “We were about to play a string of matches in the Rugby Europe Championship (the second division behind the Six Nations).”We were holding out hope that some kind of agreement could keep us playing but that hasn’t happened. It is a massive disappointment for the Russian players as they have put so much effort into changing how they play. They responded really well to what we have been teaching them and there was a genuine belief that we could beat Georgia for the first time in 29 years.”

On the rugby front, Muir says he is most disappointed that the game against Georgia is off because he sensed his team was going to upset the fancied Georgians.

“Georgia is our toughest opposition and we were in a special place ahead of the game,” he said. “Our guys had not beaten them for 29 years and we felt we had turned it around to cause an upset in front of 50 000 Georgians in Tbilisi, which would have been fantastic for Russian rugby.”

Muir says his players had responded very positively to changes he made in the few short months he was with them.

“A combination of things needed to change,” he explained. “They played at a very slow tempo. Their domestic competition — there are ten provinces/clubs —is a very slow, stop-start affair, so we needed to increase the tempo. Then we needed to identify athletes that could play at a higher tempo in a game plan that was suitable for the international level, and we had to train under those circumstances.

“This meant the conditioning had to improve significantly because it had not been good enough to be competitive.

“There is huge potential — that was the excitement of taking this job on. The Russian players are in the same mould as South Africans —they are physical and like contact.

Dick Muir (left) and Grant Bashford plotting as coaches of Russia. Photo: Supplied
“The big difference is they don’t play at a young age so their basics are poor, so you have to correct basics such as running straight and moving the ball to where the space is; offloading in contact, and avoiding contact rather than making contact.”

Muir said the willingness of the players to learn made his job exciting.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:56 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:31 am Russia coaches are Saffers
IOL
Russia’s SA coaches Dick Muir, Grant Bashford cold Turkey after World Rugby ban

Durban — Former Sharks coaches Dick Muir and Grant Bashford are devastated after they became collateral damage from Russia’s conflict with Ukraine.

Thoughts and prayers.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:02 am**

I heard Eddie Jones is a big fan of Putin. *Hint hint*

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:26 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?
IOL
In a jaw-dropping irony, the Ukraine and Russian rugby teams were sharing a training facility in Turkey when the war broke out and Muir, speaking from Antalya in Turkey, said the players got on just fine.
War on the field, friends off the field. The rugby sportsmanship fuck over by politics.

In a country like Russia, where information to huge sections of the population is controlled by the state, the fact they’ve been removed from international competitions can’t be hidden.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:32 am**

Hugo wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:53 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?
Agreed. Punishing civilians for the actions of their government is illiberal and wrong because it doesn't actually affect or hold accountable the people that were responsible but hurts those that weren't.

Should England have been unable to compete for the 2003 RWC because of the invasion of Iraq on a false pretext that same year? For the England team of 2003 that victory was the culmination of years of toil and hard work on the rugby pitch and training paddock and you are going to dash those dreams over a faulty political decision?

Whatever your thoughts about the legality of the Iraq war, it was supported by a large coalition of countries, which included NATO and many others, not just the UK. It was claimed by the US and it’s partners that the war was being conducted in pursuit of UN resolutions, and it was argued at the time that it was ‘legal’. It’s not analogous yo Russia’s unilateral invasion of Ukraine.

It also might have been difficult for Australia to ban England, Wales and Scotland from the World Cup, given that it was also part of the coalition and there were Australian troops in Iraq.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:34 am**

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:58 am I think the idea is to piss off the Russian public. If their countrymen aren't allowed to compete, the public can't tune in or travel to watch & support.

For major sports, this will have economic interests as well (e.g. sponsorship of Russian clubs, Russia not able to host events etc). For minor sports, obviously the impact is much smaller - how many people would be pissed off by not being able to support the archery team, for example?

If we want to treat Russia as a pariah state (which we absolutely should at this time, in my opinion), we have to use all the tools available.

This exactly... it's to help turn the public against Putin in this particular case. Take away their money, entertainment and sport.... who will they blame?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:03 am**

Grandpa wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:34 am
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:58 am I think the idea is to piss off the Russian public. If their countrymen aren't allowed to compete, the public can't tune in or travel to watch & support.

For major sports, this will have economic interests as well (e.g. sponsorship of Russian clubs, Russia not able to host events etc). For minor sports, obviously the impact is much smaller - how many people would be pissed off by not being able to support the archery team, for example?

If we want to treat Russia as a pariah state (which we absolutely should at this time, in my opinion), we have to use all the tools available.
This exactly... it's to help turn the public against Putin in this particular case. Take away their money, entertainment and sport.... who will they blame?

I’m pleased that events like the European Cup Final or whatever it’s called now have been taken away from them. I’d let the Russians go to the Paralympics in China though, there’s no law that says we have to be consistent in these matters.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:36 am**

By the logic of your original post, why levy sanctions that impact any non-combatants?

It all contributes to destabilising the Russian population. Some need to be broken from the hold of state propaganda and a sudden ban on sporting participation can do that, others need a push to take more direct action even though they're well aware of how shitty Putin's regime is.

This is potentially one way to stop the conflict, if Putin's sufficiently worried about the home front then assets start being pulled back or perhaps he ceases things completely.

Sporting isolation is a small part of the effort, but a necessary one.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:40 am**

Don't forget that the Russian athletes were already Under a partial ban due to the many state doping scandals.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:48 am**

laurent wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:40 am Don't forget that the Russian athletes were already Under a partial ban due to the many state doping scandals.

Yep, as if Russia gives a fuck about their athletes beyond the medals they win. The latest example being that poor young girl they damaged in Beijing.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:49 am**

Worth noting that Putin's exploited sports for a while, for example the shenanigans related to getting the 2018 WC into Russia and (as laurent notes above) the state-sponsored doping through which prestige and exposure is gained through illicit means. Sanctions will directly hurt Putin's ability to raise sponsorships, host events where he can control a message and agenda, and reduce the projections of soft power (Christ, that's a crappy term).

Sadly, as usual, it's the little people who bear the brunt but they are certainly not the direct target of this - although if they happen to vent their frustrations on the likes of Putin, more the better, and I'm sure that's part of the broader reasoning.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:23 am**

Please change the title of the thread to "Are Sport Boycotts..." or "Is A Sport Boycott..." The disregard for grammar is doing my fucking head in.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:35 am**

Crash669 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:23 am Please change the title of the thread to "Are Sport Boycotts..." or "Is A Sport Boycott..." The disregard for grammar is doing my fucking head in.

Vokof, I can't change it .

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am**

Crash669 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:23 am Please change the title of the thread to "Are Sport Boycotts..." or "Is A Sport Boycott..." The disregard for grammar is doing my fucking head in.

I just assumed his first language aren’t English.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:59 am**

GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am
Crash669 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:23 am Please change the title of the thread to "Are Sport Boycotts..." or "Is A Sport Boycott..." The disregard for grammar is doing my fucking head in.
I just assumed his first language aren’t English.

you bastard

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:31 am**

Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:59 am
GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am
Crash669 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:23 am Please change the title of the thread to "Are Sport Boycotts..." or "Is A Sport Boycott..." The disregard for grammar is doing my fucking head in.
I just assumed his first language aren’t English.
you bastard

This is when I play the “It isn’t mine either” card.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:52 am**

GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:03 am
Grandpa wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:34 am
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:58 am I think the idea is to piss off the Russian public. If their countrymen aren't allowed to compete, the public can't tune in or travel to watch & support.

For major sports, this will have economic interests as well (e.g. sponsorship of Russian clubs, Russia not able to host events etc). For minor sports, obviously the impact is much smaller - how many people would be pissed off by not being able to support the archery team, for example?

If we want to treat Russia as a pariah state (which we absolutely should at this time, in my opinion), we have to use all the tools available.
This exactly... it's to help turn the public against Putin in this particular case. Take away their money, entertainment and sport.... who will they blame?
I’m pleased that events like the European Cup Final or whatever it’s called now have been taken away from them. I’d let the Russians go to the Paralympics in China though, there’s no law that says we have to be consistent in these matters.

Athletes from Russia and Belarus will be allowed to compete as neutrals at the 2022 Winter Paralympics in Beijing following the invasion of Ukraine.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:56 am**

Hugo wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:53 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?
Agreed. Punishing civilians for the actions of their government is illiberal and wrong because it doesn't actually affect or hold accountable the people that were responsible but hurts those that weren't.

Should England have been unable to compete for the 2003 RWC because of the invasion of Iraq on a false pretext that same year? For the England team of 2003 that victory was the culmination of years of toil and hard work on the rugby pitch and training paddock and you are going to dash those dreams over a faulty political decision?

I agree with much of this. It also seesm boycotts and sanctions are only directed at America's/The West's enemies these days. No one at all suggests them for the USAs invasions of other nations, interference in other countries or military action.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:04 pm**

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:56 am
Hugo wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:53 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?
Agreed. Punishing civilians for the actions of their government is illiberal and wrong because it doesn't actually affect or hold accountable the people that were responsible but hurts those that weren't.

Should England have been unable to compete for the 2003 RWC because of the invasion of Iraq on a false pretext that same year? For the England team of 2003 that victory was the culmination of years of toil and hard work on the rugby pitch and training paddock and you are going to dash those dreams over a faulty political decision?
I agree with much of this. It also seesm boycotts and sanctions are only directed at America's/The West's enemies these days. No one at all suggests them for the USAs invasions of other nations, interference in other countries or military action.

Well I suppose other countries are free to boycott the West if they so wish. But yes, it is grey area/can of worms situation.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:10 pm**

Hugo wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:53 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?
Agreed. Punishing civilians for the actions of their government is illiberal and wrong because it doesn't actually affect or hold accountable the people that were responsible but hurts those that weren't.

Should England have been unable to compete for the 2003 RWC because of the invasion of Iraq on a false pretext that same year? For the England team of 2003 that victory was the culmination of years of toil and hard work on the rugby pitch and training paddock and you are going to dash those dreams over a faulty political decision?

Which intl body of any kind (political or sporting) had imposed sanctions on any country involved in the invasion of Iraq?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:18 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:17 am The sport world slammed Russie. Why penalize good sport people who don't care a fuck about their president?
IOL
In a jaw-dropping irony, the Ukraine and Russian rugby teams were sharing a training facility in Turkey when the war broke out and Muir, speaking from Antalya in Turkey, said the players got on just fine.
War on the field, friends off the field. The rugby sportsmanship fuck over by politics.

Anyway, to answer the question. Yes
1) Participating in sporting events is always as much about national prestige. Particularly where hosting occurs.
2) And if it's hosting, there are economic aspects e.g. an Olympics.
3) Who is funding the organisational bodies that the participants are (willing) members of?
4) And linked to 1) is the visibility in the public profile of this. I remember the 1982 football WC when Spanish police waded in and removed a Solidarity banner from supporters.

If you have a self funded athlete who renounces affiliation to his state sponsored organisation and is willing to compete without any national paraphernalia, then fine.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:40 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:36 am By the logic of your original post, why levy sanctions that impact any non-combatants?

It all contributes to destabilising the Russian population. Some need to be broken from the hold of state propaganda and a sudden ban on sporting participation can do that, others need a push to take more direct action even though they're well aware of how shitty Putin's regime is.

This is potentially one way to stop the conflict, if Putin's sufficiently worried about the home front then assets start being pulled back or perhaps he ceases things completely.

Sporting isolation is a small part of the effort, but a necessary one.

Why do you think our resident Apartheid apologist is against sport bans?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:21 pm**

GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am
Crash669 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:23 am Please change the title of the thread to "Are Sport Boycotts..." or "Is A Sport Boycott..." The disregard for grammar is doing my fucking head in.
I just assumed his first language aren’t English.

Exactly. Did listening to Zelezny give speeches in broken english cause you pain? We're not part of your empire anymore. Learn to deal with it.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm**

We should boycott Israel and China too.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:26 pm**

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:21 pm
GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am
Crash669 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:23 am Please change the title of the thread to "Are Sport Boycotts..." or "Is A Sport Boycott..." The disregard for grammar is doing my fucking head in.
I just assumed his first language aren’t English.
Exactly. Did listening to Zelezny give speeches in broken english cause you pain? We're not part of your empire anymore. Learn to deal with it.

Hook, line and sinker.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:33 pm**

GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:26 pm
FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:21 pm
GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am

I just assumed his first language aren’t English.
Exactly. Did listening to Zelezny give speeches in broken english cause you pain? We're not part of your empire anymore. Learn to deal with it.
Hook, line and sinker.

Yeah I saw what you did there. I was responding to the initial complaint. I guess we're more used to seeing imperfect English because for most South Africans its a second language. Anyway a petty knee jerk reaction from me. Had a shit day.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:43 pm**

GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:31 am
Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:59 am
GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:50 am

I just assumed his first language aren’t English.
you bastard
This is when I play the “It isn’t mine either” card.

Tbf to you, there are more words in the English language which come from Hawaiian than welsh.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:44 pm**

Big Nipper wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:40 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:36 am By the logic of your original post, why levy sanctions that impact any non-combatants?

It all contributes to destabilising the Russian population. Some need to be broken from the hold of state propaganda and a sudden ban on sporting participation can do that, others need a push to take more direct action even though they're well aware of how shitty Putin's regime is.

This is potentially one way to stop the conflict, if Putin's sufficiently worried about the home front then assets start being pulled back or perhaps he ceases things completely.

Sporting isolation is a small part of the effort, but a necessary one.
Why do you think our resident Apartheid apologist is against sport bans?

You support Russia back in the days?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:46 pm**

And I'm not sure about the Paralympics measures. I'm definitely leaning towards the ban them all side

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:54 pm**

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:33 pm
GogLais wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:26 pm
FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:21 pm
Exactly. Did listening to Zelezny give speeches in broken english cause you pain? We're not part of your empire anymore. Learn to deal with it.
Hook, line and sinker.
Yeah I saw what you did there. I was responding to the initial complaint. I guess we're more used to seeing imperfect English because for most South Africans its a second language. Anyway a petty knee jerk reaction from me. Had a shit day.

No worries.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:54 pm**

Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:46 pm And I'm not sure about the Paralympics measures. I'm definitely leaning towards the ban them all side

Part of Putin's objective is to make the Paralympics more competitive.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:55 pm**

A full boycott until this situation is resolved and they've made amends.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:56 pm**

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:54 pm
Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:46 pm And I'm not sure about the Paralympics measures. I'm definitely leaning towards the ban them all side
Part of Putin's objective is to make the Paralympics more competitive.

Jimmy carr was at least 10 years ahead of you with that joke

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm**

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:55 pm A full boycott until this situation is resolved and they've made amends.

The GB Paralympic association has said that they disagree and will look at implications on their participation

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:20 pm**

Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:46 pm And I'm not sure about the Paralympics measures. I'm definitely leaning towards the ban them all side

I think the IPC would have preferred to ban them completely, but because the Paralympics start in two days time, it seems there were concerns about sorting out their legal powers to do at such short notice. This is clearly a compromise measure, but I’m with you; they should have been banned from competing.

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