Meanwhile in Gilead...

[Uncle fester]

Roe v Wade looks like it's going to be overturned.

Country has plenty of other problems but now they'll tear themselves to pieces over this.

[Guy Smiley]

Yeah... it'll go that way. A lurch into...

what? This is as good a spot as any to throw the 7 Mountains thing into conversation.

https://theoutline.com/post/8856/seven- ... aula-white

At first blush, it could be the premise of a terrible airport novel: A group of self-proclaimed “apostles” have a plan rooted in biblical prophecy to “invade” every sphere of life as we know it — and they have the ear of the most powerful man in the world. Unfortunately, the Seven Mountain Mandate is not a work of bad fiction, but a manifesto for evangelical Christians to “conquer” what proponents see as the seven key facets of life: education, religion, family, business, government, entertainment, and media. And while the Democrats are slugging it out to see who becomes the party’s nominee for the 2020 election, 7M, as often called, is coursing through the decrepit veins of the Republican party, offering a vision for total domination at a time when its core constituency is in demographic decline.

The center of evangelical gravity may have shifted from firebrand Southern Baptists to slick Californian megachurches infused with the power of the Holy Spirit, but it is clear that 7M is being used to bring together a new and determined Moral Majority for the 21st century. And while the late televangelist Jerry Falwell and his cohorts might have wanted to save your soul or stop your abortion, this new breed of Prophets, Apostles, and Seven Mountaineers want nothing short of transforming society.

The Seven Mountain Mandate came into being in 1975, when God allegedly delivered a concurrent message to missionary movement leader Loren Cunningham, Campus Campus Crusade for Christ founder Bill Bright, and televangelist Francis Schaeffer to invade the “seven spheres.” The largely dormant idea was resurrected in 2000, when Cunningham met with “strategist, futurist and compelling communicator” Lance Wallnau, and told him about the vision of 25 years earlier. The “prophetic” Wallnau, a 63-year-old business consultant based in Dallas, with a “Doctorate in Ministry with a specialization in Marketplace” from Phoenix University of Theology immediately saw the idea’s potential and began promoting seminars and training courses on the theory as a “template for warfare” for the new century. Its real surge in popularity began in 2013, when Wallnau co-authored the movement’s call to arms, Invading Babylon: The 7 Mountain Mandate, with Pastor Bill Johnson from the prominent California megachurch Bethel Church.

The worrying aspect to this specifically American madness is... it's exportability.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/04/27/sc ... gods-name/

Scott Morrison’s address to the Australian Christian Churches (ACC) gathering on the Gold Coast last week began with a roll call of Christian influence on the government. The words were music to the ears of an adoring audience of Pentecostal Christians lapping up the proof of how far they’d come with one of their own in the highest political office in the land.

“Brother Stewie,” the prime minister said, name-checking Employment Minister Stuart Robert, a fellow Pentecostal. Robert has recently been promoted to the government’s powerful Expenditure Review Committee.

Then there was “brother Matt”, who’d “recently joined us”. This was West Australian Liberal Matt O’Sullivan, elected to the Senate in 2019, who graduated into politics via billionaire Christian businessman Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest’s Minderoo Foundation. In his brief time in Parliament, O’Sullivan has already distinguished himself as a defender of the government’s robodebt scheme (which was incidentally introduced on the watch of Scott Morrison as social services minister).

“It’s wonderful to have [Matt] here joining our band of Christian believers in Canberra … ” Morrison said. “And there’s more of us from all different denominations providing encouragement and fellowship to each other.”

The audience was by now close to a state of rapture.

Here was proof of the outsize influence of Pentecostalism within the Australian government. Followed by just over 1% of Australians, the religion now lays claim to a prime minister, a cabinet minister and a new senator carrying its standard in government.

For Pastor Bob Cotton — a sceptic of the thrusting political power of the ACC and the brand of “prosperity Christianity” it represents — it was a demonstration, too, of the power of the so-called “Seven Mountains mandate” in action.
A Seven Mountains pin-up boy

The Seven Mountains mandate is a little-known Christian movement that aims to wield influence in seven key areas of society. And having Pentecostal Scott Morrison in the Lodge made him “the pin-up boy globally” of the mandate, Cotton told Crikey.

The seven key sectors are: education, religion, family, business, government/military, arts/entertainment, and finally media. (Yes. Media.)

Those who follow the Seven Mountains mandate believe that “before Christ can return” the church must take control of these seven spheres for the glory of Christ. Once the world has been made subject to the kingdom of God, Jesus will return and rule the world. That’s how vital it is to get control.

As Cotton explains, the Seven Mountains mandate is a spin-off of another Christian movement called Dominionism. The name is drawn from the biblical reference to Adam in the Garden of Eden having “dominion over every creature”.

“The bible doesn’t teach this stuff,” Cotton told Crikey. “It’s false but it works on people who are gullible.”

The Seven Mountains mandate operates in some ways like a secret society. If you know the code then you’re in the know. And then you’re in.

[robmatic]

Roe v Wade looks like it's going to be overturned.

Country has plenty of other problems but now they'll tear themselves to pieces over this.

Having highly politicised Supreme Court appointments seems like a terrible idea. Even worse when only one of the political parties is focused on the power plays.

[Hal Jordan]

Outlawing gay marriage, interracial marriage and contraception is the ultimate goal of these fuckers.

[petej]

All these important rights, or phony as Alito calls them, will be removed because the centre got spooked by trans bollox. It's extraordinary stuff

Got to love how old men and religions love to exert control over people. Creepy. Still mystifies me why people associate being religious with being good, decent, honest or any virtuous characteristics. Belonging to an organised religion is a really good way of getting away with being very unpleasant.

[JM2K6]

All these important rights, or phony as Alito calls them, will be removed because the centre got spooked by trans bollox. It's extraordinary stuff

Weird take. They're being removed because the Republicans understood that packing the Supreme Court with deeply conservative judges was a path to victory far more permanent than any single election win, and they're repeating this on a local level as well.

If trans people didn't exist, this would still have happened. The centre didn't make it a 6-3 Court.

[fishfoodie]

It's a fact. The culture wars took off on the back of trans bollox. Its easily argued it swung the election heavily in 2016 and the justices followed that. Feminists could see it, people with eyes could see it. The weirdos who want to stop gay lads getting married had nothing to hook onto until trans rights. Middle America was squirming and idiots like Clinton ignored them.

70% of Americans support the right to choose.

The GOP has rigged the Supreme Court to enable them to continue to jerrymander Districts, so that, "Middle America", continues to hold sway, when its a minority !

The timing of this leak, right at the start of the Mid-Terms will make the entire Nomination process divisive on the single issue that most Politicians never want to talk about.

[Paddington Bear]

It's a fact. The culture wars took off on the back of trans bollox. Its easily argued it swung the election heavily in 2016 and the justices followed that. Feminists could see it, people with eyes could see it. The weirdos who want to stop gay lads getting married had nothing to hook onto until trans rights. Middle America was squirming and idiots like Clinton ignored them.

70% of Americans support the right to choose.

The GOP has rigged the Supreme Court to enable them to continue to jerrymander Districts, so that, "Middle America", continues to hold sway, when its a minority !

The timing of this leak, right at the start of the Mid-Terms will make the entire Nomination process divisive on the single issue that most Politicians never want to talk about.

They haven't rigged the court so much as understood the rules of the game there. It isn't a court as we know it, it's a political weapon and this is why a lot of Republicans were willing to tolerate Trump. A fine advert for the unwritten constitution.

[C69]

It's a fact. The culture wars took off on the back of trans bollox. Its easily argued it swung the election heavily in 2016 and the justices followed that. Feminists could see it, people with eyes could see it. The weirdos who want to stop gay lads getting married had nothing to hook onto until trans rights. Middle America was squirming and idiots like Clinton ignored them.

70% of Americans support the right to choose.

The GOP has rigged the Supreme Court to enable them to continue to jerrymander Districts, so that, "Middle America", continues to hold sway, when its a minority !

The timing of this leak, right at the start of the Mid-Terms will make the entire Nomination process divisive on the single issue that most Politicians never want to talk about.

They haven't rigged the court so much as understood the rules of the game there. It isn't a court as we know it, it's a political weapon and this is why a lot of Republicans were willing to tolerate Trump. A fine advert for the unwritten constitution.

Yes because the Hous eof Lords and the Law Lords add real diversity across the political spectrum

[fishfoodie]

It's a fact. The culture wars took off on the back of trans bollox. Its easily argued it swung the election heavily in 2016 and the justices followed that. Feminists could see it, people with eyes could see it. The weirdos who want to stop gay lads getting married had nothing to hook onto until trans rights. Middle America was squirming and idiots like Clinton ignored them.

70% of Americans support the right to choose.

The GOP has rigged the Supreme Court to enable them to continue to jerrymander Districts, so that, "Middle America", continues to hold sway, when its a minority !

The timing of this leak, right at the start of the Mid-Terms will make the entire Nomination process divisive on the single issue that most Politicians never want to talk about.

You are right, I’ve been in the US for 31years and a citizen now, but I never understood these people ( bigots )that are pro life, pro guns and don’t care about the other issues like healthcare, education, social benefit etc.
This country has become a country of extreme and isn’t changing for a while.

Someone on the News here made a very good point. The release now, is a giant kick up the arse for the generally lazy Democrat voter. Now they have to stop ignoring the nibbling away at the rights, because now the GOP is showing how it plans to abuse it's control of the court, & they need to get off their arses & vote, even of they have to hold their noses while doing so !

It's also a similar kick up the arse for the moderate DNC. They have to stop pretending that the GOP aren't a bunch of nihilistic cunts; & won't burn the planet down; they will !!!!

So stop fucking around hoping they'll act like decent human beings, & accept that the filibuster has to go, & the court has to be reformed to stop the job-for-life mode, & put in term limits. If they have to take the shitstains in their own Party out into the desert & show them the hole they'll be buried in; SO BE IT !

[Tichtheid]

The "pro life" thing is a bit of a misnomer when it comes to capital punishment.

I read someone suggest mandatory vascetomies for all eleven year old boys, that would stop any unwanted pregnancies. The operation is reversible so that when the guy is in a position to start a family he can do so.

This was of course tongue in cheek, the first part was followed by, "What's that? You don't want young boys' bodies being meddled with in an invasive manner? Then mind your own fucking business"

[Paddington Bear]

70% of Americans support the right to choose.

The GOP has rigged the Supreme Court to enable them to continue to jerrymander Districts, so that, "Middle America", continues to hold sway, when its a minority !

The timing of this leak, right at the start of the Mid-Terms will make the entire Nomination process divisive on the single issue that most Politicians never want to talk about.

They haven't rigged the court so much as understood the rules of the game there. It isn't a court as we know it, it's a political weapon and this is why a lot of Republicans were willing to tolerate Trump. A fine advert for the unwritten constitution.

Yes because the Hous eof Lords and the Law Lords add real diversity across the political spectrum

Bizarre point, thanks for raising it

[JM2K6]

It's a fact. The culture wars took off on the back of trans bollox. Its easily argued it swung the election heavily in 2016 and the justices followed that. Feminists could see it, people with eyes could see it. The weirdos who want to stop gay lads getting married had nothing to hook onto until trans rights. Middle America was squirming and idiots like Clinton ignored them.

No, it's not a fact. It's something you made up. It had no bearing on the election - there were tons of things that impacted that election so it's bizarre to see you make shit up

[sockwithaticket]

Morbidly curious to see how the Satanic Temple's attempted loophole works out for people. When certain states recently tried to curtail abortion access the ST claimed it as a religious ritual so that they'd enjoy religious freedom protections.

This is yet another instance where the Christian zealots couldn't be more obvious about the fact that they don't actually read their favourite book. The only reference to abortion in there is an instruction manual on how to induce one, meanwhile life is described as beginning at first breath (ie once a baby is actually born) and inducing a miscarriage is merely a civil matter, not a criminal one. But then it's not actually about a moral or religious stance, it's about controlling women. If they were truly pro-life and anti-teen pregnancy or any of the other bullshit these people spout they'd actually support welfare programs and encourage proper sex education, but no, they just want to dictate what women can do with their bodies.

[Paddington Bear]

Morbidly curious to see how the Satanic Temple's attempted loophole works out for people. When certain states recently tried to curtail abortion access the ST claimed it as a religious ritual so that they'd enjoy religious freedom protections.

This is yet another instance where the Christian zealots couldn't be more obvious about the fact that they don't actually read their favourite book. The only reference to abortion in there is an instruction manual on how to induce one, meanwhile life is described as beginning at first breath (ie once a baby is actually born) and inducing a miscarriage is merely a civil matter, not a criminal one. But then it's not actually about a moral or religious stance, it's about controlling women. If they were truly pro-life and anti-teen pregnancy or any of the other bullshit these people spout they'd actually support welfare programs and encourage proper sex education, but no, they just want to dictate what women can do with their bodies.

I don't think you get far arguing the Bible on this. Like any written text (including Constitutions) it is open to interpretation and is interpreted differently by different groups.

[sockwithaticket]

Morbidly curious to see how the Satanic Temple's attempted loophole works out for people. When certain states recently tried to curtail abortion access the ST claimed it as a religious ritual so that they'd enjoy religious freedom protections.

This is yet another instance where the Christian zealots couldn't be more obvious about the fact that they don't actually read their favourite book. The only reference to abortion in there is an instruction manual on how to induce one, meanwhile life is described as beginning at first breath (ie once a baby is actually born) and inducing a miscarriage is merely a civil matter, not a criminal one. But then it's not actually about a moral or religious stance, it's about controlling women. If they were truly pro-life and anti-teen pregnancy or any of the other bullshit these people spout they'd actually support welfare programs and encourage proper sex education, but no, they just want to dictate what women can do with their bodies.

I don't think you get far arguing the Bible on this. Like any written text (including Constitutions) it is open to interpretation and is interpreted differently by different groups.

Not everything in there is open to interpretation if one makes any pretense at logical consistency or good faith argument. Some things are stand alone references and pretty cut and dried. The bible obviously has issues of credibility, not least that it's current form is the product of countless translations and re-translations over about 1600 years of changing social mores, but that's not the sort of thing the Christian right recognise. They treat the bible as an infallible authority on some of their pet issues like abortion and homosexuality. You aren't going to get far with the vast majority of these zealots whatever angle you come at them from, that doesn't mean the counter-arguments aren't worth articulating in case you reach those who aren't too far gone. There's also worth in not ceding ownership of the religious text to them, it belongs to more moderate and even liberal Christians too, people who base their more tolerant version of faith on other parts of the book or on actually having read it rather than just accepting what their pastors say.

[Tichtheid]

As far as I'm aware there is no mention of abortion in the Bible. There is mention in the Old Testament of what happens when a man hits a pregnant woman and she has a miscarriage - as long as the assailant doesn't go on to kill the woman it's no biggie.

This is in Exodus, along with a handy guide on what happens after you sell your daughter and she is no longer wanted, tips on how to put your mark on slaves after seven years to keep them for life etc. You can beat your servants as much as you like, as long as you don't kill them.

Oh and an important one here, if a bull gores a man to death, after you stone it to death you mustn't eat its meat.

[Paddington Bear]

Morbidly curious to see how the Satanic Temple's attempted loophole works out for people. When certain states recently tried to curtail abortion access the ST claimed it as a religious ritual so that they'd enjoy religious freedom protections.

This is yet another instance where the Christian zealots couldn't be more obvious about the fact that they don't actually read their favourite book. The only reference to abortion in there is an instruction manual on how to induce one, meanwhile life is described as beginning at first breath (ie once a baby is actually born) and inducing a miscarriage is merely a civil matter, not a criminal one. But then it's not actually about a moral or religious stance, it's about controlling women. If they were truly pro-life and anti-teen pregnancy or any of the other bullshit these people spout they'd actually support welfare programs and encourage proper sex education, but no, they just want to dictate what women can do with their bodies.

I don't think you get far arguing the Bible on this. Like any written text (including Constitutions) it is open to interpretation and is interpreted differently by different groups.

Not everything in there is open to interpretation if one makes any pretense at logical consistency or good faith argument. Some things are stand alone references and pretty cut and dried. The bible obviously has issues of credibility, not least that it's current form is the product of countless translations and re-translations over about 1600 years of changing social mores, but that's not the sort of thing the Christian right recognise. They treat the bible as an infallible authority on some of their pet issues like abortion and homosexuality. You aren't going to get far with the vast majority of these zealots whatever angle you come at them from, that doesn't mean the counter-arguments aren't worth articulating in case you reach those who aren't too far gone. There's also worth in not ceding ownership of the religious text to them, it belongs to more moderate and even liberal Christians too, people who base their more tolerant version of faith on other parts of the book or on actually having read it rather than just accepting what their pastors say.

You're basically agreeing with me.

[I like neeps]

It's a fact. The culture wars took off on the back of trans bollox. Its easily argued it swung the election heavily in 2016 and the justices followed that. Feminists could see it, people with eyes could see it. The weirdos who want to stop gay lads getting married had nothing to hook onto until trans rights. Middle America was squirming and idiots like Clinton ignored them.

No, it's not a fact. It's something you made up. It had no bearing on the election - there were tons of things that impacted that election so it's bizarre to see you make shit up

Are you thinking of some other election like Carter? So even the transsexuals got it wrong https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... presidency

In the real world, here are the issues people vote on:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 ... -election/

Trans rights have literally nothing to do with abortion rights on which the Reps have been packing the court to overturn for ages.

RBG's decision to retire after Obama lost the house looking very silly now.

[sockwithaticket]

I don't think you get far arguing the Bible on this. Like any written text (including Constitutions) it is open to interpretation and is interpreted differently by different groups.

Not everything in there is open to interpretation if one makes any pretense at logical consistency or good faith argument. Some things are stand alone references and pretty cut and dried. The bible obviously has issues of credibility, not least that it's current form is the product of countless translations and re-translations over about 1600 years of changing social mores, but that's not the sort of thing the Christian right recognise. They treat the bible as an infallible authority on some of their pet issues like abortion and homosexuality. You aren't going to get far with the vast majority of these zealots whatever angle you come at them from, that doesn't mean the counter-arguments aren't worth articulating in case you reach those who aren't too far gone. There's also worth in not ceding ownership of the religious text to them, it belongs to more moderate and even liberal Christians too, people who base their more tolerant version of faith on other parts of the book or on actually having read it rather than just accepting what their pastors say.

You're basically agreeing with me.

Maybe. I dunno. I'd say open to interpretation is looking at the same passages and coming away with a different meaning, but that's not really what separates American evangelicals or Catholics from a lot of their more liberal counterparts in other branches of the faith. There's a lot of Old Testament emphasis from the former where the latter often run more exclusively with the New Testament because, you know, they're Christians not Jews.It's drawing from different parts of the book rather than disputing the same bits.

On something like homosexuality in the bible, if we leave aside translation controversies for a moment, yes Leviticus is very clear on it, but it's also clear on a lot of other things that people ignore. I don't consider that an interpretation issue, it''s just straight up cherry picking things you do and don't like.

[JM2K6]

It's a fact. The culture wars took off on the back of trans bollox. Its easily argued it swung the election heavily in 2016 and the justices followed that. Feminists could see it, people with eyes could see it. The weirdos who want to stop gay lads getting married had nothing to hook onto until trans rights. Middle America was squirming and idiots like Clinton ignored them.

No, it's not a fact. It's something you made up. It had no bearing on the election - there were tons of things that impacted that election so it's bizarre to see you make shit up

Are you thinking of some other election like Carter? So even the transsexuals got it wrong https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... presidency

Trans rights played a vanishingly small role in the Republican campaign and in Trump's personal line of attack. Trump actually pretended to give a shit about trans people, in case you'd forgotten: https://time.com/5595474/donald-trump-r ... otections/

I realise you just want an excuse to try and pin "trans rights bollox" on everything, but there's no sane or logical reading of the events leading up to the election that makes trans rights to blame for what happened. Trump partly wooed the religious right with his promises on judges, and you'd have to be genuinely certifiable to believe that the calculated assault on the Supreme Court - which started with McConnell's refusal to confirm Merrick Garland, as well as a bunch of other similar acts during the Obama era - was actually anything to do with or caused by trans rights.

Women are about to lose abortion rights because the Republicans have been fighting tooth and nail for this for decades, and realised quite some ago that the way forward to get their agenda was via judicial appointees. It was blatant and it was obvious and it was happening long before trans rights became a cause celebre. And trans rights did not do anything to decide the election - they weren't a big part of either campaign, and Trump's (faked) support for the lgbqt community would've worked against him if that were the case.

There's just no evidence to back up the shit you're coming out with, and blaming trans rights "bollox" for the pitiless ideological destruction of Roe is a dickhead thing to do.

[Paddington Bear]

Not everything in there is open to interpretation if one makes any pretense at logical consistency or good faith argument. Some things are stand alone references and pretty cut and dried. The bible obviously has issues of credibility, not least that it's current form is the product of countless translations and re-translations over about 1600 years of changing social mores, but that's not the sort of thing the Christian right recognise. They treat the bible as an infallible authority on some of their pet issues like abortion and homosexuality. You aren't going to get far with the vast majority of these zealots whatever angle you come at them from, that doesn't mean the counter-arguments aren't worth articulating in case you reach those who aren't too far gone. There's also worth in not ceding ownership of the religious text to them, it belongs to more moderate and even liberal Christians too, people who base their more tolerant version of faith on other parts of the book or on actually having read it rather than just accepting what their pastors say.

You're basically agreeing with me.

Maybe. I dunno. I'd say open to interpretation is looking at the same passages and coming away with a different meaning, but that's not really what separates American evangelicals or Catholics from a lot of their more liberal counterparts in other branches of the faith. There's a lot of Old Testament emphasis from the former where the latter often run more exclusively with the New Testament because, you know, they're Christians not Jews.It's drawing from different parts of the book rather than disputing the same bits.

On something like homosexuality in the bible, if we leave aside translation controversies for a moment, yes Leviticus is very clear on it, but it's also clear on a lot of other things that people ignore. I don't consider that an interpretation issue, it''s just straight up cherry picking things you do and don't like.

That's true both ways though, is my point. We all cherry pick in just about everything we do, which is why I think quoting the Bible at these people is a waste of time.

[fishfoodie]

A whole lot of people pointing out what 24-Carat cretins the Pro-Choice Republicans who confirmed Justices Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett were, & how do they respond to these three being explicitly asked about Row v Wade, & each said that it was the Law of the Land, & all three of them now show that they lied to the Senate !

I'd say that lying in your confirmation hearing was pretty solid evidence that you were unworthy of the position, & all three should be immediately removed from the Court.

[JM2K6]

Are you thinking of some other election like Carter? So even the transsexuals got it wrong https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... presidency

Trans rights played a vanishingly small role in the Republican campaign and in Trump's personal line of attack. Trump actually pretended to give a shit about trans people, in case you'd forgotten: https://time.com/5595474/donald-trump-r ... otections/

I realise you just want an excuse to try and pin "trans rights bollox" on everything, but there's no sane or logical reading of the events leading up to the election that makes trans rights to blame for what happened. Trump partly wooed the religious right with his promises on judges, and you'd have to be genuinely certifiable to believe that the calculated assault on the Supreme Court - which started with McConnell's refusal to confirm Merrick Garland, as well as a bunch of other similar acts during the Obama era - was actually anything to do with or caused by trans rights.

Women are about to lose abortion rights because the Republicans have been fighting tooth and nail for this for decades, and realised quite some ago that the way forward to get their agenda was via judicial appointees. It was blatant and it was obvious and it was happening long before trans rights became a cause celebre. And trans rights did not do anything to decide the election - they weren't a big part of either campaign, and Trump's (faked) support for the lgbqt community would've worked against him if that were the case.

There's just no evidence to back up the shit you're coming out with, and blaming trans rights "bollox" for the pitiless ideological destruction of Roe is a dickhead thing to do.

It was a big issue for middle America. I am not looking it up now as am not arsed in a vanishingly big way but there was loads of evidence for it. I know this as a mate showed me at the time and much enjoyed being right. Trans toilets was a constant theme in local schools in Shitsvilles Alabama

Absolute bullshit.

The Yanks are about to lose abortion rights because the hardcore right wing made it their mission to repeal Roe and saw a path to victory through the Supreme Court. Trans rights had nothing to do with the election, both parties claimed to support lgbqt rights, and any fearmongering was aimed just as much at gay people.

Trans toilets weren't a right wing talking point until after the election. Trans rights were not a factor in the election. The reasons why Trump won are many and varied, but they're also pretty well understood, and trans rights were at most a footnote. Blaming the fight for trans rights for Trump being elected and for this Supreme Court decision is both abhorrent and deeply fucking stupid.

[JM2K6]

No, it's not a fact. It's something you made up. It had no bearing on the election - there were tons of things that impacted that election so it's bizarre to see you make shit up

Are you thinking of some other election like Carter? So even the transsexuals got it wrong https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... presidency

In the real world, here are the issues people vote on:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 ... -election/

Trans rights have literally nothing to do with abortion rights on which the Reps have been packing the court to overturn for ages.

RBG's decision to retire after Obama lost the house looking very silly now.

No no, he has a bigoted mate who told him otherwise, facts aren't important here

[sockwithaticket]

2016 feels like forever ago, so I could be misremembering, but I recall, at least in terms of coverage, the continual attempt to paint Clinton as a criminal was far and away more important than trans issues. Be it her emails or Benghazi or pizzagate, 'Lock her up' seemed overwhelmingly prevalent whenever a group of Trump supporters got together. There were definitely some bathroom stories that came up from time to time, but it was an undercurrent and I'd be amazed if anything credible could be provided to suggest trans issues drove how people voted more than painting Hilary as some sort of she-devil, pedo traitor or traditional issues like abortion and gun control.

[JM2K6]

2016 feels like forever ago, so I could be misremembering, but I recall, at least in terms of coverage, the continual attempt to paint Clinton as a criminal was far and away more important than trans issues. Be it her emails or Benghazi or pizzagate, 'Lock her up' seemed overwhelmingly prevalent whenever a group of Trump supporters got together. There were definitely some bathroom stories that came up from time to time, but it was an undercurrent and I'd be amazed if anything credible could be provided to suggest trans issues drove how people voted more than painting Hilary as some sort of she-devil, pedo traitor or traditional issues like abortion and gun control.

Wikileaks
Comey
Podesta
"But her emails"
"Basket of deplorables"
Strongly anti-immigration line from Trump
Good old sexism and racism
Huge impact from targeting social media
Plenty of personal antipathy towards Clinton herself

Trans issues were far more visible in 2020, when Trump lost to a less impressive candidate.

[JM2K6]

There is literally no evidence of this being an issue of any import for that election, and blaming trans rights for the election & subsequent stacking of the court is absurd. Especially as the issue only became more well known in the time before the last election, where apparently the percentages went the other way, given Trump lost handily.

Blaming trans rights for this is just desperately trying to find a way to blame trans rights for everything, because there's nothing to back it up and it's absurd on the face of it.

[fishfoodie]

2016 feels like forever ago, so I could be misremembering, but I recall, at least in terms of coverage, the continual attempt to paint Clinton as a criminal was far and away more important than trans issues. Be it her emails or Benghazi or pizzagate, 'Lock her up' seemed overwhelmingly prevalent whenever a group of Trump supporters got together. There were definitely some bathroom stories that came up from time to time, but it was an undercurrent and I'd be amazed if anything credible could be provided to suggest trans issues drove how people voted more than painting Hilary as some sort of she-devil, pedo traitor or traditional issues like abortion and gun control.

Wikileaks
Comey
Podesta
"But her emails"
"Basket of deplorables"
Strongly anti-immigration line from Trump
Good old sexism and racism
Huge impact from targeting social media
Plenty of personal antipathy towards Clinton herself

Trans issues were far more visible in 2020, when Trump lost to a less impressive candidate.

The main reason was a lot of democrats and independents couldn’t stand Hillary and her team, don’t forget that 8 years before she lost the democratic nomination against an unknown black guy.

`
The hate for Hillary goes back to when Bill was in Office, & for some back to when he was a Governor. She was always too divisive to be run for the Presidency, but she was also too damn ambitious to let anyone stop her, so she conspired to get one elected who may have started the collapse of Democracy in the US.

[JM2K6]

There is literally no evidence of this being an issue of any import for that election, and blaming trans rights for the election & subsequent stacking of the court is absurd. Especially as the issue only became more well known in the time before the last election, where apparently the percentages went the other way, given Trump lost handily.

Blaming trans rights for this is just desperately trying to find a way to blame trans rights for everything, because there's nothing to back it up and it's absurd on the face of it.

Blame them for everything? Nah but it had an impact there. They are a malign and oversized influence on modern discourse though. I think we all agree on that

What, trans people? Fucking hell, no wonder you don't think your mate is a bigot

[Guy Smiley]

No the trans movement is a malign influence on modern discourse . They are impossible to have a discussion with as most are on the spectrum

Ireland is a strange and fearful place. Unicorns lurk in the mist.

There's a Federal Election due in Australia in 3 weeks. The campaign is on in earnest. Facing hostile polls and a wave of disenfranchised conservatives running as Independents in previously safely conservative held seats on a common platform of climate and corruption concerns, the sitting (Pentecostal) PM over rode state party council concerns and pushed the selection of a candidate who has divided his own party over her strident anti trans stance, along with a now deleted social media history full of some pretty extreme statements bordering on legally defined hate speech.

In the furore that has erupted over her selection and continued presence...something generally considered to have been a deliberate ploy to escalate some sort of culture war designed to wedge opposing candidates and allow the conservative religiously dominated Right to capitalise and benefit as a result, it's been revealed that many sports clubs around the country, that 'safe haven' for women and girls under threat from the approaching wave of trans vampires coming to steal their hopes, their dreams and all of the chaste virtue enshrined in their otherwise unmentionable genital structure and function... there are already many, many trans people playing sport within those club competitions and just getting on with it, along with their team mates.

The whole thing is a confected storm in a conservative tea cup. I figment of the fevered imaginations of those terrorised in childhood by stories of whips, leather and nasty fire breathing demons living under their beds.

Impossible to have a discussion with because they're on the spectrum? That'll be you religious nannies, ER. You hysterics jumping at shadows and seeing the devil in your neighbour's hedgerow.

Get a grip, man.

[sockwithaticket]

This may be more of ER's not taking anything seriously schtick, but, if it is, he was much funnier over in the other place.

[JM2K6]

Jesus Christ. Not sure we should be getting lectured by a guy who doesn't even know there's a difference between trans men and trans women.

I don't doubt there's people being harassed for making anti trans statements. There's an absolute shit ton of feminists who support trans people, though, so let's not pretend it's a thing against "feminists" as a group.

On the flip side, trans people are attacked online, attacked in a media where the balance is overwhelmingly in favour of transphobes, attacked in the political arena, and attacked in the streets. And no Irish edgelord spouting off about something he has barely the first idea about changes those facts. But hey, he's a psychologist now apparently...

[JM2K6]

I am sure you don't have a clue what you're talking about, yeah. Stick to the comedy routine.

[Guy Smiley]

I am sure you don't have a clue what you're talking about, yeah. Stick to the comedy routine.

Why did the trans person cross the road

To get out of Ireland?

[Uncle fester]

I am sure you don't have a clue what you're talking about, yeah. Stick to the comedy routine.

Why did the trans person cross the road

To get out of Ireland?

Hey lever us out of it. We're not all Aontu supporters like ER.

[Tichtheid]

This is the first I've heard of Aontú.

From a quick googling and reading their site, they seem to be a splinter group from Sein Féin, socially conservative/Catholic, with a particular anti-abortion gusto, they seem to have left-leaning views on politics and economics, would that be about right?

[Tichtheid]

Yeah they formed out of opposition to the abortion act and Sinn Feins support of it. Few councillors and one TD. It's bog standard rural conservatives with some left leaning stuff about free cows or some shite. There are no trans people in Ireland so they haven't had to tackle that issue yet

I happen to know an Irish woman who is a prominent figure in trans rights and was involved in framing changes in laws regarding pensions and other rights for trans people in the UK. I haven't been in contact for a while, I believe she moved back to Ireland

[Uncle fester]

This is the first I've heard of Aontú.

From a quick googling and reading their site, they seem to be a splinter group from Sein Féin, socially conservative/Catholic, with a particular anti-abortion gusto, they seem to have left-leaning views on politics and economics, would that be about right?

ER was "moved on" for being too hardline for them.
Sniffing around Justin Barrett's National Party the last I heard.

[Tichtheid]

Jesus sufferin fuck, that Justin Barrett is a right sphincter by the looks of things.