NPR

There is a pack weights comparison graphic that comes up at the first scrum. The Welsh scrum is 124kgs heavier than the Samoan scrum (which easily pushes the Welsh scrum back for a penalty). Incidentally, the Welsh pack weight would be considered lightweight nowadays at 872kgs.

The Samoans just looked much fitter and, frankly, just higher skilled rugby players than the Welsh. The error by Scott Quinnell was the killer and something you might see in lower level club rugby. Almost looks a different game.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:14 am There is a pack weights comparison graphic that comes up at the first scrum. The Welsh scrum is 124kgs heavier than the Samoan scrum (which easily pushes the Welsh scrum back for a penalty). Incidentally, the Welsh pack weight would be considered lightweight nowadays at 872kgs.

The Samoans just looked much fitter and, frankly, just higher skilled rugby players than the Welsh. The error by Scott Quinnell was the killer and something you might see in lower level club rugby. Almost looks a different game.

How quickly did that scrum set though? You'd never see that these days!

If Wales are nit 100% we can lose to practically anyone. Its knowing this what keeps us respectful, humble and fun...
Any South Sea Island team can definately do us..
What was that match where Rupert Moon sent the whole team down a blind alley, and into a brick wall all game long?
F'kingell.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:14 am There is a pack weights comparison graphic that comes up at the first scrum. The Welsh scrum is 124kgs heavier than the Samoan scrum (which easily pushes the Welsh scrum back for a penalty). Incidentally, the Welsh pack weight would be considered lightweight nowadays at 872kgs.

There’s something odd there, it also flashes up average pack weights of 17-2 for Wales and 16-12 for Samoa, which sounds much more like it. I can’t believe the Samoa pack averaged just over 90 kg.

Have no memory of that game, samoa scored some great tries. A Super Six side would beat that Wales team.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:14 am There is a pack weights comparison graphic that comes up at the first scrum. The Welsh scrum is 124kgs heavier than the Samoan scrum (which easily pushes the Welsh scrum back for a penalty). Incidentally, the Welsh pack weight would be considered lightweight nowadays at 872kgs.

The Samoans just looked much fitter and, frankly, just higher skilled rugby players than the Welsh. The error by Scott Quinnell was the killer and something you might see in lower level club rugby. Almost looks a different game.

The scrums could do with a little refining but that looks like a much, much better game than what we have now.

Because the changes have been incremental you don't realise what a fucking dull affair it is these days compared to then.

Slick wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:21 am

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:14 am There is a pack weights comparison graphic that comes up at the first scrum. The Welsh scrum is 124kgs heavier than the Samoan scrum (which easily pushes the Welsh scrum back for a penalty). Incidentally, the Welsh pack weight would be considered lightweight nowadays at 872kgs.

The Samoans just looked much fitter and, frankly, just higher skilled rugby players than the Welsh. The error by Scott Quinnell was the killer and something you might see in lower level club rugby. Almost looks a different game.

The scrums could do with a little refining but that looks like a much, much better game than what we have now.

Because the changes have been incremental you don't realise what a fucking dull affair it is these days compared to then.

The Samoan backs try looked nice, reminded me of how the classic French backs used to play actually. However, the Welsh looked fairly dreadful, not fit, heavy and low on skill.

The mid-90s and up to 2003 (at least) was a great era for Samoa.

Vili, Fa'atau, Fanolua, Lima, Tagicakibau, Va'a, So'oialo; Lealamanua, Meredith, Tomuli, Palepoi, Lafaiali'i, Poulos, Fa'asavalu, Sititi.

Scored an excellent try at the beginning:

Niegs wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:10 pm The mid-90s and up to 2003 (at least) was a great era for Samoa.

Vili, Fa'atau, Fanolua, Lima, Tagicakibau, Va'a, So'oialo; Lealamanua, Meredith, Tomuli, Palepoi, Lafaiali'i, Poulos, Fa'asavalu, Sititi.

Scored an excellent try at the beginning:

I've watched it a number of times now but I still can't believe how passive the England defence looks for that Samoa try. Almost casual and the Samoans hardly did anything special to get the linebreak did they?! And they were the best team in the rugby world - that was the best defence there was at that time, anywhere in the world. Less than 20 years ago - different game.

Kawazaki wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:20 pm

Niegs wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:10 pm The mid-90s and up to 2003 (at least) was a great era for Samoa.

Vili, Fa'atau, Fanolua, Lima, Tagicakibau, Va'a, So'oialo; Lealamanua, Meredith, Tomuli, Palepoi, Lafaiali'i, Poulos, Fa'asavalu, Sititi.

Scored an excellent try at the beginning:

I've watched it a number of times now but I still can't believe how passive the England defence looks for that Samoa try. Almost casual and the Samoans hardly did anything special to get the linebreak did they?! And they were the best team in the rugby world - that was the best defence there was at that time, anywhere in the world. Less than 20 years ago - different game.

The soft drift defence is definitely at fault (catching a backrower and a lock in the backs) at first, but when they swing back, I think it's both the depth of the gain on that play and the quick recycle.

These days, when we get a linebreak like that, there's often a defender spoiling things OR the attacking team go with a pod close to the breakdown, which plays right into the hands of those who converged on the tackle, rather than exploit the wider players out of position. Modern teams would probably have not only slowed down the breakdown an extra second or two, but would probably be back onside with greater purpose - I contend that - but it does my head in that MOST next phases are the 'safe' one close to the breakdown straight into contact, rarely making an attempt to expand upon the gain made on the previous.

IIRC, the joke at the time was Wales were lucky it wasn't the whole of Samoa.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:42 pm IIRC, the joke at the time was Wales were lucky it wasn't the whole of Samoa.

That was 1991. Trust me, I know about these things.

GogLais wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:51 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:42 pm IIRC, the joke at the time was Wales were lucky it wasn't the whole of Samoa.

That was 1991. Trust me, I know about these things.

Ahhh, yes. It's my age, dontcha know?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:42 pm IIRC, the joke at the time was Wales were lucky it wasn't the whole of Samoa.

No, that joke dates from 1991 when Wales lost to Western Samoa, hence the reference to the rest of Samoa.

The game in the OP comes from the 1999 RWC by which time Samoa was simply Samoa (no Western). The commentary even references the earlier game when they say the Samoans have done it again.

The 1991 game was a much bigger shock as no one expected the Samoans to beat one of the top nations. By 1999 Wales losing to lower ranked nations was a common occurrence.

Lobby wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:58 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:42 pm IIRC, the joke at the time was Wales were lucky it wasn't the whole of Samoa.

No, that joke dates from 1991 when Wales lost to Western Samoa, hence the reference to the rest of Samoa.

The game in the OP comes from the 1999 RWC by which time Samoa was simply Samoa (no Western). The commentary even references the earlier game when they say the Samoans have done it again.

The 1991 game was a much bigger shock as no one expected the Samoans to beat one of the top nations. By 1999 Wales losing to lower ranked nations was a common occurrence.

Imagine losing in your own home RWC and being shit. What an embarrassment.