NPR

Barnes could not give a definitive answer when asked whether the tweets from Erasmus might have escalated the abuse, but he suggested that it could inspire others to target officials on social media.

“I don’t know the answer to that. What I would say is that if people see people in positions who are meant to uphold the values of our game openly criticising referees then it allows others to say, ‘People in positions of power can criticise, why can’t I?’”

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:56 am I listened to the podcast, and it's very disturbing.

But just a quick note that he also refers to abuse that other referees have also been receiving, including after the England France game earlier this year.

But I think it's fair to say that Rassie has made the situation worse.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:28 am To genralise like the heading all Saffers are cuntish is also cuntish.

Myself respect Rassie as a coach but will never agree with his videos or any ref bashing. Now I am also a cunt. Mooi. I am a good cunt.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:33 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:28 am To genralise like the heading all Saffers are cuntish is also cuntish.

Myself respect Rassie as a coach but will never agree with his videos or any ref bashing. Now I am also a cunt. Mooi. I am a good cunt.

Think you've been a little bit whooshed by the old bored's tradition of posting exagerrated or misleading titles.

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:17 am I just cannot get my head around how somebody can get so upset over a game, that they actively seek out the referee on social media and threaten to rape his wife. These are sick, sick individuals. No matter how invested in a game you can be, it's still just a game and life goes on.

Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:56 am

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:17 am I just cannot get my head around how somebody can get so upset over a game, that they actively seek out the referee on social media and threaten to rape his wife. These are sick, sick individuals. No matter how invested in a game you can be, it's still just a game and life goes on.

Should be a police matter, every single time.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:42 am I found it an exceptionally tough watch. Not sure where rugby goes from here if Rassie isn't given a proper boot, particularly with a world cup coming up

tc27 wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:04 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:42 am I found it an exceptionally tough watch. Not sure where rugby goes from here if Rassie isn't given a proper boot, particularly with a world cup coming up

Totally Agree Rassie needs to be banned from any kind of formal association with rugby and if possible banned from attending games.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:12 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:04 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:42 am I found it an exceptionally tough watch. Not sure where rugby goes from here if Rassie isn't given a proper boot, particularly with a world cup coming up

Totally Agree Rassie needs to be banned from any kind of formal association with rugby and if possible banned from attending games.

We were talking about this over lunch before Sarries' game on Sunday - I fear for the integrity of a World Cup in which the Saffers need to play (and beat):
Scotland
Ireland
One of France/NZ in the quarters
Semi/Final

It isn't hard to imagine Scotland running them close and being shafted, a close game between Ireland and the boks etc decided by a ref who just doesn't fancy their wife receiving rape threats, and I'm not sure where we go after that.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:12 pm It isn't hard to imagine Scotland running them close and being shafted, a close game between Ireland and the boks etc decided by a ref who just doesn't fancy their wife receiving rape threats, and I'm not sure where we go after that.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:22 am

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:56 am I listened to the podcast, and it's very disturbing.

But just a quick note that he also refers to abuse that other referees have also been receiving, including after the England France game earlier this year.

But I think it's fair to say that Rassie has made the situation worse.

Yeah, ref abuse has been escalating and not all of that is down to Rassie or South Africans, but he has definitely fanned the flames and seems to have cultivated a portion of Bok fans who are convinced the ref has fucked them after every single game.

I don't go on Facebook much, just check my feed for announcements from bands every few days, but I still have the Planet Rugby page displaying things for me and every single article or post that's touched on Rassie, Barnes or refs latelyhas by far the most engagement in terms of comments. Out of morbid curiosity I took a look and it's an absolute avalanche of comments from Saffas insisting one of the following: it's not that bad, it didn't happen/Barnes is making things up, Rassie is a hero, world rugby is out to get the Boks, all refs are terrible and telling them they're shit via social media is a valuable service to rugby, general whataboutism etc.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:58 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:22 am

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:56 am I listened to the podcast, and it's very disturbing.

But just a quick note that he also refers to abuse that other referees have also been receiving, including after the England France game earlier this year.

But I think it's fair to say that Rassie has made the situation worse.

Yeah, ref abuse has been escalating and not all of that is down to Rassie or South Africans, but he has definitely fanned the flames and seems to have cultivated a portion of Bok fans who are convinced the ref has fucked them after every single game.

I don't go on Facebook much, just check my feed for announcements from bands every few days, but I still have the Planet Rugby page displaying things for me and every single article or post that's touched on Rassie, Barnes or refs latelyhas by far the most engagement in terms of comments. Out of morbid curiosity I took a look and it's an absolute avalanche of comments from Saffas insisting one of the following: it's not that bad, it didn't happen/Barnes is making things up, Rassie is a hero, world rugby is out to get the Boks, all refs are terrible and telling them they're shit via social media is a valuable service to rugby, general whataboutism etc.

Yep, it's been noticeable since the Lions tour that Saffa rugby fans have become very angrily vocal on social media and are making a real name for themselves.

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:06 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:12 pm It isn't hard to imagine Scotland running them close and being shafted, a close game between Ireland and the boks etc decided by a ref who just doesn't fancy their wife receiving rape threats, and I'm not sure where we go after that.

Jesus Christ. That's your key take-away from all of this?

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:33 pm

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:06 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:12 pm It isn't hard to imagine Scotland running them close and being shafted, a close game between Ireland and the boks etc decided by a ref who just doesn't fancy their wife receiving rape threats, and I'm not sure where we go after that.

Jesus Christ. That's your key take-away from all of this?

Why would it not be? The referees are clearly being intimidated by South African fans and coaches.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:58 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:22 am

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:56 am I listened to the podcast, and it's very disturbing.

But just a quick note that he also refers to abuse that other referees have also been receiving, including after the England France game earlier this year.

But I think it's fair to say that Rassie has made the situation worse.

Yeah, ref abuse has been escalating and not all of that is down to Rassie or South Africans, but he has definitely fanned the flames and seems to have cultivated a portion of Bok fans who are convinced the ref has fucked them after every single game.

I don't go on Facebook much, just check my feed for announcements from bands every few days, but I still have the Planet Rugby page displaying things for me and every single article or post that's touched on Rassie, Barnes or refs latelyhas by far the most engagement in terms of comments. Out of morbid curiosity I took a look and it's an absolute avalanche of comments from Saffas insisting one of the following: it's not that bad, it didn't happen/Barnes is making things up, Rassie is a hero, world rugby is out to get the Boks, all refs are terrible and telling them they're shit via social media is a valuable service to rugby, general whataboutism etc.

Yep, it's been noticeable since the Lions tour that Saffa rugby fans have become very angrily vocal on social media and are making a real name for themselves.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:25 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:33 pm

assfly wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:06 pm

Jesus Christ. That's your key take-away from all of this?

Why would it not be? The referees are clearly being intimidated by South African fans and coaches.

Was Barnes intimidated in 2007 when the Kiwis gave him death threads and Paddy Obrien agreed to him making mistakes?

He should rather grow a spine and told them to fuck off.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:45 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:25 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:33 pm

Why would it not be? The referees are clearly being intimidated by South African fans and coaches.

Was Barnes intimidated in 2007 when the Kiwis gave him death threads and Paddy Obrien agreed to him making mistakes?

He should rather grow a spine and told them to fuck off.

I’d strongly recommend watching the interview. It’s clear he accepts to an extent personal abuse and also accepts he has made mistakes, but draws a line at his wife being threatened with sexual violence and his kids being threatened as well. As any normal person would.

Which is my point. I’ve reffed myself, you accept you’re not going to be everyone’s mate. What’s happened recently, predominantly coming from SA, is a line has been crossed to such an extent that the world’s top ref with 100 internationals under his belt and as you reference having laughed off having his face used as a urinal previously has considered packing it in. The inference I’ve drawn, that the integrity of the RWC is now plausibly threatened, doesn’t seem like a major leap at all.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:45 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:25 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:33 pm

Why would it not be? The referees are clearly being intimidated by South African fans and coaches.

Was Barnes intimidated in 2007 when the Kiwis gave him death threads and Paddy Obrien agreed to him making mistakes?

He should rather grow a spine and told them to fuck off.

I’d strongly recommend watching the interview. It’s clear he accepts to an extent personal abuse and also accepts he has made mistakes, but draws a line at his wife being threatened with sexual violence and his kids being threatened as well. As any normal person would.

Which is my point. I’ve reffed myself, you accept you’re not going to be everyone’s mate. What’s happened recently, predominantly coming from SA, is a line has been crossed to such an extent that the world’s top ref with 100 internationals under his belt and as you reference having laughed off having his face used as a urinal previously has considered packing it in. The inference I’ve drawn, that the integrity of the RWC is now plausibly threatened, doesn’t seem like a major leap at all.

_Os_ wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:52 pm It's not convincing that Rassie has anything to do with it tbh. Rugby is big time in SA, especially in the western half of the country where it's a real national sport (multi class/culture/race, rugby being played to a high standard in clubs/schools/unis), the absolute number of individual people interested in the sport is much larger than anywhere else comparable. Maybe areas of France are similar in terms of raw numbers and interest across all of society, but there's a language barrier there.

In amateur club rugby there's been things like hooligan violence between opposing fans, and teams playing behind fences so fans cannot get onto the pitch to attack players. The sort of thing you would usually associate with European soccer. This is what happens when a sport really is big.

All this is old too. During the 1974 Lions tour Tommy Bedford was attacked by the Lions in the match against Natal, so the Kings Park crowd invaded the pitch and started beating the Lions players, forcing the Lions to retreat. This is the sort of shit that gets passed down from father to son. Nartjies and all the rest have always been thrown at the opposing team and the ref too..

Doing whatever to Rassie isn't going to stop someone in a suburb of CT/Joburg/Durban being a bit of a hooligan online.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:16 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:45 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:25 pm

Was Barnes intimidated in 2007 when the Kiwis gave him death threads and Paddy Obrien agreed to him making mistakes?

He should rather grow a spine and told them to fuck off.

I’d strongly recommend watching the interview. It’s clear he accepts to an extent personal abuse and also accepts he has made mistakes, but draws a line at his wife being threatened with sexual violence and his kids being threatened as well. As any normal person would.

Which is my point. I’ve reffed myself, you accept you’re not going to be everyone’s mate. What’s happened recently, predominantly coming from SA, is a line has been crossed to such an extent that the world’s top ref with 100 internationals under his belt and as you reference having laughed off having his face used as a urinal previously has considered packing it in. The inference I’ve drawn, that the integrity of the RWC is now plausibly threatened, doesn’t seem like a major leap at all.

Now why do you throw a tantrum? Grow a thick skin Boet.

Biffer wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:59 pm

_Os_ wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:52 pm It's not convincing that Rassie has anything to do with it tbh. Rugby is big time in SA, especially in the western half of the country where it's a real national sport (multi class/culture/race, rugby being played to a high standard in clubs/schools/unis), the absolute number of individual people interested in the sport is much larger than anywhere else comparable. Maybe areas of France are similar in terms of raw numbers and interest across all of society, but there's a language barrier there.

In amateur club rugby there's been things like hooligan violence between opposing fans, and teams playing behind fences so fans cannot get onto the pitch to attack players. The sort of thing you would usually associate with European soccer. This is what happens when a sport really is big.

All this is old too. During the 1974 Lions tour Tommy Bedford was attacked by the Lions in the match against Natal, so the Kings Park crowd invaded the pitch and started beating the Lions players, forcing the Lions to retreat. This is the sort of shit that gets passed down from father to son. Nartjies and all the rest have always been thrown at the opposing team and the ref too..

Doing whatever to Rassie isn't going to stop someone in a suburb of CT/Joburg/Durban being a bit of a hooligan online.

So Russia is just a symptom not a cause? Cool, cool.

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:51 pm While World Rugby sanctions Rassie, & not South Africa, any sanction is meaningless !

Solution; implement something like a penalty points system drivers have to deal with. Player chat gets too much for a Ref, that turns into 1 or 2 points; coach mouths off after the fact, that can be 6-12 points.

Once the team gets 12 points; the team cops a ban, & they can argue amoungst themselves why they're banned; whether it was their players being mouthy, or their coach being a prick, or their fans behaving like animals; but the bottom line is the team as a whole suffers, & they can't dodge it. I'd also dock the team ranking points, so that consistently shit behaviour results in the Union suffering, & a crap WRC draw.

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:33 pm Why would it not be? The referees are clearly being intimidated by South African fans and coaches.

assfly wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:30 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:33 pm Why would it not be? The referees are clearly being intimidated by South African fans and coaches.

As despicable as these fans are, this is not only a South African problem.

Barnes spoke of the abuse other referees have received too.
Remember when Ellis Genge received racist abuse online a couple of years back?
Ben O'Keeffe receiving abuse after Ireland's win over Australia last month.
Pau head coach grabs the arm of the ref last weekend.
Nigel Owens and Gareth Thomas receiving homophobic abuse.

So how you arrive at your deluded conclusion is quite astounding.