NPR

A pack of soul-destroying conservative whingers.

Post your favourite HR intervention in your workplace.

A classic from our's recently. Context:

Our factory has the main shopfloor, 2 separate office buildings and a large warehouse.

HR have decreed that the company must have an official radio station that is the only one that can be played on various radios across our site. Employees get the chance to vote for their favourite, and the winning entry will be adopted.

So the lads in the warehouse that like listening to Absolute Classic Rock now have to listen to some commercial pop pish radio station because Shaz and her cohort of cake-eating fatty colleagues in admin/HR like listening to the same 6 songs on loop.

So many, soooo many.

One of my favourites going back a few years was HR and the wider business decided things were going really well and they wanted to open exam qualifications to every worker, and they'd incentivise by saying each work placed exam successfully completed would see £1000 paid to the employee in question. But it turns out things weren't going as well as thought because some people could count, and naturally they were among those doing the accounts. At which point HR decided not unreasonably to remove the entire budget for paying people who'd studied for and passed exams as per the HR directive that had encouraged them, fair enough if the alternative was letting people go, but the part that came next was genius as HR decided not to tell anyone in case it caused reduced levels of contentment among the workers, they just let people find out when the money didn't hit their bank accounts as expected.

I remember well when that came to light ahead of it being a problem and being told to shut up by my then Director at a departmental manager meeting for raising objections. Though I also later found out my Director was also told to shut up at the board hearing as he too had noted this was not a plan that was going to work

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:42 pm
So the lads in the warehouse that like listening to Absolute Classic Rock now have to listen to some commercial pop pish radio station because Shaz and her cohort of cake-eating fatty colleagues in admin/HR like listening to the same 6 songs on loop.

No more of the following 6 songs on loop for the lads then?

Africa - Toto
Don't Stop Believin' - Journey
Owner of a Lonely Heart - Yes
Hotel California - Eagles
Don't Stop Me Now - Queen
The Boys Are Back in Town - Thin Lizzy

HR - The favoutite saying at a place where i once worked was

Those who can't do - Teach

Those who can't teach - Teach PE

Those who can't teach PE - work in HR

Trying to explain to younger people that HR exists to protect the company , rather the the staff , usually got met with unbelieving looks , until they became involved with HR.

The utter worst was a collegue who died during lockdown - not covid related , but pancreatic cancer - so really quick , relatively young guy , with young family, but same guy had been with the company for over 20 years

As it was during lockdown, limited numbers were allow at the funeral , and the Company insisted that a member of HR went to the funeral - to '"represent the company"

Thie HR person didn't know the guy from Adam , and took the place of someone who would have really wanted to go - then in the end didn't even atend the funeral - "because something else came up"

HR didn't even let the rest of staff know that the poor guy had died , some people only found out about it last week , a couple of years later.

The loathing of that HR department knows no bounds

Some HR people get it. Some are just ghastly and dreadful jobsworths that very often prevent the company that they work for from being capable of achieving the goals that it might otherwise be capable of. Virtually all companies spend at least half of their revenues on salaries, most are nearer to 70+%, especially when you factor in non-remuneration costs to employ, and yet they treat attraction and retention strategies with less interest than the new chairs in reception or the colour of the carpet.

Retention strategies being a distant nth to hiring strategies really gets my goat.

Everyone has to learn for themselves that HR is there to protect the company, of course.



I'll defend them a little bit - I'm putting together a team (for the first time, my role has always been a solo one) and the HR + careers people were massively helpful for me. They're also really on it for mental health stuff and actually trying to do more than just paying lipservice to pro-worker statements. But this is a first in my >20 years of working in tech.

Whether their function is to protect company or people, you'd hope that there were empathetic people in it. In one year I had a series of small, but frustrating run-ins that left me feeling bloody annoyed.

On three occasions, I'd got to an actual face-to-face interview stage (two by video, one in person which involved a 4hr round trip so had to take an unpaid day off) and was not told, even in an email, that I didn't get the job.

The job I was working at the time, as a library tech for a school, was a 10-month renewing contract where they laid you off every summer and hired back in the autumn (and paid shit). I'd found something to do over the summer, but they wanted me to start during the final week schools were open. Classes were well over, it was marking time for teachers, clean-up time for support staff. I explained to my supervisor (who managed the library techs for the whole board), she gave my blessing to leave early after talking with the principal, agreeing that I'd squared everything away and there wasn't anything to do. Supervisor approved for me to take an unpaid leave to do this thing. HR denied it, saying I wasn't allowed to take an unpaid leave when on contract until the end of the month. Utterly baffling as to why, supervisor said she talked to them but HR manager blocked her.

The position I was going to do over the summer wasn't great - a sport development role, might have even cost me money given the move and rent in that location but would have been great for my ambitions as a coach educator. They ended up going with someone else and I sat around all week doing the bare minimum with World Cup footy on a big projector screen in the library. Decided I owed them nothing more so stepped up my efforts to leave (but then had those three frustrating interview experiences mentioned earlier).

Kawazaki wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:18 pm Some HR people get it. Some are just ghastly and dreadful jobsworths that very often prevent the company that they work for from being capable of achieving the goals that it might otherwise be capable of. Virtually all companies spend at least half of their revenues on salaries, most are nearer to 70+%, especially when you factor in non-remuneration costs to employ, and yet they treat attraction and retention strategies with less interest than the new chairs in reception or the colour of the carpet.

I think the college I worked for the last few years fully understood this. You got the feeling they were there to help you in any way. And I felt they truly considered applicants' skills, background, intangibles, giving managers the best from a large cohort of applicants.

Wanting to move to a province that's more affordable, I applied to another school last summer. HR seemed excited about what I could offer beyond what the typical support staff do - stressing my 20 years coaching experience, interest in helping out with after-school clubs, and even the possibility of taking up a role in the boarding house. They asked if I could come in for a face-to-face ... well I currently live on the opposite side of the country. I didn't ask about flight/accommodation (I've had this before with two other private schools), but hinted at it. "We really want to meet candidates, so thank you for your interest. We will be going with our local candidates." What?! In the age of Zoom? They've got money to put me on a plane and back for a day if it's that important to them.

I felt like if I'd emailed the Head Master showing the extra qualities I'd bring, I'd have been in. But I'm such a rule follower, I didn't feel that appropriate. It left me questioning whether HR truly know/care about what makes an ideal staff member for a vibrant boarding school.

They are all gossiping shites as well. Allegedly they advertise themselves as confidents of workers, yet spill the beans on everyone's personal lives after a few strawberry daiquiris.

Dogbert wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:26 pm Trying to explain to younger people that HR exists to protect the company , rather the the staff , usually got met with unbelieving looks , until they became involved with HR.

Not just younger people, but people old enough to have developed the cynicism to treat any statement from HR with extreme skepticism !

Every year when the review period came around, & pay budgets were being agreed, we'd hear from HR, how they were going out to do their usual, "Salary Survey", & we could rest assured, that the pay rises would be part merit, & part mark-to-market, & they'd give us a big spiel about the job roles, & the business areas etc.

And it was always an absolute crock of shit !

A child of six could work out what happens when you get the HR people from all the leading IT, Tech, Pharma companies talking about how much they pay different job roles; & it, sure as shit isn't them working out how to reward their workers better*.

One year they announced that they were no longer going to match our orgs job role against Developers, but instead we were now Product Development Engineers. I think I rolled my eyes so hard, the drone felt obliged to assure us that this was because of Industry changes, & they were continually trying to find the best match for our ,"Unique" roles

My self-control broke at that instant , & just said; "So it's not because Google etc are now driving up Developers wages by 20% then ?"

If looks could kill; & that was from my boss; all the drone could do was giggle like an extra in Clueless.

* Several years later I had this confirmed by a very senior HR person, who'd retired from full-time work; & even before that, a massive non-compete scam was uncovered in Silicon Valley, & US workers in my job were able to join a Class-Action lawsuit.

When I first started in the police the HR department or whatever it was known as then, consisted of two retired officers with two or three of the largest ledgers you would ever see to organise shifts, leave, time off etc. Everything ran like a well oiled clock. Now the same division, with probably less front line officers, will have between 15 and 20 civilian staff utilising computers to fuck the job up completely and make the cops lives a misery.

I was just going to say, it was a Personnel officer and his one assistant when I started work. I loathe the term "human resources" as well.

Blackmac wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:18 pm When I first started in the police the HR department or whatever it was known as then, consisted of two retired officers with two or three of the largest ledgers you would ever see to organise shifts, leave, time off etc. Everything ran like a well oiled clock. Now the same division, with probably less front line officers, will have between 15 and 20 civilian staff utilising computers to fuck the job up completely and make the cops lives a misery.

Sounds weird, but I'd love to have a chat with people about their ability to organize 'analog' like that.

I ran a minis tournament last year with paper, a wall chart, and handouts. I started making the schedule online but it was so difficult for my brain to figure out, but when I made little cards for each team's matches and moved them around on the floor it was so much easier.

Just saw a job posting for "Coordinator of People and Culture" and have seen this more and more. First item in the job description: "Respond to inquiries from employees and members of the public, provide information and guidance including policy interpretation and referrals where appropriate"

... so these people are meant to be the more helpful 'HR' staff?

Blackmac wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:18 pm When I first started in the police the HR department or whatever it was known as then, consisted of two retired officers with two or three of the largest ledgers you would ever see to organise shifts, leave, time off etc. Everything ran like a well oiled clock. Now the same division, with probably less front line officers, will have between 15 and 20 civilian staff utilising computers to fuck the job up completely and make the cops lives a misery.

Yes it is staggering how large these departments get. Once you hire a team they demand an admin person. Then they need someone to help run an internal process. And of course you need to cover them whilst they're off. Now the team has doubled so they need etc etc

Say what you like about vast swathes of the shite Musk is pulling, but part of me hopes twitter can be viable proof of something I have banged on about - a lot of companies would likely be more efficient with half the staff.

Niegs wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:28 am Just saw a job posting for "Coordinator of People and Culture" and have seen this more and more. First item in the job description: "Respond to inquiries from employees and members of the public, provide information and guidance including policy interpretation and referrals where appropriate"

... so these people are meant to be the more helpful 'HR' staff?

We have a "people team". I'll be honest - they're an upgrade on HR. Not a public facing thing like that job description, but basically making sure that everyone's getting good career advice, organising events, celebrating successes, putting a ton of work into making sure people get the support they need professionally, big on mental health - and it doesn't seem to be lip service either. I am cautiously impressed.

They are becoming big in industry

Usually the most peppy girl you can remember from School is the type who excels in the role

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:24 am

Blackmac wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:18 pm When I first started in the police the HR department or whatever it was known as then, consisted of two retired officers with two or three of the largest ledgers you would ever see to organise shifts, leave, time off etc. Everything ran like a well oiled clock. Now the same division, with probably less front line officers, will have between 15 and 20 civilian staff utilising computers to fuck the job up completely and make the cops lives a misery.

Yes it is staggering how large these departments get. Once you hire a team they demand an admin person. Then they need someone to help run an internal process. And of course you need to cover them whilst they're off. Now the team has doubled so they need etc etc

Say what you like about vast swathes of the shite Musk is pulling, but part of me hopes twitter can be viable proof of something I have banged on about - a lot of companies would likely be more efficient with half the staff.

The salaries that HR people get are generally fairly healthy as well given the general level of competence in doing their job.

Nothing more fun and embarrassing than a new starter arriving to inform you that his/her IT access has it's name spelled incorrectly because HR can't cross-check a passport/ID/CV before fat finger typing a name on a form before hitting send.

robmatic wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:33 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:24 am

Blackmac wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:18 pm When I first started in the police the HR department or whatever it was known as then, consisted of two retired officers with two or three of the largest ledgers you would ever see to organise shifts, leave, time off etc. Everything ran like a well oiled clock. Now the same division, with probably less front line officers, will have between 15 and 20 civilian staff utilising computers to fuck the job up completely and make the cops lives a misery.

Yes it is staggering how large these departments get. Once you hire a team they demand an admin person. Then they need someone to help run an internal process. And of course you need to cover them whilst they're off. Now the team has doubled so they need etc etc

Say what you like about vast swathes of the shite Musk is pulling, but part of me hopes twitter can be viable proof of something I have banged on about - a lot of companies would likely be more efficient with half the staff.

The salaries that HR people get are generally fairly healthy as well given the general level of competence in doing their job.

Like a lot of these sort of jobs, they're very effective at convincing people that they are a crucial cog in the operation. Not least because they put some distance between managers and hiring/firing decisions

Insane_Homer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:13 am Nothing more fun and embarrassing than a new starter arriving to inform you that his/her IT access has it's name spelled incorrectly because HR can't cross-check a passport/ID/CV before fat finger typing a name on a form before hitting send.

At least the automated onboarding means you get notice of the new starter

Prembore wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:28 pm I was just going to say, it was a Personnel officer and his one assistant when I started work. I loathe the term "human resources" as well.

It's laughably called People Services in my place of work. It's still Company Protection Services, of course.

My "if looks could kill" anecdote is that I was once in a meeting where we were reviewing applicants for a Director role which included responsibility for the company's whistleblowing and safeguarding policies (which, remarkably, were not housed under HR - probably originally implemented by someone with a very good understanding of HR priorities, then).

One candidate was an HR director but had written an application devoid of any sign of human emotion and empathy - genuinely the most robotic letter I've read in my life. The HR rep on the panel then said "but of course, given his extensive experience in HR, he will have excellent people skills". At which point I just laughed out loud and topped it off by saying the opposite was more likely to be true. Didn't go down well. The only guy on the panel appreciating it was the gruff denim-jacket union rep who was specifically there to ensure attention would be paid to the whistleblowing and safeguarding bit of the role. Big pat on the back and free pints from him later that week, so it was worth it. Also; never got asked for interview panels again, which saved me a truckload of time too.

In 10 years in a bank HR introduced a new appraisal process three times. This is an organisation of 80k people in which everyone had to get grips with three new processes, none of which anyone actually doing the work could see how they improved the process, or led to different outcomes.

The biggest issue by far was that we were told what our budget for salary increses were, but were then told the percentage raises that would be awarded for each rating. Giving us a budget increase pot is fine, but leave us to work out how to allocate it. By setting the increase budget and the raises for ratings, managers were left manipulating the ratings to get everything to fit.

No one took the process seriously as it seen purely as a budget allocation process, not as a means to properly assess performance, identify areas for improvement etc.

weegie01 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:57 am In 10 years in a bank HR introduced a new appraisal process three times. This is an organisation of 80k people in which everyone had to get grips with three new processes, none of which anyone actually doing the work could see how they improved the process, or led to different outcomes.

The biggest issue by far was that we were told what our budget for salary increses were, but were then told the percentage raises that would be awarded for each rating. Giving us a budget increase pot is fine, but leave us to work out how to allocate it. By setting the increase budget and the raises for ratings, managers were left manipulating the ratings to get everything to fit.

No one took the process seriously as it seen purely as a budget allocation process, not as a means to properly assess performance, identify areas for improvement etc.

HR KPIs - the worst kind

mat the expat wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:15 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:13 am Nothing more fun and embarrassing than a new starter arriving to inform you that his/her IT access has it's name spelled incorrectly because HR can't cross-check a passport/ID/CV before fat finger typing a name on a form before hitting send.

At least the automated onboarding means you get notice of the new starter

Good old MIM

I've never encountered an appraisal process worth its salt. Labour intensive for line management, unfulfilling and uninformative for those being managed. Their usual purpose seems to be to justify putting staff into pre-decided bandings so that the bonus pot doesn't go over budget

Prembore wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:11 am I've never encountered an appraisal process worth its salt. Labour intensive for line management, unfulfilling and uninformative for those being managed. Their usual purpose seems to be to justify putting staff into pre-decided bandings so that the bonus pot doesn't go over budget

This 100%, add ni things like talent making like 9 box grids.....we all know who the slackers and superstars are, but HR wont allow us to sack the slackers.

ASMO wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:48 am

Prembore wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:11 am I've never encountered an appraisal process worth its salt. Labour intensive for line management, unfulfilling and uninformative for those being managed. Their usual purpose seems to be to justify putting staff into pre-decided bandings so that the bonus pot doesn't go over budget

This 100%, add ni things like talent making like 9 box grids.....we all know who the slackers and superstars are, but HR wont allow us to sack the slackers.

Microsoft used to have an approach - stack ranking - that saw the lowest 10% automatically sacked. Typical of the big American corporates to try to manage by metrics rather than truly understand. As you note, it's not hard to identify the shirkers and the Charlatans, but these people are usually good at gaming figures and metrics.

The whole stack ranking doesn't work, funnily enough, so Microsoft binned it 10 or so years ago.

Prembore wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:11 am I've never encountered an appraisal process worth its salt. Labour intensive for line management, unfulfilling and uninformative for those being managed. Their usual purpose seems to be to justify putting staff into pre-decided bandings so that the bonus pot doesn't go over budget

Or as was the case for my former employer; for putting people into a band that will within the next year, qualify them for layoff, without actually warning them that this was possible, because HR knew if they did so, they'd have to deal with 10% of staff contesting their evaluation, & flooding the system with appeals.

ASMO wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:48 am

Prembore wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:11 am I've never encountered an appraisal process worth its salt. Labour intensive for line management, unfulfilling and uninformative for those being managed. Their usual purpose seems to be to justify putting staff into pre-decided bandings so that the bonus pot doesn't go over budget

This 100%, add ni things like talent making like 9 box grids.....we all know who the slackers and superstars are, but HR wont allow us to sack the slackers.

Hanging on to the useless is just as demoralizing as not promoting/paying the people doing a good job as they are probably picking up the slack for the others.

ASMO wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:01 am

mat the expat wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:15 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:13 am Nothing more fun and embarrassing than a new starter arriving to inform you that his/her IT access has it's name spelled incorrectly because HR can't cross-check a passport/ID/CV before fat finger typing a name on a form before hitting send.

At least the automated onboarding means you get notice of the new starter

Good old MIM

You want a laptop for a new Starter we didn't know about and you won't give me a budget for spare stock?