Rugby used to play GSTQ before matches as Scotland did not have its own official anthem. It had to be changed for the 1990 Grand Slam game as by then it was getting roundly booed when played at Murrayfield. At other events such as the Commonwealth Games, 'Scotland the Brave' was played. AFAIK it was the players who wanted 'Flower of Scotland' when logic would suggest using what had been used for other sporting events was the sensible way to go. 'Flower of Scotland' has replaced 'Scotland the Brave' in other events where it was previously used. 'Scotland the Brave' is one of those pipe tunes that everyone, Scots or not, spontaneously claps along to.
Since you are a Canadian -
The lyrics are also deemed better by many as rather being anti anyone, they are clebrating Scotland
Hark when the night is falling
Hear! hear the pipes are calling,
Loudly and proudly calling,
Down through the glen.
There where the hills are sleeping,
Now feel the blood a-leaping,
High as the spirits
Of the old Highland men.
Towering in gallant fame,
Scotland my mountain hame,
High may your proud standards, Gloriously wave,
Land of my high endeavour,
Land of the shining rivers,
Land of my heart for ever,
Scotland the brave.
High in the misty Highlands,
Out by the purple islands,
Brave are the hearts that beat
Beneath Scottish skies.
Wild are the winds to meet you,
Staunch are the friends that greet you,
Kind as the love that shines
From fair maidens' eyes.
Far off in sunlit places,
Sad are the Scottish faces,
Yearning to feel the kiss
Of sweet Scottish rain.
Where tropic skies are beaming,
Love sets the heart a-dreaming,
Longing and dreaming for the homeland again.
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:27 pm
by sockwithaticket
Can we just ditch anthems altogether and crack on with the game? I'd kinda miss La Marseillaise, but that's the only one I actually like to hear. The rest are just providing time for me to go for a piss or grab a drink last minute before kick off.
Kudos to Telfer for voicing what's likely to be an unpopular, but worthy opinion. It does feel off for an anthem to be so anti a specific neighbour.
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:43 pm
by Jock42
I think it's a great folk song but, for as rousing as it is, it's a pish anthem.
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:52 pm
by Paddington Bear
Interesting to learn it was a folk song, always felt it was better suited to a bloke with a beard and a guitar singing it by the fire in a pub. Never got the hype
If I were Scottish I’d run through walls after hearing Scots Wha Hae
Rugby used to play GSTQ before matches as Scotland did not have its own official anthem. It had to be changed for the 1990 Grand Slam game as by then it was getting roundly booed when played at Murrayfield. At other events such as the Commonwealth Games, 'Scotland the Brave' was played. AFAIK it was the players who wanted 'Flower of Scotland' when logic would suggest using what had been used for other sporting events was the sensible way to go. 'Flower of Scotland' has replaced 'Scotland the Brave' in other events where it was previously used. 'Scotland the Brave' is one of those pipe tunes that everyone, Scots or not, spontaneously claps along to.
Since you are a Canadian -
The lyrics are also deemed better by many as rather being anti anyone, they are clebrating Scotland
Hark when the night is falling
Hear! hear the pipes are calling,
Loudly and proudly calling,
Down through the glen.
There where the hills are sleeping,
Now feel the blood a-leaping,
High as the spirits
Of the old Highland men.
Towering in gallant fame,
Scotland my mountain hame,
High may your proud standards, Gloriously wave,
Land of my high endeavour,
Land of the shining rivers,
Land of my heart for ever,
Scotland the brave.
High in the misty Highlands,
Out by the purple islands,
Brave are the hearts that beat
Beneath Scottish skies.
Wild are the winds to meet you,
Staunch are the friends that greet you,
Kind as the love that shines
From fair maidens' eyes.
Far off in sunlit places,
Sad are the Scottish faces,
Yearning to feel the kiss
Of sweet Scottish rain.
Where tropic skies are beaming,
Love sets the heart a-dreaming,
Longing and dreaming for the homeland again.
I didn’t know there were words!
Speaking of marches, Rugby Canada tried to shoe-horn a pre match song with a contest and the winning submission was proper shit. I think the players maybe even sang it at one test?
I entered the contest saying just adapt for modern sensibilities a verse (not dissimilar to FoS) from our unofficial national anthem that’d have been sung during the war…
Chorus
The Maple Leaf, our emblem dear,
The Maple Leaf forever!
God save our Queen and Heaven bless
The Maple Leaf forever!
At Queenston Heights and Lundy's Lane,
Our brave fathers, side by side,
For freedom, homes and loved ones dear,
Firmly stood and nobly died;
And those dear rights which they maintained,
We swear to yield them never!
Our watchword evermore shall be
"The Maple Leaf forever!"
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:12 pm
by Jock42
Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:52 pm
Interesting to learn it was a folk song, always felt it was better suited to a bloke with a beard and a guitar singing it by the fire in a pub. Never got the hype
If I were Scottish I’d run through walls after hearing Scots Wha Hae
No fire I'm afraid. The beardless bloke wrote it, the bearded one sang it a few times at Murrayfield.
Rugby used to play GSTQ before matches as Scotland did not have its own official anthem. It had to be changed for the 1990 Grand Slam game as by then it was getting roundly booed when played at Murrayfield. At other events such as the Commonwealth Games, 'Scotland the Brave' was played. AFAIK it was the players who wanted 'Flower of Scotland' when logic would suggest using what had been used for other sporting events was the sensible way to go. 'Flower of Scotland' has replaced 'Scotland the Brave' in other events where it was previously used. 'Scotland the Brave' is one of those pipe tunes that everyone, Scots or not, spontaneously claps along to.
Since you are a Canadian -
The lyrics are also deemed better by many as rather being anti anyone, they are clebrating Scotland
Hark when the night is falling
Hear! hear the pipes are calling,
Loudly and proudly calling,
Down through the glen.
There where the hills are sleeping,
Now feel the blood a-leaping,
High as the spirits
Of the old Highland men.
Towering in gallant fame,
Scotland my mountain hame,
High may your proud standards, Gloriously wave,
Land of my high endeavour,
Land of the shining rivers,
Land of my heart for ever,
Scotland the brave.
High in the misty Highlands,
Out by the purple islands,
Brave are the hearts that beat
Beneath Scottish skies.
Wild are the winds to meet you,
Staunch are the friends that greet you,
Kind as the love that shines
From fair maidens' eyes.
Far off in sunlit places,
Sad are the Scottish faces,
Yearning to feel the kiss
Of sweet Scottish rain.
Where tropic skies are beaming,
Love sets the heart a-dreaming,
Longing and dreaming for the homeland again.
I didn’t know there were words!
Speaking of marches, Rugby Canada tried to shoe-horn a pre match song with a contest and the winning submission was proper shit. I think the players maybe even sang it at one test?
I entered the contest saying just adapt for modern sensibilities a verse (not dissimilar to FoS) from our unofficial national anthem that’d have been sung during the war…
Chorus
The Maple Leaf, our emblem dear,
The Maple Leaf forever!
God save our Queen and Heaven bless
The Maple Leaf forever!
At Queenston Heights and Lundy's Lane,
Our brave fathers, side by side,
For freedom, homes and loved ones dear,
Firmly stood and nobly died;
And those dear rights which they maintained,
We swear to yield them never!
Our watchword evermore shall be
"The Maple Leaf forever!"
I find Flower of Scotland to be an embarrassing dirge, and prefer the more uplifting Scotland the Brave, however it is quite a hard one for people to sing.
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:45 pm
by Slick
Lads, the mind games have started, don’t be drawn in!
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:57 pm
by Slick
Tichtheid wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:07 pm
It was never meant to be an anthem, it was written as a lament by a folk musician.
The ironic thing is that the tune itself cannot be played properly on the bagpipes, the chanter doesn't have the correct notes for the tune.
I'm not sure what would be better, something by Alex Harvey? Teenage Fanclub?
Apparently the not being able to play it on the bagpipes thing is nonsense.
Tichtheid wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:07 pm
It was never meant to be an anthem, it was written as a lament by a folk musician.
The ironic thing is that the tune itself cannot be played properly on the bagpipes, the chanter doesn't have the correct notes for the tune.
I'm not sure what would be better, something by Alex Harvey? Teenage Fanclub?
Apparently the not being able to play it on the bagpipes thing is nonsense.
Which song are we talking about here?
A quick youtube found both Flower of Scotland and Scotland the Brave played by the Royal Dragoon Guards.
The thing going round is that Flower of Scotland can’t be played properly, as it was written I guess, by the pipes. But I’ve been told that’s bollocks and it’s perfectly possible and it fits the scale etc
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:27 pm
by Guy Smiley
Slick wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:10 pm
The thing going round is that Flower of Scotland can’t be played properly, as it was written I guess, by the pipes. But I’ve been told that’s bollocks and it’s perfectly possible and it fits the scale etc
One of those 'traditionalist' type arguments that comes down to how it was interpreted by a bunch of pissheads at one bar.
Just for the hell of it, here's a rather gorgeous clip, while the tune itself doesn't strike me as something to stir the blood before a Test.
GogLais wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:14 pm
Would many notice?
It's sweet when they pretend the pipes are an instrument.
The arrogance
Trying to get back into it with the 6N only a week away.
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:13 pm
by Yr Alban
I don’t get the ‘dirge’ thing, I really don’t. There are plenty of non-Scots who have said it sounds amazing at MF. Certainly since the SRU actually realised that the way to do it right is to have the second verse a capella, which sounds fantastic and avoids the perennial problem of the crowd getting out of time with the music.
Yes, the lyrics aren’t all that progressive. But that could be said of most national anthems.
When Indy happens I fully expect that FoS won’t actually become the official anthem. Someone will be commissioned to write something that everyone will hate, until we all get used to it. This is what happened in Australia, where ‘Waltzing Matilda’ was sidelined in favour of ‘Advance Australia Fair’. And I’ll be OK with that, because at the end of the day it’s just a song. But there’s nothing wrong with FoS until then.
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:22 pm
by Guy Smiley
Yr Alban wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:13 pm
I don’t get the ‘dirge’ thing, I really don’t. There are plenty of non-Scots who have said it sounds amazing at MF. Certainly since the SRU actually realised that the way to do it right is to have the second verse a capella, which sounds fantastic and avoids the perennial problem of the crowd getting out of time with the music.
Yes, the lyrics aren’t all that progressive. But that could be said of most national anthems.
When Indy happens I fully expect that FoS won’t actually become the official anthem. Someone will be commissioned to write something that everyone will hate, until we all get used to it. This is what happened in Australia, where ‘Waltzing Matilda’ was sidelined in favour of ‘Advance Australia Fair’. And I’ll be OK with that, because at the end of the day it’s just a song. But there’s nothing wrong with FoS until then.
Australia voted for Advance Australia Fair over Waltzing Matilda, which was never their anthem.
Sorry, but if you're going to try and start an anthem fight you have to be armed with the right dirge.
Someone wrote lyrics to it which TBF are a bit OTT. On the other hand what Anthem lyrics aren't?
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:48 am
by Guy Smiley
Some of you could always use this...
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:39 am
by Simian
sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:27 pm
Can we just ditch anthems altogether and crack on with the game? I'd kinda miss La Marseillaise, but that's the only one I actually like to hear. The rest are just providing time for me to go for a piss or grab a drink last minute before kick off.
Apparently the not being able to play it on the bagpipes thing is nonsense.
You can play it, but one note is a semi tone sharp
Well this bloke told me this morning when I was swimming with him
I'm not going to tell that guy how to suck eggs, far from it, but from what I believe, it's not easy to play the proper notes for that song on the pipes. I played pipes years ago for a while and I never used the notes that involved different fingerings.
FOS is played in D on the pipes, which means you need a C natural for that "think" note in "think again". You can get away with the C sharp, as gogs said, most people don't notice.
The pipe scale has two sharps in it, C# and F#, from a quick Google around, you can play those notes as naturals, but there are forums where pipers are fretting over how to do it, do they soak the reed, do they cut a bit off it, do they do this or that?
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:21 am
by inactionman
sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:27 pm
Can we just ditch anthems altogether and crack on with the game? I'd kinda miss La Marseillaise, but that's the only one I actually like to hear. The rest are just providing time for me to go for a piss or grab a drink last minute before kick off.
Kudos to Telfer for voicing what's likely to be an unpopular, but worthy opinion. It does feel off for an anthem to be so anti a specific neighbour.
I'm torn on this.
Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.
Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.
sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:27 pm
Can we just ditch anthems altogether and crack on with the game? I'd kinda miss La Marseillaise, but that's the only one I actually like to hear. The rest are just providing time for me to go for a piss or grab a drink last minute before kick off.
Kudos to Telfer for voicing what's likely to be an unpopular, but worthy opinion. It does feel off for an anthem to be so anti a specific neighbour.
I'm torn on this.
Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.
Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.
I loathe GSTQ/K to the point where I forced my mind to sing "My Country tis of Thee" instead.
It's just one of those tunes that grinds my gears, like "Onward Christian Soldiers" which I was forced to sing in school.
sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:27 pm
Can we just ditch anthems altogether and crack on with the game? I'd kinda miss La Marseillaise, but that's the only one I actually like to hear. The rest are just providing time for me to go for a piss or grab a drink last minute before kick off.
Kudos to Telfer for voicing what's likely to be an unpopular, but worthy opinion. It does feel off for an anthem to be so anti a specific neighbour.
I'm torn on this.
Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.
Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.
I loathe GSTQ/K to the point where I forced my mind to sing "My Country tis of Thee" instead.
It's just one of those tunes that grinds my gears, like "Onward Christian Soldiers" which I was forced to sing in school.
Done well, GSTK is actually OK(ish). Droned by a bunch of pissed-up fat lads in a concrete bowl it is pretty dreadful.
For England, given we're the only suckers still lumbered with GSTK, Jerusalem isn't necessarily that rousing a tune/song but it is a wonderful poem. Although the word 'builded' always jars.
sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:27 pm
Can we just ditch anthems altogether and crack on with the game? I'd kinda miss La Marseillaise, but that's the only one I actually like to hear. The rest are just providing time for me to go for a piss or grab a drink last minute before kick off.
Kudos to Telfer for voicing what's likely to be an unpopular, but worthy opinion. It does feel off for an anthem to be so anti a specific neighbour.
I'm torn on this.
Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.
Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.
I love the anthems, always rush to get there before they start. Hasn’t La M got some very dodgy lyrics?
Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.
Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.
I loathe GSTQ/K to the point where I forced my mind to sing "My Country tis of Thee" instead.
It's just one of those tunes that grinds my gears, like "Onward Christian Soldiers" which I was forced to sing in school.
Done well, GSTK is actually (ish). Droned by a bunch of pissed-up fat lads in a concrete bowl it is pretty dreadful.
For England, given we're the only suckers still lumbered with GSTK, Jerusalem isn't necessarily that rousing a tune/song but it is a wonderful poem. Although the word 'builded' always jars.
GSTK is fine, reasonably simple, doesn't go on too long, very easy to belt out. The Queen's funeral was a demonstration it is at its best when prepared as a rousing hymn rather than an anthem though. I love Jerusalem.
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:26 am
by clydecloggie
Love Flower of Scotland. Singing the second verse with the Murrayfield crowd after the piper stops is proper spine a'tingle.
The folk tune has a wonderful semi-note drop that makes it stand out as a melody, it's gorgeous. Bagpipes never play it that way so I assume it really can't otherwise it would amount to just wilfully butchering the melody.
If we're talking sycophantic drivel, GSTK/Q is in a stratosphere of its own. "Long to reign over us" really? I could never force those words out of my mouth without choking on a tsunami of boak.
I loathe GSTQ/K to the point where I forced my mind to sing "My Country tis of Thee" instead.
It's just one of those tunes that grinds my gears, like "Onward Christian Soldiers" which I was forced to sing in school.
Done well, GSTK is actually (ish). Droned by a bunch of pissed-up fat lads in a concrete bowl it is pretty dreadful.
For England, given we're the only suckers still lumbered with GSTK, Jerusalem isn't necessarily that rousing a tune/song but it is a wonderful poem. Although the word 'builded' always jars.
GSTK is fine, reasonably simple, doesn't go on too long, very easy to belt out. The Queen's funeral was a demonstration it is at its best when prepared as a rousing hymn rather than an anthem though. I love Jerusalem.
Apols, posted quickly and fat-fingered - I meant to write GSTK is OK(ish). It's no La Marseillaise or Russian National Anthem tune-wise or Jerusalem in terms of sentiment, but it's OK as an anthem. The singing of it sometimes leaves a fair bit to be desired, which can turn it into a bit of a dirge.
But it should be Jerusalem.
Anyway, I'll stop making it all about us English now.
sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:27 pm
Can we just ditch anthems altogether and crack on with the game? I'd kinda miss La Marseillaise, but that's the only one I actually like to hear. The rest are just providing time for me to go for a piss or grab a drink last minute before kick off.
Kudos to Telfer for voicing what's likely to be an unpopular, but worthy opinion. It does feel off for an anthem to be so anti a specific neighbour.
I'm torn on this.
Ultimately, 6N and other Tests should be a bit special, a bit of an occasion.
Although I'm probably with you in that I've mumbled my way through so many GSTQ its feeling a bit of a chore now.
I love the anthems, always rush to get there before they start. Hasn’t La M got some very dodgy lyrics?
only if you classify "letting the furrows in the fields run with the impure blood of our enemies" as dodgy
Re: Scottish Anthem?
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:37 am
by inactionman
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:26 am
Love Flower of Scotland. Singing the second verse with the Murrayfield crowd after the piper stops is proper spine a'tingle.
The folk tune has a wonderful semi-note drop that makes it stand out as a melody, it's gorgeous. Bagpipes never play it that way so I assume it really can't otherwise it would amount to just wilfully butchering the melody.
If we're talking sycophantic drivel, GSTK/Q is in a stratosphere of its own. "Long to reign over us" really? I could never force those words out of my mouth without choking on a tsunami of boak.
That's the worst bit, although it seemed to work for Victoria and Elizabeth.
I quite like this verse :
Not in this land alone,
But be God’s mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world o’er.
Although it's ruined a bit when you acknowledge the author doubtless had Empire in mind.
