NPR

Given the state of the Welsh depression atm, I thought we should console our taff friends with our own stories.

For Ireland, I'd tend to overlook our shitting of the bed at WCs:

-in 07, we still had a good team that just didn't perform
-in 11, we probably had a worse team but we did have a lot of promising young lads in the team to mask over things
-in 15, it was probably similar to 07. We shit the bed, big time, but still had a decent team

I think 2019-2020 was our low point in the pro-age. We were great in 2018, but Schmidt got completely found out in 2019.

We didn't shit the bed at the WC in 2019, it was more watching a drunken driver go at 20mph for a mile in a straight line toward a cliff edge.

Then we had an unproven coach in Farrell come in, and the style and results didn't improve. Sexton was shit and old, the likes of Ringrose and Stockdale weren't firing, POM was gash, VDF hadn't become the world beater he would be later on yet etc.

Pretty miserable time after the highs of 2018.

2005 to 2010ish for me. Fluked a RWC final, but otherwise it was grim

Real dearth of talent coming through. Team sheets like this from Autumn 2009 were the norm.

M Cueto (Sale Sharks); M Banahan (Bath), D Hipkiss (Leicester), A Erinle (Biarritz), U Monye (Harlequins); J Wilkinson (Toulon), P Hodgson (London Irish); T Payne (Wasps), D Hartley (Northampton), D Bell (Bath), S Shaw (Wasps), S Borthwick (Saracens, capt), J Worsley (Wasps), L Moody (Leicester), J Haskell (Stade Français).

Replacements: S Thompson (Brive), D Wilson (Bath), L Deacon (Leicester), T Croft (Leicester), D Care (Harlequins), S Geraghty (Northampton), M Tait (Sale Sharks).

Yes

I think the wait for a second RWC win was painful.

Even the win was painful in 2011.

Though, we were pretty much always the top ranked team.

However, we have now plummeted to new lows. 2020- 2023 has been full of new lows. 2 new records. Test series loss, and loss to Arg. Scotland might have taken the monkey off their back.

We are now hovering around 3/4 and barely deserve that ranking.

England have a pretty obvious period of darkness after the world cup win.

Possibly because I remember it a bit better than some of the earlier years, but the 2011 world cup feels like the worst. We had actually begun to make some strides under Johnson and had some talent starting to come through, hope was beginning to build. It was dashed by the tournament where we played incredibly dull, uninspiring rugby. We were lucky to make it to the quarters, had a very favourable group that we still just barely escaped with narrow wins over Scotland and Argentina, neither of whom were particularly strong at that time.

Then there was all the off field bollocks and having to get up early to watch the dogshit rugby because it was all happening on the other side of the world.

The loss to Australia in 2015 to go out of our own world cup was the absolute pits.
The Wales loss was bad enough but we had actually played some pretty good rugby for probably 50/60 minutes. Australia we just didn't turn up for, IIRC (never watched it back) Foley ran through to score untouched in the first 10 minutes and things only got worse from there, by the time the *Aussie* scrum started absolutely manshaming us half the crowd had left and it was hard to blame them. Just a complete lack of bite and pride from a side that you felt had turned a corner after the tunnel standoff and win in Cardiff earlier that year.

I can only think of two low points really:

1. The period from 2000 until August 2015; and

2. Shortly before 6pm on 18th October 2015 until end of October 2022.

charltom wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:10 pm I can only think of two low points really:

1. The period from 2000 until August 2015; and

2. Shortly before 6pm on 18th October 2015 until end of October 2022.

charltom wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:10 pm I can only think of two low points really:

1. The period from 2000 until August 2015; and

2. Shortly before 6pm on 18th October 2015 until end of October 2022.

From Summer 2012 through to the 6 Nations 2013.

The 60-0 game in particular. Despite having other 12s in the squad, he decided to fly a player who had been on a beach for over a month, half way across the world in teh week leading up to the test and then stuck him straight into the team. You fuckers think you have it bad with Foster now, but Jesus that has to be the worst* coaching choice of the professional era.

*Or maybe playing Bergamasco at 9 tops it in fairness.

Canada?

We're now firmly at the level of (due to recent losses) Spain, Portugal, and Brazil. Chile knocked us out of World Cup contention. Though to be fair to Portugal, they pipped the US as well.

Last year, I saw some of the national lads in club play and while they certainly stood out technique-wise (passes, kicks, powerful carries among the forwards), they a) weren't that much more athletically gifted (faster, bigger) than many of the others, and b) they really didn't dominate that much with their skill and tactics.

My bias is that our provincial development systems are focused on a small group of kids they hope will turn into internationals (like Quinn Ngwati) who can contend with people who grow up in MUCH bigger, more competitive, better coached youth systems. Many of ours coast through without being challenged and and up not being good enough to challenge Championship level players.

We've had high points? must've blinked and missed it/them

Laporte and his stooges ...

Niegs wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:13 pm Canada?

We're now firmly at the level of (due to recent losses) Spain, Portugal, and Brazil. Chile knocked us out of World Cup contention. Though to be fair to Portugal, they pipped the US as well.

Last year, I saw some of the national lads in club play and while they certainly stood out technique-wise (passes, kicks, powerful carries among the forwards), they a) weren't that much more athletically gifted (faster, bigger) than many of the others, and b) they really didn't dominate that much with their skill and tactics.

My bias is that our provincial development systems are focused on a small group of kids they hope will turn into internationals (like Quinn Ngwati) who can contend with people who grow up in MUCH bigger, more competitive, better coached youth systems. Many of ours coast through without being challenged and and up not being good enough to challenge Championship level players.

Don't know if you're in/involved in rugby in BC but I know a bloke who's just moved out West who I believe will be Canadian qualified next season and would be one of the better options you'd have at 10.

Finally a thread where we can lord it over the rest.....

Blackmac wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:29 pm Finally a thread where we can lord it over the rest.....

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:08 pm The loss to Australia in 2015 to go out of our own world cup was the absolute pits.
The Wales loss was bad enough but we had actually played some pretty good rugby for probably 50/60 minutes. Australia we just didn't turn up for, IIRC (never watched it back) Foley ran through to score untouched in the first 10 minutes and things only got worse from there, by the time the *Aussie* scrum started absolutely manshaming us half the crowd had left and it was hard to blame them. Just a complete lack of bite and pride from a side that you felt had turned a corner after the tunnel standoff and win in Cardiff earlier that year.

You are mistaken, there was no 2015 tournament.

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:00 pm

Niegs wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:13 pm Canada?

We're now firmly at the level of (due to recent losses) Spain, Portugal, and Brazil. Chile knocked us out of World Cup contention. Though to be fair to Portugal, they pipped the US as well.

Last year, I saw some of the national lads in club play and while they certainly stood out technique-wise (passes, kicks, powerful carries among the forwards), they a) weren't that much more athletically gifted (faster, bigger) than many of the others, and b) they really didn't dominate that much with their skill and tactics.

My bias is that our provincial development systems are focused on a small group of kids they hope will turn into internationals (like Quinn Ngwati) who can contend with people who grow up in MUCH bigger, more competitive, better coached youth systems. Many of ours coast through without being challenged and and up not being good enough to challenge Championship level players.

Don't know if you're in/involved in rugby in BC but I know a bloke who's just moved out West who I believe will be Canadian qualified next season and would be one of the better options you'd have at 10.

I'm not so much these days, prefer the schools level than adults at the moment.

But where's he gone to? Already with a club, presumably?

Blackmac wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:29 pm Finally a thread where we can lord it over the rest.....

England 50 - Ireland 18
Twickenham 2000
I was there.

Strauli 2002-03 including Kamp Staaldraad

Any interview with Divvy

76-0 in Australia which was part of the highly annoying Christian Bok period.

Crouch-touch-pause-engage

I remember seeing something like Ire 36 - Wal 10 in an Irish bar in Seville in the early 2000s. And Seville was cold and grey.

David Bortolussi's missed pen against Scotland in 2007

We yo-yo between highs and lows. I'll ignore the early years because we were only establishing ourselves but 06/07 where we beat Aus and SA, thrashed England, were a try away from a GS to nearly losing to Georgia and being knocked out of the WC at the pool stage was probably the biggest. Honourable mentions for the Welsh and Argentina QFs. The next big low mirrored 06/07. 2018: GS, series win in Aus, beat NZ in November to be followed up by a car crash of a year.

I fully expect it to happen again soon. Maybe as early as next week with Scotland beating us and then England finding some form (as payback for a couple of times we'd been shite only to find form and beat them well) but if not then then the WC.

Boiled down to a single moment.

While that moment in 2007 hurt, it wasn't our low point. It has to be when Foster was appointed coach.

Margin__Walker wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:16 pm 2005 to 2010ish for me. Fluked a RWC final, but otherwise it was grim

Real dearth of talent coming through. Team sheets like this from Autumn 2009 were the norm.

M Cueto (Sale Sharks); M Banahan (Bath), D Hipkiss (Leicester), A Erinle (Biarritz), U Monye (Harlequins); J Wilkinson (Toulon), P Hodgson (London Irish); T Payne (Wasps), D Hartley (Northampton), D Bell (Bath), S Shaw (Wasps), S Borthwick (Saracens, capt), J Worsley (Wasps), L Moody (Leicester), J Haskell (Stade Français).

Replacements: S Thompson (Brive), D Wilson (Bath), L Deacon (Leicester), T Croft (Leicester), D Care (Harlequins), S Geraghty (Northampton), M Tait (Sale Sharks).

Was that one of the Argentina Tests?

Possibly the one I had the misfortune to attend, where some marketing genius decided that we should hold up placards prior to the match to form a giant Nike symbol. Said placards were swiftly repurposed into paper aeroplanes by the bored crowd.

That was against the All Blacks

One with Erinle, Bell and Payne all starting seemed to best fit the bill.

Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:08 pm The loss to Australia in 2015 to go out of our own world cup was the absolute pits.
The Wales loss was bad enough but we had actually played some pretty good rugby for probably 50/60 minutes.

That was an appalling game. We were in the lead over a Wales side that was either just bad or struggling itself and then made worse by injuries. We had plenty of ball but a 10 with no idea he was allowed to have ideas, not helped that his centres were on his wavelength in attack.

You could probably have more fun watching a child get sick and vomit all over some new furniture and/or carpet you'd just bought

Jesus Christ, where do you even start?

I might just start a thread of high points instead. It’ll be a lot quicker.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:45 pm I can't think of any real low points per se though life changing was match that never was. That last minute try changed me as a human being. Since then I am far more sanguine than I was before. The highs probably not quite as high but the lows nowhere near as low. I am the stoic rugby fan

Same. Moments rather than passages of time. Just a few, but before I learned to enjoy the experience:

England class of 03 putting us firmly back in our hole in the ground en route to the top. A great championship run by our standards, decider at home, 01 in near memory, the pomp, noise and controversy and we didn't belong on the same field.

Clerc crossing to take away a claw hammer fightback in Croke Park 2007 and ultimately the slam.

Wales completely outwitting our arguably stronger but unidirectional squad with ROG as a very untimely comfort blanket in 11. 6am viewing and a long flat day to come.

The game that never was: also the last time I took things so seriously. Elation, disbelief, realisation, gutting. Late Sunday afternoon with little realistic chance of getting shitfaced afterwards and spare a thought to all the old lads in the crowd who might not live to see the day.

Laughed my ass off all the way through Chicago by contrast, no nerves at all - by then it was absolutely going to happen soon. Beers on, fear out the window. Just learned to appreciate the day that was.

France under Saint-Andre. Second ever loss in a world cup quarter final, worst score ever. 63-13.

2022, Ryan Jones gets diagnosed with Early Onset Senile Dementia, and the worst case the specialist has ever seen, from playing rugby.

For me the game just ended then.

It just isn't for me anymore.

How can you care when we this shit is happening?

lemonhead wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:56 pm
Same. Moments rather than passages of time. Just a few, but before I learned to enjoy the experience:

...

Clerc crossing to take away a claw hammer fightback in Croke Park 2007 and ultimately the slam.

Yep, was at that with my niece, & she started crying when he scored, & knew exactly how she felt.

I was glad I wasn't at that last minute killer against the ABs, because I'd probably have stepped in front of a train later .... and missed

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:22 pm

lemonhead wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:56 pm
Same. Moments rather than passages of time. Just a few, but before I learned to enjoy the experience:

...

Clerc crossing to take away a claw hammer fightback in Croke Park 2007 and ultimately the slam.

Yep, was at that with my niece, & she started crying when he scored, & knew exactly how she felt.

I was glad I wasn't at that last minute killer against the ABs, because I'd probably have stepped in front of a train later .... and missed

Witnessed the Clerc try in the stadium myself alright. Between that and the WC, my will to see Ireland live took a severe battering. Either be shit and we can enjoy the piss up (90s) or win. This getting our hopes up malarkey was very discommoding.

Yr Alban wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:37 pm Jesus Christ, where do you even start?

I might just start a thread of high points instead. It’ll be a lot quicker.

Yeah, since the limits are since 2000, that first ever Six Nations tournament got off to a great start for us - reigning 5N Champions Scotland lose to new boys Italy, then lose our next three matches before beating England and denying them a Grand Slam, which was some consolation at least.

Enzedder wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:24 pm Boiled down to a single moment.

While that moment in 2007 hurt, it wasn't our low point. It has to be when Foster was appointed coach.

Yep.

Sandstorm wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:11 pm Strauli 2002-03 including Kamp Staaldraad

Any interview with Divvy

76-0 in Australia which was part of the highly annoying Christian Bok period.

Crouch-touch-pause-engage

Allister Coetzee 2016–18 END OF FOKON THREAD

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 7:25 am

Yr Alban wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:37 pm Jesus Christ, where do you even start?

I might just start a thread of high points instead. It’ll be a lot quicker.

Yeah, since the limits are since 2000, that first ever Six Nations tournament got off to a great start for us - reigning 5N Champions Scotland lose to new boys Italy, then lose our next three matches before beating England and denying them a Grand Slam, which was some consolation at least.

It still rankles that the 6N schedulers gave us Italy in Rome on day 1 of the new format. Italy were always going to be massively up for it.

average joe wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:26 am

Sandstorm wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:11 pm Strauli 2002-03 including Kamp Staaldraad

Any interview with Divvy

76-0 in Australia which was part of the highly annoying Christian Bok period.

Crouch-touch-pause-engage

Allister Coetzee 2016–18 END OF FOKON THREAD

You're closing the thread (for Saffas) without even mentioning THAT game against the Land of the Rising Sun?

For England it's the 2015 RWC, nothing really gets close. Sure, the Andy Robinson days were dark but getting knocked out of a RWC played in England at the group stage is simply unforgivable. All the crap about Burgess as well just compounded the farce.