NPR

Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... -says//url]

Welsh Rugby. Viable, affordable, realistic says some guy down the pub.

PCPhil wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:48 pm Welsh Rugby. Viable, affordable, realistic says some guy down the pub.

We are not just about rugby.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:46 pm Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... says//[url]

Well, you should go for it then !!

Sorry link went weird.. here you go..

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... port-says/

Living in England, my vote for the order in which the Union should break up is:

1. N Ireland
2. Scotland
3. Daylight
4. Wales

I can't say I feel much emotional tie such that NI, Scotland or Wales need/must/should remain part of the UK. I do however wonder where it ends? Cornwall might want to go, perhaps some wealthier area of the South, Lincolnshire because gammon is a thing, Yorkshire to diverge from Lancashire.... And then maybe at some point in the future it reassembles, and then down the line again fragments, providing another job opportunity for management consultants to sagely advise stop doing what you're doing now and do what you used to do on loop

What are the compelling reasons that would make life better in an in an independent Wales? Apart from generally hating the English and the Tories, but at least they give you a whack of money that you'd probably be fucked without.

At least Scotland has oil, and NI can get Dublin to pay for their bills. Wales would be up shit creek.

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:48 pm What are the compelling reasons that would make life better in an in an independent Wales? Apart from generally hating the English and the Tories, but at least they give you a whack of money that you'd probably be fucked without.

At least Scotland has oil, and NI can get Dublin to pay for their bills. Wales would be up shit creek.

Nothing a bit of Welsh TV money can't sort.

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:48 pm What are the compelling reasons that would make life better in an in an independent Wales? Apart from generally hating the English and the Tories, but at least they give you a whack of money that you'd probably be fucked without.

At least Scotland has oil, and NI can get Dublin to pay for their bills. Wales would be up shit creek.

Well the reason Dublin could feasibly be able to pay those bills is because we did tell those Tory cunts to fuck off. Long and fucking painful road though between then and now!

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:48 pm What are the compelling reasons that would make life better in an in an independent Wales? Apart from generally hating the English and the Tories, but at least they give you a whack of money that you'd probably be fucked without.

At least Scotland has oil, and NI can get Dublin to pay for their bills. Wales would be up shit creek.

Undercut everybody on corporation tax and offer the Chinese a base at Milford Haven.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:41 pm I can't say I feel much emotional tie such that NI, Scotland or Wales need/must/should remain part of the UK. I do however wonder where it ends? Cornwall might want to go, perhaps some wealthier area of the South, Lincolnshire because gammon is a thing, Yorkshire to diverge from Lancashire.... And then maybe at some point in the future it reassembles, and then down the line again fragments, providing another job opportunity for management consultants to sagely advise stop doing what you're doing now and do what you used to do on loop

Before BREXIT messed it up, I advocated for a federal Britain. To me, the day of the monolithic medium sized nation is passing. The needs for them as trade, defence etc entities is no longer what it was due to supra national entities such as NATO, the EEC etc.

The current structure does not work for the English regions any more than Scotland. A federal state wit proper power devloved to the states allows local decisions to be made locally, withint the framework of a national Govt, within the framework of the EEC.

Despite BREXIT, I still think it is viable.

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:17 pm

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:48 pm What are the compelling reasons that would make life better in an in an independent Wales? Apart from generally hating the English and the Tories, but at least they give you a whack of money that you'd probably be fucked without.

At least Scotland has oil, and NI can get Dublin to pay for their bills. Wales would be up shit creek.

Nothing a bit of Welsh TV money can't sort.

Yeah but that money is needed to pay for the Irish provinces' strength in the Pro14 and Europe.

I mean I know there amount of Welsh TV money is SUBSTANTIAL, but that money is needed to pay for the €7 lattes for Leinster lads, not for paying for the armies of unemployed lads in Newport and Bridgend to get their tan sorted for the weekend, or a new tattoo.

weegie01 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:30 am
Before BREXIT messed it up, I advocated for a federal Britain. To me, the day of the monolithic medium sized nation is passing. The needs for them as trade, defence etc entities is no longer what it was due to supra national entities such as NATO, the EEC etc.

The current structure does not work for the English regions any more than Scotland. A federal state wit proper power devloved to the states allows local decisions to be made locally, withint the framework of a national Govt, within the framework of the EEC.

Despite BREXIT, I still think it is viable.

To which one might observe the days of the federal regions would soon be doomed. Why should the Midlands run the whole, split it east and west, at which point Birmingham decries the inclusion of the far eastern flung Coventry, set us free of their impeding our destiny, to which the Black Country cry free us from the tyranny of Birmingham, to which Tipton cries free us of the cruel overreach of the Black Country we demand our own pie factories no matter how insane.

Which is all to say wherever you put the line you can object either way. And arguably the line isn't the issue

weegie01 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:30 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:41 pm I can't say I feel much emotional tie such that NI, Scotland or Wales need/must/should remain part of the UK. I do however wonder where it ends? Cornwall might want to go, perhaps some wealthier area of the South, Lincolnshire because gammon is a thing, Yorkshire to diverge from Lancashire.... And then maybe at some point in the future it reassembles, and then down the line again fragments, providing another job opportunity for management consultants to sagely advise stop doing what you're doing now and do what you used to do on loop

Before BREXIT messed it up, I advocated for a federal Britain. To me, the day of the monolithic medium sized nation is passing. The needs for them as trade, defence etc entities is no longer what it was due to supra national entities such as NATO, the EEC etc.

The current structure does not work for the English regions any more than Scotland. A federal state wit proper power devloved to the states allows local decisions to be made locally, withint the framework of a national Govt, within the framework of the EEC.

Despite BREXIT, I still think it is viable.

I'm interested in the concept of a Federal UK, mainly to check the huge gravitational pull of London, but also to give those in relative backwaters more input and control over local affairs.

I'm not sure the need for defence at a UK level has entirely gone away, however, and reliance upon NATO puts us at the mercy of people like Trump - I know it's not us or any current NATO member doing the fighting, but God alone knows what would be happening in Ukraine now if Trump got a second term, or - perhaps more pertinently - what would happen in Eastern Europe if Putin were suitably emboldened.

weegie01 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:30 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:41 pm I can't say I feel much emotional tie such that NI, Scotland or Wales need/must/should remain part of the UK. I do however wonder where it ends? Cornwall might want to go, perhaps some wealthier area of the South, Lincolnshire because gammon is a thing, Yorkshire to diverge from Lancashire.... And then maybe at some point in the future it reassembles, and then down the line again fragments, providing another job opportunity for management consultants to sagely advise stop doing what you're doing now and do what you used to do on loop

Before BREXIT messed it up, I advocated for a federal Britain. To me, the day of the monolithic medium sized nation is passing. The needs for them as trade, defence etc entities is no longer what it was due to supra national entities such as NATO, the EEC etc.

The current structure does not work for the English regions any more than Scotland. A federal state wit proper power devloved to the states allows local decisions to be made locally, withint the framework of a national Govt, within the framework of the EEC.

Despite BREXIT, I still think it is viable.

I think a Federalist State is the best option with devolvement like Manchester to the English regions.
The Second Chamber needs to be an elected one and not necessarily in England.

I always find it interesting that when federalism in the UK is dismissed, it's generally and firstly because of England's internal problems. And that before we even get to the unspoken problem England has with notional equality between the UK's constituent parts.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:46 pm Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... -says//url]

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:46 pm Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... -says//url]

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

If you'd rubbished the National as the source you'd have had the full bingo card

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:03 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:46 pm Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... -says//url]

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

If you'd rubbished the National as the source you'd have had the full bingo card

The National is not the source.

Are you enjoying the SNP hustings so far? I thought Kate Forbes made some good points.

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:08 am

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:03 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

If you'd rubbished the National as the source you'd have had the full bingo card

The National is not the source.

Are you enjoying the SNP hustings so far? I thought Kate Forbes made some good points.

If you'd rubbished the National as the source of the story on the report ...etc


meh, I'm not too bothered about the SNP hustings as I've never supported the party.

The National is pure shite.

There ya go - fill in that two square bingo card.

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:46 pm Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... -says//url]

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

Ok I don’t know the mechanics of it although I do realise there isn’t a big HMG savings account called “Pensions”. However, would it not be the case that Welsh people who have paid taxes to Westminster would have some (legal?) entitlement to a pension?

GogLais wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:46 pm Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... -says//url]

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

Ok I don’t know the mechanics of it although I do realise there isn’t a big HMG savings account called “Pensions”. However, would it not be the case that Welsh people who have paid taxes to Westminster would have some (legal?) entitlement to a pension?

I'm sure that would be something that some incompetent will remember at the last moment during the negotiations and it'll create another delay.........

The last moment?

They might in the first instance care to disagree about continutaor vs succcesor nation state. But very shortly after that they're moving along to assets, liabilities and institutions. One might contend something could be missed, but not pensions

GogLais wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:46 pm Soooo..we are not too poor, small, and inferior after all??



[url]https://www.thenational.scot/news/23174 ... -says//url]

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

Ok I don’t know the mechanics of it although I do realise there isn’t a big HMG savings account called “Pensions”. However, would it not be the case that Welsh people who have paid taxes to Westminster would have some (legal?) entitlement to a pension?

In effect current tax payers in Wales pay for current pensions in Wales (as far as they can) - that would also be the case after Independence. Presumably the legislation that enabled secession would simply hand over any liability to the new government (and Parliament can change Pensions as it likes through legislation - there no legal constraint- see the WASPI women).

Federal UK doesn't work with the Royal Family

Good luck with that

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:43 pm

GogLais wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

This kind of thing often comes up regarding Scotland...So I made a bet with myself that this 'report' would involve people in England paying for pensions in Wales and other magic tricks to suddenly free up billions....was not disappointed.

Ok I don’t know the mechanics of it although I do realise there isn’t a big HMG savings account called “Pensions”. However, would it not be the case that Welsh people who have paid taxes to Westminster would have some (legal?) entitlement to a pension?

In effect current tax payers in Wales pay for current pensions in Wales (as far as they can) - that would also be the case after Independence. Presumably the legislation that enabled secession would simply hand over any liability to the new government (and Parliament can change Pensions as it likes through legislation - there no legal constraint- see the WASPI women).

Any idea what would happen with state occupational pensions?

mat the expat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:39 am Federal UK doesn't work with the Royal Family

Good luck with that

Not sure why not. In fact a lot to be said for a non-political head of state in that situation.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:51 pm

PCPhil wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:48 pm Welsh Rugby. Viable, affordable, realistic says some guy down the pub.

We are not just about rugby.

No, but the position is the same. Take away central UK funding and Wales is f**ked. No way is it viable. That ship sailed with the demise of the mines.