NPR

Interesting article about how screwed up the Welsh Valleys are , how unlike the North of England (which it is often compared to)but unlike the North's wide open spaces (where warehouses can be easily built) and easily accessible transport links.
The Valleys are effectively so remote and shut off and boxed in ( you cannot travel under mountains, you have to go all the way up and all the way down to get to the next valley) geographically, and where the people greatly out number the jobs, which are low paid and shit and not survivable without foodbanks.
Areas of Wales may as well be on the dark side of the moon, so removed from British and even Welsh society they are.

Full article here
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... sh-valleys


Extract..
Driving up two Rhondda valleys, it is hard to believe that not so long ago it was part of one of the biggest coal-producing areas in the world. The terrace houses built for the men who worked the pits are still there, but of the mines themselves nothing remains. Nature has reclaimed the spoil tips. The scars of industrialisation are hard to spot.

But appearances can be deceptive. The human scarring from deindustrialisation has been deep and long-lasting. The Welsh valleys stretching north from Cardiff have low levels of employment and high levels of deprivation. Income per head is among the lowest in the UK and low pay is endemic.

Attempts to level up the valleys are nothing new. The first regeneration plan for south Wales dates back to the 1930s, a time when production of the Rhondda’s high-quality coal was already in decline. Just south of Pontypridd is the Treforest industrial estate, a legacy of interwar regional policy. Before he became a megastar, Tom Jones was an apprentice glove-cutter in one of its factories.

In the past, the geography of the area made levelling up even more of a challenge than elsewhere. In South Yorkshire, for example, plenty of flat land and proximity to motorways has led to a boom in distribution and warehousing jobs. The valleys, by contrast, are steep-sided and – especially the farther north you go from Cardiff – remote.

Calvin Jones in a plaid shirt leaning on a table on a pedestrianised shopping street and looking at the camera
Prof Calvin Jones: ‘The Welsh government doesn’t control the economic levers. Nobody in these global corporations cares about Wales’. Photograph: Adrian Sherratt/The Observer
“If you think of the UK regions in terms of football’s Premiership,” says Calvin Jones, economics professor at Cardiff University, “the same three regions – Northern Ireland, the north-east of England and Wales – have been in the bottom three for the past 40 years.”

The problems have long been recognised. West Wales and the Valleys was one of the two regions of the UK singled out for special financial assistance by Brussels, and the issue arises of what happens to funding now that the UK has left the EU. The Welsh government says it is being short-changed and would be receiving more funding had Brexit never happened. The UK government says it is fully replacing EU funding to the regions.

It is not just the amount of funding that is at issue, but the way it is allocated. Meirion Thomas, the Wales director of the Industrial Communities Alliance, an umbrella body for local authorities in old manufacturing and mining heartlands, says London’s insistence on competitive bidding for funds is a mistake.

But what about the hundreds of tattoo parlours dotted around the Welsh countryside?

No capitalism = no roided and tattoo'd up Welsh chavs spending their dole money on Maori tattoos.

You need to carefully think about the cultural ramifications of this type of policy before giving it serious consideration.

Cross-border raiding? Last time I visited Welsh Marches castles, they didn't look very defendable.

Build dams, create jobs. Flood the Valleys and make electricity. Simple.

Wales should just give up?

I agree.

Basically the frightening thing that happened after de-industrialisation, is all the single, childless men were thrown on the scrap heap, and dehumanised and abused.
The extremely potent and powerful right wing press, told everyone that Steelworkers, Miners etc were lazy, and privatisation and mass redundancy and unemployment was deserved, and of course not just a brutal, thatcherite, Milton friedman tool to lower inflation to make the pound more competitive on the money markets, so the real lazy, gambling cunts in the city of London could trade it.

If you had kids and a family, you basically had an easy ride as all the jobs were reserved for you.

Single men were just expected to sign on for life. You had like a 1% chance of having a job up here, and were expected to just fuck off and die.
Even if you managed to hold onto your job, the resentment at you in work from people there was stark.
Can you imagine being kept (as a single man) whilst a guy with three kids was let go?
You were expected to take voluntary redundancy just out of human decency. Physical violence and abuse would be your workmate if you didn't (I learned this early on).
Once out, there was no thank you, no anything. No working class hero you..
Just the starkness and brutality of unemployment.
Just fuck off and die.
When I say most of my (single) schoolfriends died of hopelessness and diseases of despair before they were 30..I am not kidding.. they did.
The scrapheap isn't very fucking comfy, when your head goes down.

My new book..brutal lessons from de-industrialisation will soon be available in all good bookshops.

Single men with a work ethic got off their arse, moved if necessary and got a job. Only wankers “signed on for life” in the Valleys.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:29 am

My new book..brutal lessons from de-industrialisation will soon be available in all good bookshops.

Looking forward to it

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:15 am Single men with a work ethic got off their arse, moved if necessary and got a job. Only wankers “signed on for life” in the Valleys.

You need to be a human to wank.
The boyos from the Valleys were dehumanised by de-industrialisation. Too destitute to wank.

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:18 am

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:15 am Single men with a work ethic got off their arse, moved if necessary and got a job. Only wankers “signed on for life” in the Valleys.

You need to be a human to wank.
The boyos from the Valleys were dehumanised by de-industrialisation. Too destitute to wank.

You know that filum Serenity? And the scene where the people lay down and died through lack of Life force?
That was a tiny-veiled allegory for Wales.

If someone comes up with a better plan than capitalism I'm all for it. But I'd want it to be better, not just different for the sake of claiming do something

So far capitalism as with democracy is the worst idea ever, except for the all the others

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:05 am If someone comes up with a better plan than capitalism I'm all for it. But I'd want it to be better, not just different for the sake of claiming do something

So far capitalism as with democracy is the worst idea ever, except for the all the others

As a lot of idiots here in Canada (following shit coming out of the US) now think ‘socialism’ = communism, I can’t see the masses voting for positive change in my lifetime. There’s enough gaslit or single issue conservatives here to keep us working stiffs down for a while yet. Maybe Europe (and UK, but I doubt it) is a different beast?

I also don’t hear anything in tech news about replicators coming to rock the system.

Uncle fester wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:29 pm

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:18 am

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:15 am Single men with a work ethic got off their arse, moved if necessary and got a job. Only wankers “signed on for life” in the Valleys.

You need to be a human to wank.
The boyos from the Valleys were dehumanised by de-industrialisation. Too destitute to wank.

lack of Life force

The Saeson stole it.

Wales should just give up Rugby and look for something else.

fixed

Niegs wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:39 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:05 am If someone comes up with a better plan than capitalism I'm all for it. But I'd want it to be better, not just different for the sake of claiming do something

So far capitalism as with democracy is the worst idea ever, except for the all the others

As a lot of idiots here in Canada (following shit coming out of the US) now think ‘socialism’ = communism, I can’t see the masses voting for positive change in my lifetime. There’s enough gaslit or single issue conservatives here to keep us working stiffs down for a while yet. Maybe Europe (and UK, but I doubt it) is a different beast?

I also don’t hear anything in tech news about replicators coming to rock the system.

I don't think there's any serious support for socialism or communism anywhere really. Which on balance is a good thing in my estimation

When I was a freshly made ex steelworker, and newly unemployed kid, they said " hey you need qualifications they are a bit light" (working since I ws sixteen) so off I went to get lots of qualifications, Btecs, HNC/Ds was even accepted to study at post grad level.

Then they said "hey you have lots of qualifications (more than me infact) now you need to get experience.. so off I went and got loads of experience, volunteering for various agencies and hospitals..doing lots of brilliant things in the community.got dozens of glowing references..

Then they said hey you have lots of experience and qualifications (more than me in fact) but we just decided we realiy have nothing..you are not " entitled" to a job (even though you listened to our bullshit for the last 8 years) .and we are entitled to call you a scrounging cunt, and so we should stress you out, burn you out by getting you to apply for jobs constantly, and stress you out so much we will give you nightmares and a fucking heart attack..and then when you recover from that a year later we will stress you out again so much, your GP will put you back on the sick to stop us giving you another one.

They have me doing employability courses for the next week (still have employability certificates from the last employability courses someone needed funding and mugs for).., because apparently no one will employ someone with a untreated fucked up back who suffers from untreated ptsd from a accident..,so instead of treating me for that, they reckon I need another employability certificate, and employers will finally be won over.

Yay.

Think my single schoolfriends had the right idea.

Everyone should give up capitalism. It benefits some tiny % of humans and has f***ed the planet.

It is still possible to buy a house in Merthyr for £100,000-£150,000

Plenty of stock even in places like Swansea at that mark so not just the Valleys.

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:15 am Single men with a work ethic got off their arse, moved if necessary and got a job. Only wankers “signed on for life” in the Valleys.

Not sure if serious but this is impossible on any scale. As for lazy, given that Britain has the worst productivity in the G7 by a country mile, one might opine they are all lazy c**ts?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:32 am

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:15 am Single men with a work ethic got off their arse, moved if necessary and got a job. Only wankers “signed on for life” in the Valleys.

Not sure if serious but this is impossible on any scale. As for lazy, given that Britain has the worst productivity in the G7 by a country mile, one might opine they are all lazy c**ts?

Shameful smearing of the (non) working class.

Pyramid Schemes are illegal. They work on the assumption (or lie) that the pyramid scheme and the system is perfect, it is you that is the wrong un, even though they need people to fail and earn nothing from it.

Litterally you go to your Pyramid Scheme meeting and you get told off for being ripped off by them.., told off for not trying hard enough, for being lazy, for being stupid, miserable and ugly. The system is perfect. You must just believe in it. It is a test of your character....though we need like 99% of you to be fucking losers.

They get seriously brutal at the end there, before they disappear and are off to tell off the next schmucks, that fall for their perfect system,


The ironic thing is this Capitalist Pyramid Scheme didn't even fucking come here... they didn't even try it..refused to, that would take money and investment..planning..more plannihg and thought went into the free for all, "lets see if anarchy will make them capitalists"..post economic strategy of Iraq..
All the schmucks, and meeting goers and capitalist , angry pyramid scheme religionist, brainwashed fanatics and perfect world conservatives . are finger jabbing at you from fucking miles away. Other fucking countries.
If they were here, single, and over thirty they would probably be dead.
Depression has a 50% mortality rate here.

Line6 HXFX wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:25 am Pyramid Schemes are illegal. They work on the assumption (or lie) that the pyramid scheme and the system is perfect, it is you that is the wrong un, even though they need people to fail and earn nothing from it.

Litterally you go to your Pyramid Scheme meeting and you get told off for being ripped off by them.., told off for not trying hard enough, for being lazy, for being stupid, miserable and ugly. The system is perfect. You must just believe in it. It is a test of your character....though we need like 99% of you to be fucking losers.

They get seriously brutal at the end there, before they disappear and are off to tell off the next schmucks, that fall for their perfect system,


The ironic thing is this Capitalist Pyramid Scheme didn't even fucking come here... they didn't even try it..refused to, that would take money and investment..planning..more plannihg and thought went into the free for all, "lets see if anarchy will make them capitalists"..post economic strategy of Iraq..
All the schmucks, and meeting goers and capitalist , angry pyramid scheme religionist, brainwashed fanatics and perfect world conservatives . are finger jabbing at you from fucking miles away. Other fucking countries.
If they were here, single, and over thirty they would probably be dead.
Depression has a 50% mortality rate here.

Have you been selling that Avon shite?

Jim Lahey wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:05 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:25 am Pyramid Schemes are illegal. They work on the assumption (or lie) that the pyramid scheme and the system is perfect, it is you that is the wrong un, even though they need people to fail and earn nothing from it.

Litterally you go to your Pyramid Scheme meeting and you get told off for being ripped off by them.., told off for not trying hard enough, for being lazy, for being stupid, miserable and ugly. The system is perfect. You must just believe in it. It is a test of your character....though we need like 99% of you to be fucking losers.

They get seriously brutal at the end there, before they disappear and are off to tell off the next schmucks, that fall for their perfect system,


The ironic thing is this Capitalist Pyramid Scheme didn't even fucking come here... they didn't even try it..refused to, that would take money and investment..planning..more plannihg and thought went into the free for all, "lets see if anarchy will make them capitalists"..post economic strategy of Iraq..
All the schmucks, and meeting goers and capitalist , angry pyramid scheme religionist, brainwashed fanatics and perfect world conservatives . are finger jabbing at you from fucking miles away. Other fucking countries.
If they were here, single, and over thirty they would probably be dead.
Depression has a 50% mortality rate here.

Have you been selling that Avon shite?

Somehow can’t see The Welsh Singing Detective being a good salesman for skin creams !

Refry. This is top WUM ranting, good work fella.

You still haven’t really explained why don’t people move to find work , when their village sole raison d’etre has gone. You can rant about Thatcher all you want , we both know she wasn’t the main cause of steel and coal closures in wales.

We had a pot noodle factory in Crumin, am sure you could have got a job there on quality control same as like you did on the mill.

Just hand the whole country over to Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney and let them build it up.

They took Wrexham - which looks like a bang average town - and turned it into a global phenomenon....while staying personable and genuinely likeable.

Solved.

Thor Sedan wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:35 pm Just hand the whole country over to Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney and let them build it up.

They took Wrexham - which looks like a bang average town - and turned it into a global phenomenon....while staying personable and genuinely likeable.

Solved.

I reckon it'd take a bit longer than 4 seasons to get Wales into the big leagues.

Need to cull these armies of dehumanised men first, then bring in people prepared to do some work instead of sponging off the government, I reckon.

Yeeb wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:42 pm Refry. This is top WUM ranting, good work fella.

You still haven’t really explained why don’t people move to find work , when their village sole raison d’etre has gone. You can rant about Thatcher all you want , we both know she wasn’t the main cause of steel and coal closures in wales.

We had a pot noodle factory in Crumin, am sure you could have got a job there on quality control same as like you did on the mill.

Tbh you are talking shit from a little Englander six form common room stand point.
Refry hasn't ranted about Thatcher at all in these post he right talked about Thatcherite Milton F child like economic positionS.
Remember in later Friedman recanted and agreed his methods were repressive and counter productive.
His experiment with the Chicago Boys in Chile were positively murderous.

Thatcher and her friend Pinochet failed massively

Employability certificate sorted.
I am now Employable as fuck again.


I now know how to do a C.V. and understand that you have to ring in if you feel ill.
I got to 53 without knowing this.
When I said basically " have you got anything less patronising for us folks with active brains" I was told ".oh you would be surprised the amount of people who don't know this".
I really really fucking would be.

Turns out Employability certificates don't cure two herniated discs, and disc degeneration, and I have to phone in sick today after sitting there for 3 hours, in agony being patronised.

Luckily I did a Employability course, otherwise I wouldn't have.

This is what getting the sick to work looks like, incase you are wondering.

The power of magical thinking compels you..
The power of magical thinking compels you.
The power of magical thinking compels you.
The power of magical thinking compels you.

...All together now.

I'm sure that I speak for everyone on the bored, that we are all standing in solidarity with you and your fight against the Dole Office Stasi.

C69 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:21 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:42 pm Refry. This is top WUM ranting, good work fella.

You still haven’t really explained why don’t people move to find work , when their village sole raison d’etre has gone. You can rant about Thatcher all you want , we both know she wasn’t the main cause of steel and coal closures in wales.

We had a pot noodle factory in Crumin, am sure you could have got a job there on quality control same as like you did on the mill.

Tbh you are talking shit from a little Englander six form common room stand point.
Refry hasn't ranted about Thatcher at all in these post he right talked about Thatcherite Milton F child like economic positionS.
Remember in later Friedman recanted and agreed his methods were repressive and counter productive.
His experiment with the Chicago Boys in Chile were positively murderous.

Thatcher and her friend Pinochet failed massively

So mentioning Thatcherite isn’t going on about thatcher at all ? Okeeyyyyyy….

Tbh no matter where in the world , you have to question the usefulness of someone staying someplace shit when there are opportunities nearby. An ancestor of mine left Neath for Birmingham for better chance of work and life for his family - this was in about 1880….
Milton & Maggie for all their many sins, had a more realistic economic attitude to reality than someone ekeing by on state handouts until he’s 53

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:38 am Employability certificate sorted.
I am now Employable as fuck again.


I now know how to do a C.V. and understand that you have to ring in if you feel ill.
I got to 53 without knowing this.
When I said basically " have you got anything less patronising for us folks with active brains" I was told ".oh you would be surprised the amount of people who don't know this".
I really really fucking would be.

Turns out Employability certificates don't cure two herniated discs, and disc degeneration, and I have to phone in sick today after sitting there for 3 hours, in agony being patronised.

Luckily I did a Employability course, otherwise I wouldn't have.

This is what getting the sick to work looks like, incase you are wondering.

The power of magical thinking compels you..
The power of magical thinking compels you.
The power of magical thinking compels you.
The power of magical thinking compels you.

...All together now.

Did you pass the course ?

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:45 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:38 am Employability certificate sorted.
I am now Employable as fuck again.


I now know how to do a C.V. and understand that you have to ring in if you feel ill.
I got to 53 without knowing this.
When I said basically " have you got anything less patronising for us folks with active brains" I was told ".oh you would be surprised the amount of people who don't know this".
I really really fucking would be.

Turns out Employability certificates don't cure two herniated discs, and disc degeneration, and I have to phone in sick today after sitting there for 3 hours, in agony being patronised.

Luckily I did a Employability course, otherwise I wouldn't have.

This is what getting the sick to work looks like, incase you are wondering.

The power of magical thinking compels you..
The power of magical thinking compels you.
The power of magical thinking compels you.
The power of magical thinking compels you.

...All together now.

Did you pass the course ?

Doubt it.
Sure he called in sick after 3 hours the previous day.
He needs to take his learnings and focus on his workons.

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:23 am I'm sure that I speak for everyone on the bored, that we are all standing in solidarity with you and your fight against the Dole Office Stasi.

We do know that these systems are dehumanising and actually not even cost effective. We also know that we aren't really meritocracy which is what a lot of this is based on. How many chances do the likes of Johnson get compared to normal people?

petej wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:32 am

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:23 am I'm sure that I speak for everyone on the bored, that we are all standing in solidarity with you and your fight against the Dole Office Stasi.

We do know that these systems are dehumanising and actually not even cost effective. We also know that we aren't really meritocracy which is what a lot of this is based on. How many chances do the likes of Johnson get compared to normal people?

I think most people would be all ears for an alternative that improves the standard of living for all, while taking into account the immovable human conditions of self-interest and incentivisation.

I haven't heard a viable option as of yet. The Scandnavians have a decent set up tbf, but did they have to squeeze a landed class that have had wealth and power for 5+ centuries? (I genuinely don't know anything about Scandanavian history, apart from the Vikings raping and pillaging). The French can get away with their system as the wealthy elites can suffer the tax burden of paying for a good benefits system as the country has the Riviera and ski resorts, as well as generally good standard of living. And they managed to chop a load of rich peoples' heads off a couple of hundred years ago, creating a clean break (excuse the pun) with historic wealth. I don't think it would work in the UK.

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:43 am

C69 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:21 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:42 pm Refry. This is top WUM ranting, good work fella.

You still haven’t really explained why don’t people move to find work , when their village sole raison d’etre has gone. You can rant about Thatcher all you want , we both know she wasn’t the main cause of steel and coal closures in wales.

We had a pot noodle factory in Crumin, am sure you could have got a job there on quality control same as like you did on the mill.

Tbh you are talking shit from a little Englander six form common room stand point.
Refry hasn't ranted about Thatcher at all in these post he right talked about Thatcherite Milton F child like economic positionS.
Remember in later Friedman recanted and agreed his methods were repressive and counter productive.
His experiment with the Chicago Boys in Chile were positively murderous.

Thatcher and her friend Pinochet failed massively

An ancestor of mine left Neath for Birmingham for better chance of work and life for his family - this was in about 1880….

Probably house prices and lack of social housing would make that much more difficult now. I’m afraid there’s also a perception that immigrants will have the lower paid jobs sewn up.
I do accept that generally people should move to where the work is, persuading businesses to move doesn’t seem to work long-term.

Hmm linky no worky ‘://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jCEamUarOSI&pp=ygUPRmFpbGVkIGluIHdhbGVz’

Add https

GogLais wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:03 am

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:43 am

C69 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:21 pm

Tbh you are talking shit from a little Englander six form common room stand point.
Refry hasn't ranted about Thatcher at all in these post he right talked about Thatcherite Milton F child like economic positionS.
Remember in later Friedman recanted and agreed his methods were repressive and counter productive.
His experiment with the Chicago Boys in Chile were positively murderous.

Thatcher and her friend Pinochet failed massively

An ancestor of mine left Neath for Birmingham for better chance of work and life for his family - this was in about 1880….

Probably house prices and lack of social housing would make that much more difficult now. I’m afraid there’s also a perception that immigrants will have the lower paid jobs sewn up.
I do accept that generally people should move to where the work is, persuading businesses to move doesn’t seem to work long-term.

Agree about housing. The challenge with moving to Birmingham would be (unless you have family there which is I think how low skilled immigrants manage) is that to get rent in Birmingham as a UC claimant would be hard as landlords know you have FA money and raising a deposit of a month's rent would be challenging to say the least.

Nb, it’s sometimes (usually?) not a landlords call to make - certain block management companies have ‘professionals only’ clause, as do mortgage providers for B2L mortgages.

Had an American author willing to pay a years rent up front as couldn’t prove income , I was willing but mgt company said no.

Managed to get in, they examined my c.v in detail. Zero feedback as it was excellent. Was litterally there with her for 3 minutes. Then did interview techniques. Not sure if any of you lot have had your interview skills put under the microscope by six people?

Feedback..I was amiable, affable and engaging, lots of eye contact, great posture..interesting honest answers.
Only feedback really is I should go with the answer (to one of the questions) that brings in more teamworking.

So the reason why I am unemployed, and once was so stressed by it, my heart actually expanded to the size of a rugby ball and collapsed causing massive damage, leaving me in coronary care for four weeks, terrifying my mum and my mrs and costing the taxpayer like 200 grand. .. is

... "in one of the questions I should refer more to the teamworking bit".

They gave us 30 minutes to prepare in a loud conference room...I couldn't think, just looked up the company on the Internet and winged it.




Guess in this world, it's not what you know, but who, and the success of a capitalist society is based on finger jabbing and hateful, spiteful bullying bollocks?

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:15 am Nb, it’s sometimes (usually?) not a landlords call to make - certain block management companies have ‘professionals only’ clause, as do mortgage providers for B2L mortgages.

Had an American author willing to pay a years rent up front as couldn’t prove income , I was willing but mgt company said no.

If they have two people who want the room, someone in work Vs a UC claimant. You've admitted to in the reply what the response would be.

Now you might get lucky and find a slum where you have little competition of working people or even less likely a social housing association. But it's not a case of pack up your stuff and find work.

You'd also probably need money to travel into your place of work as housing wise it's unlikely to live that close.

So whilst it's advisable to move to find work, it's actually not a get up and go type deal. You need a decent amount of money to.

Oh and just for the avoidance of doubt, all the instructors, examiners, were women, all six..and all the jobless poor hopeless fuckers, were men (aside from one girl who could barely speak English, from Poland I think.. but will probably be an instructor next week.).

My ole given up, get drunk..fuck this for a game of chess.. dead before 30.. single school friends deffo had the right idea.