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Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:17 am
by Torquemada 1420
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/2023/08/14/cou ... 395255.php
The risks inherent in these warm up games.
It's FH chaos out there with Sexton and Farrell trying to rule themselves out through their own actions.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
by inactionman
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:23 am
by Torquemada 1420
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
Yup. France lost Jelonch a few months ago and now looks like Baille is gone after injury on Saturday too. SA have lost Pollard and Am I think.
Meantime, just seen the Irish fiddling the rules to get Sexton game time
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -the-heat/
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:28 am
by Lobby
The Boks are also missing Handre Pollard through injury, leaving them with Mannie Libbok (7 caps) as their 1st choice FH, while Eddie has chosen to drop all his recognised FHs and picked Carter Gordon (all of 4 caps) as his only FH.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:30 am
by Torquemada 1420
Lobby wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:28 am
The Boks are also missing Handre Pollard through injury, leaving them with Mannie Libbok (7 caps) as their 1st choice FH, while Eddie has chosen to drop all his recognised FHs and picked Carter Gordon (all of 4 caps) as his only FH.
Losing Am is a disaster for Boks too.
NZ and Ire now must be favourites with no injuries to key players I can think of.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:34 am
by sockwithaticket
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:23 am
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
Yup. France lost Jelonch a few months ago and now looks like Baille is gone after injury on Saturday too.
SA have lost Pollard and Am I think.
Meantime, just seen the Irish fiddling the rules to get Sexton game time
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -the-heat/
Yep they're both out injured. de Jager is also out of the Saffa squad, illness apparently. Hope it's nothing too serious, but it must be fairly severe if it'll keep him out of a tournament that's still a few weeks away.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:37 am
by handyman
Chance for the draftees to make a name for themselves.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:42 am
by boere wors
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:34 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:23 am
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
Yup. France lost Jelonch a few months ago and now looks like Baille is gone after injury on Saturday too.
SA have lost Pollard and Am I think.
Meantime, just seen the Irish fiddling the rules to get Sexton game time
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -the-heat/
Yep they're both out injured. de Jager is also out of the Saffa squad, illness apparently. Hope it's nothing too serious, but it must be fairly severe if it'll keep him out of a tournament that's still a few weeks away.
Lood the jager has an inflammation of the heart muscle as a result of an ordinary viral infection. Needs 4 weeks rest.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:49 am
by Joost
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
JvP now confirmed as gone for the tournament, Alex Mitchell in (prefer the latter as a player tbh - guess his box kicking isn’t as good and doesn’t play for Leicester, which is why he didn’t originally make the cut!)
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:55 am
by clydecloggie
Joost wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:49 am
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
JvP now confirmed as gone for the tournament, Alex Mitchell in (prefer the latter as a player tbh - guess his box kicking isn’t as good and doesn’t play for Leicester, which is why he didn’t originally make the cut!)
Does that mean Youngs as starting SH? It's a good thing the English are motoring along nicely or having to rely on the world's slowest SH would present a bit of an issue <cough>. Or will this complete the Danny Care redemption story?
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:55 am
by Tichtheid
Duhan van der Merwe looked very uncomfortable as he left the field after scoring on Saturday, fingers crossed for him.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:57 am
by Simian
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:55 am
Duhan van der Merwe looked very uncomfortable as he left the field after scoring on Saturday, fingers crossed for him.
Yeah. He didn't look like he was moving very freely immediately before that play either, which seems a bit ominous.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:01 am
by Tichtheid
Simian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:57 am
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:55 am
Duhan van der Merwe looked very uncomfortable as he left the field after scoring on Saturday, fingers crossed for him.
Yeah. He didn't look like he was moving very freely immediately before that play either, which seems a bit ominous.
It's three weeks and six days until the SA game, I hope we put out a shadow side against Georgia
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:09 am
by inactionman
Joost wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:49 am
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
JvP now confirmed as gone for the tournament, Alex Mitchell in (prefer the latter as a player tbh - guess his box kicking isn’t as good and doesn’t play for Leicester, which is why he didn’t originally make the cut!)
Mitchell can be a bit wobbly defensively, so in that respect you'd think he'd slot nicely into this current England team. He does add pace off the base of rucks, which will be utterly wasted in this current England team.
Ben Spencer still can't get a look-in.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:13 am
by Torquemada 1420
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:55 am
Duhan van der Merwe looked very uncomfortable as he left the field after scoring on Saturday, fingers crossed for him.
I hadn't thought that one was serious. Hope not.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:15 am
by sockwithaticket
boere wors wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:42 am
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:34 am
Yep they're both out injured. de Jager is also out of the Saffa squad, illness apparently. Hope it's nothing too serious, but it must be fairly severe if it'll keep him out of a tournament that's still a few weeks away.
Lood the jager has an inflammation of the heart muscle as a result of an ordinary viral infection. Needs 4 weeks rest.
Oof that's a real kick in the nads. Something eminently recoverable, but just at the wrong time.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:17 am
by Slick
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:01 am
Simian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:57 am
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:55 am
Duhan van der Merwe looked very uncomfortable as he left the field after scoring on Saturday, fingers crossed for him.
Yeah. He didn't look like he was moving very freely immediately before that play either, which seems a bit ominous.
It's three weeks and six days until the SA game, I hope we put out a shadow side against Georgia
Has there been any update on Sutherland? He looked in pain.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:24 am
by Dinsdale Piranha
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:09 am
Joost wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:49 am
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:20 am
Not 10s, but sadly a couple of the Welsh lads looked in quite a bit of discomfort on saturday, and it doesn't look good for van Poortvliet.
JvP now confirmed as gone for the tournament, Alex Mitchell in (prefer the latter as a player tbh - guess his box kicking isn’t as good and doesn’t play for Leicester, which is why he didn’t originally make the cut!)
Mitchell can be a bit wobbly defensively, so in that respect you'd think he'd slot nicely into this current England team. He does add pace off the base of rucks, which will be utterly wasted in this current England team.
Ben Spencer still can't get a look-in.
England are going to start Ben Youngs, aren't we
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:27 am
by Big D
Real shame for him, France and the world cup.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:29 am
by handyman
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:01 am
Simian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:57 am
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:55 am
Duhan van der Merwe looked very uncomfortable as he left the field after scoring on Saturday, fingers crossed for him.
Yeah. He didn't look like he was moving very freely immediately before that play either, which seems a bit ominous.
It's three weeks and six days until the SA game, I hope we put out a shadow side against Georgia
Massive game for both sides. The loser will have to beat Ireland.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:33 am
by SaintK
Slick wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:17 am
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:01 am
Simian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:57 am
Yeah. He didn't look like he was moving very freely immediately before that play either, which seems a bit ominous.
It's three weeks and six days until the SA game, I hope we put out a shadow side against Georgia
Has there been any update on Sutherland? He looked in pain.
Didn't he stay on? Commentators thought he was winded.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:44 am
by clydecloggie
Cyril Baille 'out or majority of pool stage'
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:46 am
by Paddington Bear
There's a big question mark for me as to what we're gaining from these games beyond TV money and some gate receipts, I suppose I've just answered my own question. No one really seems to be trying anything new beyond combinations and people are just getting injured/banned.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:53 am
by clydecloggie
Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:46 am
There's a big question mark for me as to what we're gaining from these games beyond TV money and some gate receipts, I suppose I've just answered my own question. No one really seems to be trying anything new beyond combinations and people are just getting injured/banned.
I think the two France games have been very valuable to the Scotland first XV - they'll be better against SA than if they had gone into that game cold after not playing at all for a few months (and not together as the national team since early March).
But there is a real sense that they weren't showing all the things they plan on showing in September - the 10/12/13 axis was humming along nicely but wasn't hitting top gear just yet, and I think that was deliberate. And surely all sorts of set piece patterns were not being used just yet.
The games also serve as a fitness check and they seem to have got their conditioning right this time (after getting it horribly wrong 4 years ago).
If it's at the expense of McMerwe, Sutherland and White (unlikely worst-case scenario), though - it would be a big price to pay.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:42 pm
by TheFrog
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:44 am
Cyril Baille 'out or majority of pool stage'
That is a massive blow. Arguably the best LHP in the world.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:53 pm
by handyman
TheFrog wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:42 pm
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:44 am
Cyril Baille 'out or majority of pool stage'
That is a massive blow. Arguably the best LHP in the world.
I think Kitshoff would have something to say about that.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:08 pm
by Joost
Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:46 am
There's a big question mark for me as to what we're gaining from these games beyond TV money and some gate receipts, I suppose I've just answered my own question. No one really seems to be trying anything new beyond combinations and people are just getting injured/banned.
Might work in our favour if Ford ends up as our starting 10 - I’m not one to get down on Farrell as a matter of course, he has his good points and seems to be a good team man, but given the lack of creativity elsewhere in the backline and how they both played at the weekend I think Ford looks like the better bet at 10.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:59 pm
by Torquemada 1420
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:44 am
Cyril Baille 'out or majority of pool stage'
That's a better prognosis than we had earlier today. Still uncertain if he will recover and it means Fra would have to risk a squad slot on him.
Meantime Bamba (who started in 1st Sco game at tighthead) is now also out of the comp. forcing the call up of a relative unknown from Racing: Thomas Laclayat.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:58 pm
by Biffer
handyman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:53 pm
TheFrog wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:42 pm
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:44 am
Cyril Baille 'out or majority of pool stage'
That is a massive blow. Arguably the best LHP in the world.
I think Kitshoff would have something to say about that.
Hence 'arguably'. Reading comprehension old bean.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:54 pm
by Marylandolorian
Doesn’t look like much, fatigue?
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:03 pm
by Torquemada 1420
handyman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:53 pm
TheFrog wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:42 pm
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:44 am
Cyril Baille 'out or majority of pool stage'
That is a massive blow. Arguably the best LHP in the world.
I think Kitshoff would have something to say about that.
Mehh. Kitshoff was well respected during his time at UBB and he might well be a slightly better scrummager than Baille but
a) Kitschoff isn't even a starter for SA so not even the best LHP in his own country?
b) He's not even in the same room in regards ball handling abilities and open field play.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:04 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:54 pm
Doesn’t look like much, fatigue?
No. Unfortunate as it was, like I hinted at earlier, it was poor tackling technique that got him into that position.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:26 pm
by Simian
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:04 pm
Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:54 pm
Doesn’t look like much, fatigue?
No. Unfortunate as it was, like I hinted at earlier, it was poor tackling technique that got him into that position.
High to start with no change in carrier height, no other tackler… head on head,, right? I thought it was a bit puzzling it wasn’t looked at more, tbh.
thought Finn did a good job flagging that to Berry without pissing Berry off tho :)
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:29 pm
by Simian
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:04 pm
Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:54 pm
Doesn’t look like much, fatigue?
No. Unfortunate as it was, like I hinted at earlier, it was poor tackling technique that got him into that position.
Wait… do you think poor technique is a defence? Cos that is ridiculous if so :)
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:30 pm
by Cartman
Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:24 am
inactionman wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:09 am
Joost wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:49 am
JvP now confirmed as gone for the tournament, Alex Mitchell in (prefer the latter as a player tbh - guess his box kicking isn’t as good and doesn’t play for Leicester, which is why he didn’t originally make the cut!)
Mitchell can be a bit wobbly defensively, so in that respect you'd think he'd slot nicely into this current England team. He does add pace off the base of rucks, which will be utterly wasted in this current England team.
Ben Spencer still can't get a look-in.
England are going to start Ben Youngs, aren't we
He showed a lot of promise in his first 100 caps
Watch him kick on in his second 100
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:16 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Simian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:29 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:04 pm
Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:54 pm
Doesn’t look like much, fatigue?
No. Unfortunate as it was, like I hinted at earlier, it was poor tackling technique that got him into that position.
Wait… do you think poor technique is a defence? Cos that is ridiculous if so :)
A defence for what? I was saying that he contributed to his own injury by the bad technique. Sure, it's unlucky. Freakish even. But if he got low, it never happens. Sadly Ntamack had been doing a lot of this upright, not properly committed "tackles" in the last year or so.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:41 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
Once the throw isn't straight one of the few French forwards who will run, Ollivon, is standing at the lineout seagulling his displease the Scottish jumper could only just reach it on the Scottish side. Then it takes 3 French forwards who don't get their press right to deal with VdM, and that means almost no French forwards are available to be wrapping around. Which leaves Ntamack and Danny quite a lot of ground to cover vs a running 10 with the ball in both hands looking for a defender to bite.
Point being I can see why Ntamack wants to stay his feet, not get planted and bet he's read the play else he's creating a 5 on 3 overlap for the attack. It's very easy to say just go low, it would perhaps fix the problems that did occur, it might simply see others transpire. At which point some learned folk would blame Ntamack for going off his feet and not remaining alive to a developing attack, or so one might suppose given some of the unhinged criticism he gets
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:03 pm
by TheFrog
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:41 pm
Once the throw isn't straight one of the few French forwards who will run, Ollivon, is standing at the lineout seagulling his displease the Scottish jumper could only just reach it on the Scottish side. Then it takes 3 French forwards who don't get their press right to deal with VdM, and that means almost no French forwards are available to be wrapping around. Which leaves Ntamack and Danny quite a lot of ground to cover vs a running 10 with the ball in both hands looking for a defender to bite.
Point being I can see why Ntamack wants to stay his feet, not get planted and bet he's read the play else he's creating a 5 on 3 overlap for the attack. It's very easy to say just go low, it would perhaps fix the problems that did occur, it might simply see others transpire. At which point some learned folk would blame Ntamack for going off his feet and not remaining alive to a developing attack, or so one might suppose given some of the unhinged criticism he gets
Torque had a special love for Ntamack.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:05 am
by Yr Alban
TheFrog wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:03 pm
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:41 pm
Once the throw isn't straight one of the few French forwards who will run, Ollivon, is standing at the lineout seagulling his displease the Scottish jumper could only just reach it on the Scottish side. Then it takes 3 French forwards who don't get their press right to deal with VdM, and that means almost no French forwards are available to be wrapping around. Which leaves Ntamack and Danny quite a lot of ground to cover vs a running 10 with the ball in both hands looking for a defender to bite.
Point being I can see why Ntamack wants to stay his feet, not get planted and bet he's read the play else he's creating a 5 on 3 overlap for the attack. It's very easy to say just go low, it would perhaps fix the problems that did occur, it might simply see others transpire. At which point some learned folk would blame Ntamack for going off his feet and not remaining alive to a developing attack, or so one might suppose given some of the unhinged criticism he gets
Torque had a special love for Ntamack.
Equalled only by his love for Finn Russell. Though he has gone oddly quiet on that front recently.
Re: Ntamack gone. Who is next?
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:38 pm
by JM2K6
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:41 pm
Once the throw isn't straight one of the few French forwards who will run, Ollivon, is standing at the lineout seagulling his displease the Scottish jumper could only just reach it on the Scottish side. Then it takes 3 French forwards who don't get their press right to deal with VdM, and that means almost no French forwards are available to be wrapping around. Which leaves Ntamack and Danny quite a lot of ground to cover vs a running 10 with the ball in both hands looking for a defender to bite.
Point being I can see why Ntamack wants to stay his feet, not get planted and bet he's read the play else he's creating a 5 on 3 overlap for the attack. It's very easy to say just go low, it would perhaps fix the problems that did occur, it might simply see others transpire. At which point some learned folk would blame Ntamack for going off his feet and not remaining alive to a developing attack, or so one might suppose given some of the unhinged criticism he gets
Spot on. The best he can do for the team there is not commit until there is no other choice. Upright tackles are bad but he's attempting a grab at best because he's doing his utmost to stay in the fight for space and be able to cover across. His job there is to slow down Russell and without the knee clash maybe he succeeds.