NPR

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:23 pm**

Yay or nay, considering the amount we have now, just along the M4, how do you feel about them?..

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:25 pm**

TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:23 pm Yay or nay, considering the amount we have now, just along the M4, how do you feel about them?..

Bastards!! We only have one along the M4 in England.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:47 pm**

Plenty locally. Yay but would prefer it if more were community based schemes so it benefits communities near by.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:55 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:25 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:23 pm Yay or nay, considering the amount we have now, just along the M4, how do you feel about them?..
Bastards!! We only have one along the M4 in England.

1 in Reading, 1 outside of Bath junction.. how more do you need?..

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:57 pm**

petej wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:47 pm Plenty locally. Yay but would prefer it if more were community based schemes so it benefits communities near by.

I can see the big farm around Ammanford from my house, plus the ones up the heads of the valleys road, I like them, though, as you say, it's be great if hey benefitted the local community first..

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:06 pm**

TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:57 pm
petej wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:47 pm Plenty locally. Yay but would prefer it if more were community based schemes so it benefits communities near by.
I can see the big farm around Ammanford from my house, plus the ones up the heads of the valleys road, I like them, though, as you say, it's be great if hey benefitted the local community first..

Benefit how? Raise kids or help the aged cross the street. They make electricity….

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:14 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:06 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:57 pm
petej wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:47 pm Plenty locally. Yay but would prefer it if more were community based schemes so it benefits communities near by.
I can see the big farm around Ammanford from my house, plus the ones up the heads of the valleys road, I like them, though, as you say, it's be great if hey benefitted the local community first..
Benefit how? Raise kids or help the aged cross the street. They make electricity….

As in they should power the local communities at a reduced rate..

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:33 pm**

TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:14 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:06 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:57 pm

I can see the big farm around Ammanford from my house, plus the ones up the heads of the valleys road, I like them, though, as you say, it's be great if hey benefitted the local community first..
Benefit how? Raise kids or help the aged cross the street. They make electricity….
As in they should power the local communities at a reduced rate..

Yeah... nah. Follow that line of reasoning and you end up providing cheaper power to anyone living near any sort of power generator. It's counter productive where you have the usual national or regional power grid set up. Everyone benefits.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:46 pm**

TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:55 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:25 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:23 pm Yay or nay, considering the amount we have now, just along the M4, how do you feel about them?..
Bastards!! We only have one along the M4 in England.
1 in Reading, 1 outside of Bath junction.. how more do you need?..

There are two burnt out ones just off the M4, on the M5 by the Thornbury interchange.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:48 pm**

Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:33 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:14 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:06 pm

Benefit how? Raise kids or help the aged cross the street. They make electricity….
As in they should power the local communities at a reduced rate..
Yeah... nah. Follow that line of reasoning and you end up providing cheaper power to anyone living near any sort of power generator. It's counter productive where you have the usual national or regional power grid set up. Everyone benefits.

Everyone benefits or everyone gets a kicking from the energy companies? I kind of agree but energy is a cartel/monopoly in the UK and I have a low level of faith in the regulator. Anything that breaks that monopoly is a plus and think community building owned wind or solar is a good thing. https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/what-a ... ind-power/

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:52 pm**

https://www.renewablesfirst.co.uk/renew ... bine-cost/

A million quid a go.

It also has to be windy.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:58 pm**

petej wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:48 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:33 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:14 pm

As in they should power the local communities at a reduced rate..
Yeah... nah. Follow that line of reasoning and you end up providing cheaper power to anyone living near any sort of power generator. It's counter productive where you have the usual national or regional power grid set up. Everyone benefits.
Everyone benefits or everyone gets a kicking from the energy companies? I kind of agree but energy is a cartel/monopoly in the UK and I have a low level of faith in the regulator. Anything that breaks that monopoly is a plus and think community building owned wind or solar is a good thing. https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/what-a ... ind-power/

That's a different issue though... one I am on board with. Corporate greed over social benefit is a widespread issue that is beginning to see kickback across different industries and jurisdictions. Perhaps it's the post Covid greedflation phenomena that's fuelled the rise in dissent but whatever it is, people are waking up to the madness that is turbo charged capitalism that is basically killing our planet.

Microgrids are one answer... imagine small scale generation linked up with some sort of storage back up, like a small town with rooftop solar and a wind turbine or two feeding a battery during low use and discharging during high use all linked with smart tech.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:03 pm**

A better idea would be to build Nuclear power stations every 75 miles from Fishguard to Chepstow and then sell the energy to the countries in Europe who were daft enough to go too green too early and don't have the power to boil a camping kettle on a calm day <waves at Germany>

Then we wouldn't have 1 in 5 people in the entire country on an NHS waiting list. Probably.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:07 pm**

David in Gwent wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:46 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:55 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:25 pm

Bastards!! We only have one along the M4 in England.
1 in Reading, 1 outside of Bath junction.. how more do you need?..
There are two burnt out ones just off the M4, on the M5 by the Thornbury interchange.

Citation please..

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:11 pm**

TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:07 pm
David in Gwent wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:46 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:55 pm

1 in Reading, 1 outside of Bath junction.. how more do you need?..
There are two burnt out ones just off the M4, on the M5 by the Thornbury interchange.
Citation please..

When I'm stuck in traffic tomorrow morning I'll try and remember to take a photo.

When you come off the M4 to go down and join the M5 going to the South West it's by the Helipad.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:20 am**

TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:14 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:06 pm
TB63 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:57 pm

I can see the big farm around Ammanford from my house, plus the ones up the heads of the valleys road, I like them, though, as you say, it's be great if hey benefitted the local community first..
Benefit how? Raise kids or help the aged cross the street. They make electricity….
As in they should power the local communities at a reduced rate..

You’re aware a percentage of funds go to local communities each year, right? GwentY Mor provides about £700k a year to the community fund.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:30 am**

There used to be 5 turbines at Harwell (just south of Oxford) on the A34 until a few years ago. Then they disappeared.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:53 am**

Sandstorm wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:30 am There used to be 5 turbines at Harwell (just south of Oxford) on the A34 until a few years ago. Then they disappeared.

I can't remember them and I only moved out of oxon 3 years ago.. you not mixing up with the ones on the A420?..

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:57 am**

The Vestas V236-15.0 MW™ prototype offshore wind turbine has set a world record for the most power output by a single wind turbine in a 24-hour period, producing 363 megawatt-hours in that time span, the Danish wind turbine manufacturer said.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:59 am**

TB63 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:53 am
Sandstorm wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:30 am There used to be 5 turbines at Harwell (just south of Oxford) on the A34 until a few years ago. Then they disappeared.
I can't remember them and I only moved out of oxon 3 years ago.. you not mixing up with the ones on the A420?..

I don’t think so……I’m frantically Google Image searching trying to find them.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:02 am**

You lot must have load shedding like us and you will appreciate anything solar, wind turbines, exc. I am sure this is the future for investment or career.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:04 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:02 am You lot must have load shedding like us and you will appreciate anything solar, wind turbines, exc. I am sure this is the future for investment or career.

Absolutely. The number of people here who think a view is more important than a hot meal is crazy. Usually retired folk. Once UK starts having load shedding, I hope their electric wheelchairs leave them stuck out in the rain.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:14 am**

Sandstorm wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:04 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:02 am You lot must have load shedding like us and you will appreciate anything solar, wind turbines, exc. I am sure this is the future for investment or career.
Absolutely. The number of people here who think a view is more important than a hot meal is crazy. Usually retired folk. Once UK starts having load shedding, I hope their electric wheelchairs leave them stuck out in the rain.

The view thing floors me... I like the sight of a line of white turbines along a ridge line, set against green fields. Beats a fucking cooling tower or a smoke stack.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:36 am**

There are two sites near me, one with two turbines and the other with about a dozen. I see them a couple of times every day and just think thank fuck - that's money that isn't being sent to some horribly oppressive regime and then literally going up in smoke!

Some of the old fogies round these part like to give out about them, but I just tell them their kettle wont boil itself

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:48 am**

David in Gwent wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:03 pm A better idea would be to build Nuclear power stations every 75 miles from Fishguard to Chepstow and then sell the energy to the countries in Europe who were daft enough to go too green too early and don't have the power to boil a camping kettle on a calm day <waves at Germany>

Then we wouldn't have 1 in 5 people in the entire country on an NHS waiting list. Probably.

We aren't at the point where we will maintain generation capacity with what is planned. If we do build it would be easier to do so at existing licence sites. More interconnectors would need to be built. We don't have the workforce or supply chain.

This energy would be sold by edf or whoever owns the plant so can't see how it would help funding and staffing of the NHS or even lead to a tax cut for the wealthiest. It would help fund french nuclear plant decommissioning.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:23 am**

petej wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:48 am
David in Gwent wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:03 pm A better idea would be to build Nuclear power stations every 75 miles from Fishguard to Chepstow and then sell the energy to the countries in Europe who were daft enough to go too green too early and don't have the power to boil a camping kettle on a calm day <waves at Germany>

Then we wouldn't have 1 in 5 people in the entire country on an NHS waiting list. Probably.
We aren't at the point where we will maintain generation capacity with what is planned. If we do build it would be easier to do so at existing licence sites. More interconnectors would need to be built.We don't have the workforce or supply chain

This energy would be sold by edf or whoever owns the plant so can't see how it would help funding and staffing of the NHS or even lead to a tax cut for the wealthiest. It would help fund french nuclear plant decommissioning.

Sounds like an opportunity to me.

I'm obviously talking about Wales building it's own plants, not owned by EDF etc, I thought that much would be obvious?

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:41 am**

David in Gwent wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:52 pm https://www.renewablesfirst.co.uk/renew ... bine-cost/

A million quid a go.

It also has to be windy.

Well this is a turn up for the books.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:10 pm**

For Wales nuclear wise I would look at a small modular reactors at wylfa to start with. I would maybe look at a smr at port Talbot to support a transition to green steel production. Beyond that a mix of renewables.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:40 pm**

petej wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:10 pm For Wales nuclear wise I would look at a small modular reactors at wylfa to start with. I would maybe look at a smr at port Talbot to support a transition to green steel production. Beyond that a mix of renewables.

How about mass education and training of a capable work force for a Welsh Nuclear Industry. Wales would have enough wealth to ensure world class services for all of it's inhabitants including education and health and could give the surplus to the most needy.

With a bit of imagination we could leave our footprint on the history of modern man.

.....or we could put up a few wind turbines and whinge a lot.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:11 pm**

petej wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:10 pm For Wales nuclear wise I would look at a small modular reactors at wylfa to start with. I would maybe look at a smr at port Talbot to support a transition to green steel production. Beyond that a mix of renewables.

Sure why not fusion? I'm being sarcastic - there hasn't been a single viable SMR used for civilian generation in 50 years of trying and billions of research money. It's snake oil.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:40 pm**

derriz wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:11 pm
petej wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:10 pm For Wales nuclear wise I would look at a small modular reactors at wylfa to start with. I would maybe look at a smr at port Talbot to support a transition to green steel production. Beyond that a mix of renewables.
Sure why not fusion? I'm being sarcastic - there hasn't been a single viable SMR used for civilian generation in 50 years of trying and billions of research money. It's snake oil.

Indeed. Plus would you trust a bunch of Taffs to turn on the first commercial one?

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:36 am**

Typical British, wanting to bury and build all sorts of toxic shit all over the beautiful Welsh landscape.

What happens when the Sea levels rise a couple of foot (they need to be near bodies of water) and we have fukashimas all over the South Wales coastline?
Wales should just get independence and aim to become energy independent.
Wales is already a Net exporter of electricity..

"In 2019, Wales generated 27% of its electricity consumption as renewable electricity, an increase from 19% in 2014. The Welsh Government set a target of 70% by 2030. In 2019, Wales was a net exporter of electricity. It produced 27.9 TWh of electricity while only consuming 14.7 TWh."

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:47 am**

Line6 HXFX wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:36 am Typical British, wanting to bury and build all sorts of toxic shit all over the beautiful Welsh landscape.

What happens when the Sea levels rise a couple of foot (they need to be near bodies of water) and we have fukashimas all over the South Wales coastline?
Wales should just get independence and aim to become energy independent.
Wales is already a Net exporter of electricity..

"In 2019, Wales generated 27% of its electricity consumption as renewable electricity, an increase from 19% in 2014. The Welsh Government set a target of 70% by 2030. In 2019, Wales was a net exporter of electricity. It produced 27.9 TWh of electricity while only consuming 14.7 TWh."

Do you have a timeline on when the sea levels are going raise a couple of feet please?

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:11 am**

Sorry to jump in on this, but I am sure I saw some astonishing statement that the only reason the UK is one of the top offshore wind power generators is due to it being effectively impossible to build much cheaper onshore wind farms in England.

Meanwhile they are going up all over the place in Scotland.

Whilst there was certainly opposition at first, to most people now they are just part of the landscape.

I had a quick Google but failed to find info on the differences between Scotland and England, other than the fact that all the biggest onshore windfarms are in Scotland.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:18 am**

weegie01 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:11 am Sorry to jump in on this, but I am sure I saw some astonishing statement that the only reason the UK is one of the top offshore wind power generators is due to it being effectively impossible to build much cheaper onshore wind farms in England.

Meanwhile they are going up all over the place in Scotland.

Whilst there was certainly opposition at first, to most people now they are just part of the landscape.

I had a quick Google but failed to find info on the differences between Scotland and England, other than the fact that all the biggest onshore windfarms are in Scotland.

Scotland is the windiest country in Europe due to eastward moving Atlantic depressions that bring strong winds and clouds continuously throughout the year. In common with the rest of the United Kingdom, wind prevails from the south-west

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_o ... uth%2Dwest.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:26 am**

Line6 HXFX wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:36 am Typical British, wanting to bury and build all sorts of toxic shit all over the beautiful Welsh landscape.

What happens when the Sea levels rise a couple of foot (they need to be near bodies of water) and we have fukashimas all over the South Wales coastline?
Wales should just get independence and aim to become energy independent.
Wales is already a Net exporter of electricity..

"In 2019, Wales generated 27% of its electricity consumption as renewable electricity, an increase from 19% in 2014. The Welsh Government set a target of 70% by 2030. In 2019, Wales was a net exporter of electricity. It produced 27.9 TWh of electricity while only consuming 14.7 TWh."

You realise the generation is privately owned right?

The model that makes the costs of building renewables viable is based on access to the GB energy market with a price floor linked to fossil fuels.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:33 am**

David in Gwent wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:47 am
Line6 HXFX wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:36 am Typical British, wanting to bury and build all sorts of toxic shit all over the beautiful Welsh landscape.

What happens when the Sea levels rise a couple of foot (they need to be near bodies of water) and we have fukashimas all over the South Wales coastline?
Wales should just get independence and aim to become energy independent.
Wales is already a Net exporter of electricity..

"In 2019, Wales generated 27% of its electricity consumption as renewable electricity, an increase from 19% in 2014. The Welsh Government set a target of 70% by 2030. In 2019, Wales was a net exporter of electricity. It produced 27.9 TWh of electricity while only consuming 14.7 TWh."
Do you have a timeline on when the sea levels are going raise a couple of feet please?

27 years.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:37 am**

Other things I know but failed to mention, that you may want to get all patronisingly "you do realise" about.

I realise..

Grass is green,
sky is blue,
there's not a cloud to spoil the view..

.But it's raining.
....raining in my heart..

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:46 am**

weegie01 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:11 am Sorry to jump in on this, but I am sure I saw some astonishing statement that the only reason the UK is one of the top offshore wind power generators is due to it being effectively impossible to build much cheaper onshore wind farms in England.

Meanwhile they are going up all over the place in Scotland.

Whilst there was certainly opposition at first, to most people now they are just part of the landscape.

I had a quick Google but failed to find info on the differences between Scotland and England, other than the fact that all the biggest onshore windfarms are in Scotland.

Much more of Scotland is empty so onshore, which is cheaper, makes more sense.

There are also fewer good offshore locations around Scotland due to water depth. Most of the best locations for offshore wind are off the Coast of England (wind, water depth)

So.. Scotland - good for onshore - England - good for offshore. Wales - somewhere in between.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:48 am**

derriz wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:11 pm
petej wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:10 pm For Wales nuclear wise I would look at a small modular reactors at wylfa to start with. I would maybe look at a smr at port Talbot to support a transition to green steel production. Beyond that a mix of renewables.
Sure why not fusion? I'm being sarcastic - there hasn't been a single viable SMR used for civilian generation in 50 years of trying and billions of research money. It's snake oil.

SMRs are in continuous operation world wide on submarines and ice breakers. The output from the SMRs proposed actually isn't that small most are pretty much the same as magnox reactors were. Small might be a misnomer in these more medium in reality.

NPR

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