NPR

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:24 pm**

Going to be interesting. Tonga are expecting a physical battle because that's all we have been. And what everyone is talking about re us. The hits are going to be big. Tonga have nothing to gain or lose

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:07 pm**

Basically smashing two anvils against one another for 80 mins.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:47 am**

I won't risk Pollard for this game. Perhaps as a replacement, 10 min at the end. Let Libbok have his swansong before the real rugby starts.

We need to score try's and keep them from scoring here, to up our points for and against, so play the "runners" at the back and hope the forwards can keep Tonga out.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:07 am**

Pollard has to play if we want him match fit for the knock-outs. Otherwise what was the point in inviting him to the squad?

The only reason for starting Manie for this match would be to give him conversion practice (all due respect, Tonga)

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:55 am**

If Tonga have no citings from last match I expect them to go full monty on the cheap shots.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:06 am**

Risk Pollard getting written off by some Tongan that was offered a brown envelope from a filthy Frenchmen. Nah, he's an experienced campaigner, he does not need any warm-up match. Besides, he'll just be there to kick, like Naas.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:35 am**

Pollard will play. Rassie already said he will. The guy needs game time, no better time than the Tonga game to see where he's at anyway.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:41 am**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:35 am Pollard will play. Rassie already said he will. The guy needs game time, no better time than the Tonga game to see where he's at anyway.

True. If Pollard is looking for a team that will give away penalties and allow him to take lots of shots at goal....it's Tonga.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:38 pm**

I'm worried about Tonga writing players off but perhaps someone should have a word with Snyman about his "celebrations". Last time he played with Pollard in a WC he broke his jaw and he almost ripped Marx in half the other day.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:25 pm**

average joe wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:38 pm I'm worried about Tonga writing players off but perhaps someone should have a word with Snyman about his "celebrations". Last time he played with Pollard in a WC he broke his jaw and he almost ripped Marx in half the other day.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:50 pm**

average joe wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:06 am Risk Pollard getting written off by some Tongan that was offered a brown envelope from a filthy Frenchmen. Nah, he's an experienced campaigner, he does not need any warm-up match. Besides, he'll just be there to kick, like Naas.

He's just back from injury - got 20mins under the belt and hasn't played test rugby since August 2022.
I don't care how experienced you are. There's no substitute for match fitness and he needs some.

If we let Manie play he is going to put in an amazing performance in an open game against a broken defence and kick 10 conversions and then we will have all kinds of annoying debates leading into the QF. We have to risk Pollard and hope he puts in a performance that makes everybody shut the hell up once and for all.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:58 pm**

Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:50 pm We have to risk Pollard and hope he puts in a performance that makes everybody shut the hell up once and for all.

God help us (and especially AJ) if Pollard kicks 3/7 against Tonga.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:23 pm**

Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:50 pm
average joe wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:06 am Risk Pollard getting written off by some Tongan that was offered a brown envelope from a filthy Frenchmen. Nah, he's an experienced campaigner, he does not need any warm-up match. Besides, he'll just be there to kick, like Naas.
He's just back from injury - got 20mins under the belt and hasn't played test rugby since August 2022.
I don't care how experienced you are. There's no substitute for match fitness and he needs some.

If we let Manie play he is going to put in an amazing performance in an open game against a broken defence and kick 10 conversions and then we will have all kinds of annoying debates leading into the QF. We have to risk Pollard and hope he puts in a performance that makes everybody shut the hell up once and for all.

Do you remember what Pollard's kicking % was during that period?

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:30 pm**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:23 pm
Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:50 pm
average joe wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:06 am Risk Pollard getting written off by some Tongan that was offered a brown envelope from a filthy Frenchmen. Nah, he's an experienced campaigner, he does not need any warm-up match. Besides, he'll just be there to kick, like Naas.
He's just back from injury - got 20mins under the belt and hasn't played test rugby since August 2022.
I don't care how experienced you are. There's no substitute for match fitness and he needs some.

If we let Manie play he is going to put in an amazing performance in an open game against a broken defence and kick 10 conversions and then we will have all kinds of annoying debates leading into the QF. We have to risk Pollard and hope he puts in a performance that makes everybody shut the hell up once and for all.
Do you remember what Pollard's kicking % was during that period?

Which period?

EDIT: I can't recall the whole period, but he did miss his first 2 kicks in the opening quarter of his last test match we lost to the Aussies. I think Pollard ended with 1 from 3 attempts.
We were chasing the game and went for corner lineouts, still 25-3 behind going into the last 5mins. Scored two tries at the end, but they were converted by Jantjes who replaced Pollard after 60 mins.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:38 pm**

Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:30 pm
LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:23 pm
Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:50 pm

He's just back from injury - got 20mins under the belt and hasn't played test rugby since August 2022.
I don't care how experienced you are. There's no substitute for match fitness and he needs some.

If we let Manie play he is going to put in an amazing performance in an open game against a broken defence and kick 10 conversions and then we will have all kinds of annoying debates leading into the QF. We have to risk Pollard and hope he puts in a performance that makes everybody shut the hell up once and for all.
Do you remember what Pollard's kicking % was during that period?
Which period?

The period before he got injured. I seem to recall he was iffy with the boot as well.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:48 pm**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:38 pm The period before he got injured. I seem to recall he was iffy with the boot as well.

It wasn't as good as people seem to think yes.
Definitely not RWC 2019 playoff reliability which is giving a lot of people a false impression of Pollard's kicking prowess.

I just edited my previous comment; but he kicked 1 from 3 against the Aussies missing 2 early kicks in the Round 3 TRC match we lost.

I also recall him not being Morne Steyn level amazing. Leading into the Lions Series Pollard was a 75% kicker and in 2021 and 2022 his kicking wasn't great.

I'm not out to bash Pollard, or insinuate that Manie's kicking is acceptable, just pointing out that Pollard might not be the saviour everybody thinks he is going to be.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:37 pm**

Pollie with AE & Moodie. Get going.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:49 pm**

Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:48 pm
LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:38 pm The period before he got injured. I seem to recall he was iffy with the boot as well.
It wasn't as good as people seem to think yes.
Definitely not RWC 2019 playoff reliability which is giving a lot of people a false impression of Pollard's kicking prowess.

I just edited my previous comment; but he kicked 1 from 3 against the Aussies missing 2 early kicks in the Round 3 TRC match we lost.

I also recall him not being Morne Steyn level amazing. Leading into the Lions Series Pollard was a 75% kicker and in 2021 and 2022 his kicking wasn't great.

I'm not out to bash Pollard, or insinuate that Manie's kicking is acceptable, just pointing out that Pollard might not be the saviour everybody thinks he is going to be.

His tackling is a lot better than Manie

Cobus Reinach tackle

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:19 pm**

Sards has given up on Manie. Sadly.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 5:22 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:19 pm Sards has given up on Manie. Sadly.

I'm waiting on $ards to call for Curwin Bo$ch to replace Libbok.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 5:45 pm**

Chilli wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 5:22 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:19 pm Sards has given up on Manie. Sadly.
I'm waiting on $ards to call for Curwin Bo$ch to replace Libbok.

Nah he want Bosch to replace Willemse. Dunno now.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:40 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:19 pm Sards has given up on Manie. Sadly.

I have not given up on Manie.
You don't read properly. Manie was outstanding with the right team around him. But let's be honest, Rassie won't give him that. With Rassie it's his way or the byway. It's put a lot of pressure on Manie and devided the nation on this matter. I think Manie should bench under the backline that lost this weekend as Pollard is s better fit. By the same token Manie is a better fit than Pollard in the other backline. So Pollard should bench there.
For some reason Rassnabber are being dense to the matter and are going to break the 2 flyhalves.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:16 pm**

Sards wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:49 pm His tackling is a lot better than Manie

Nobody is disputing that Pollard is stronger on defence than Manie. Manie also runs faster than Pollard.

They both have strengths and weaknesses. Pollard is a more rounded player for sure. For players like Manie you have to work around their weaknesses.

The Boks actually had to change their defensive pattern to compensate for Libbok’s defensive shortcomings. Lots of teams have to hide their 10s on defence. The Boks actually went the other way and turned him into the chaos agent, using his speed as an asset and reducing the impact if he did miss his spot tackle. Here’s an interesting analysis on it: https://analystgus.substack.com/p/the-i ... s?r=277gcz

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 6:38 am**

Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:48 pm
LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:38 pm The period before he got injured. I seem to recall he was iffy with the boot as well.
It wasn't as good as people seem to think yes.
Definitely not RWC 2019 playoff reliability which is giving a lot of people a false impression of Pollard's kicking prowess.

I just edited my previous comment; but he kicked 1 from 3 against the Aussies missing 2 early kicks in the Round 3 TRC match we lost.

I also recall him not being Morne Steyn level amazing. Leading into the Lions Series Pollard was a 75% kicker and in 2021 and 2022 his kicking wasn't great.

I'm not out to bash Pollard, or insinuate that Manie's kicking is acceptable, just pointing out that Pollard might not be the saviour everybody thinks he is going to be.

Thanks, that was my thoughts as well. Pretty much in the same camp, I think rosy tinted glasses is being applied to Pollard's kicking prowess, but the reality is even at his worse he should be better than what we have at the moment. He is also better on defence, stronger with carries, but Manie obviously brings much sharper distribution and reading of open play. It's a blessing to have two 10's like them in the team, hopefully the coaches can find a way to get Handré match fit. We'll need both going into the knockouts.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:02 am**

Team announcement today I guess?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:32 am**

Cartman wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:02 am Team announcement today I guess?

SA Rugby

Springbok coach Jacques Nienaber will his announce his team for Sunday’s quarter-final decider on Wednesday night.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:55 am**

Are Pollard's stats not brought down slightly by actually attempting somewhat harder kicks, Vs missing 40m slightly out from posts?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:03 am**

Pollie knock them over from halfline since his schooldays.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:12 am**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 6:38 am
Blake wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:48 pm
LoveOfTheGame wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:38 pm The period before he got injured. I seem to recall he was iffy with the boot as well.
It wasn't as good as people seem to think yes.
Definitely not RWC 2019 playoff reliability which is giving a lot of people a false impression of Pollard's kicking prowess.

I just edited my previous comment; but he kicked 1 from 3 against the Aussies missing 2 early kicks in the Round 3 TRC match we lost.

I also recall him not being Morne Steyn level amazing. Leading into the Lions Series Pollard was a 75% kicker and in 2021 and 2022 his kicking wasn't great.

I'm not out to bash Pollard, or insinuate that Manie's kicking is acceptable, just pointing out that Pollard might not be the saviour everybody thinks he is going to be.
Thanks, that was my thoughts as well. Pretty much in the same camp, I think rosy tinted glasses is being applied to Pollard's kicking prowess, but the reality is even at his worse he should be better than what we have at the moment. He is also better on defence, stronger with carries, but Manie obviously brings much sharper distribution and reading of open play. It's a blessing to have two 10's like them in the team, hopefully the coaches can find a way to get Handré match fit. We'll need both going into the knockouts.

Apparently we are wrong and his kicking in his 5 matches of 2022 was quite good - 85.2% apparently.
The Aussie game that I recalled was the exception.

https://x.com/AnalystGus/status/1706596 ... 00717?s=20

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:13 am**

TheNatalShark wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:55 am Are Pollard's stats not brought down slightly by actually attempting somewhat harder kicks, Vs missing 40m slightly out from posts?

That and also lots of touchline kicks after lineout-maul tries which were a staple for the Boks.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:25 am**

Blake wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:13 am
TheNatalShark wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:55 am Are Pollard's stats not brought down slightly by actually attempting somewhat harder kicks, Vs missing 40m slightly out from posts?
That and also lots of touchline kicks after lineout-maul tries which were a staple for the Boks.

So he can kick, as long as it is the easy ones?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:40 am**

Don't base someone's kicking capabilities of stats boys. Too many variables. Pollard would nail most of the kicks dead centre that was missed by Libbok.

For instance, conversions have no set distance, according to the laws the kicker must take it where the try was scored but can move it further or closer as he pleases whereas penalties must be taken from the mark set by the ref, normally where the infringement occurred. So, for most parts penalties are harder to kick than conversions.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:43 am**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:25 am
Blake wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:13 am
TheNatalShark wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:55 am Are Pollard's stats not brought down slightly by actually attempting somewhat harder kicks, Vs missing 40m slightly out from posts?
That and also lots of touchline kicks after lineout-maul tries which were a staple for the Boks.
So he can kick, as long as it is the easy ones?

Nah, just pointing out that averages alone are very misleading things. There was another site (now defunct unfortunately) where an actuary developed a formula to calculate who the best kickers in the world were.

Here's the link to the (broken) site. The site is still up, but the data doesn't load and seems like it hasn't been updated since 2016.

We base the difficulty of a kick on the following factors – and the factors must have been proved based on past data and using the right statistical techniques:

• distance of the kick
• angle of the kick
• altitude
• side of field and foot used
• score difference (to indicate pressure)
• home/away
• 1st half/2nd half

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:48 am**

Blake wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:43 am
LoveOfTheGame wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:25 am
Blake wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:13 am

That and also lots of touchline kicks after lineout-maul tries which were a staple for the Boks.
So he can kick, as long as it is the easy ones?
Nah, just pointing out that averages alone are very misleading things. There was another site (now defunct unfortunately) where an actuary developed a formula to calculate who the best kickers in the world were.

Here's the link to the (broken) site. The site is still up, but the data doesn't load and seems like it hasn't been updated since 2016.

We base the difficulty of a kick on the following factors – and the factors must have been proved based on past data and using the right statistical techniques:

• distance of the kick
• angle of the kick
• altitude
• side of field and foot used
• score difference (to indicate pressure)
• home/away
• 1st half/2nd half

I know, I said that in jest Blade.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:18 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:32 am
Cartman wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:02 am Team announcement today I guess?
SA Rugby
Springbok coach Jacques Nienaber will his announce his team for Sunday’s quarter-final decider on Wednesday night.

Dankie

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:01 pm**

Cartman wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:18 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:32 am
Cartman wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:02 am Team announcement today I guess?
SA Rugby
Springbok coach Jacques Nienaber will his announce his team for Sunday’s quarter-final decider on Wednesday night.

Dankie

Plesier my mater!

To get back to Libboks kicking. He cost the Stormers the URC with his wayward kicking.

I thought Rudi Joubert show up his flaws. Its his 90 degree run in to kick, that cause him to hook it. So I expect that it will catch up on him. Must say his kicking out of hand has improved a lot.

Well Pollard has been a very good kicker since his u13 days. I remember in his grade 11 year, Booishaai was the big favorite to win interschools. Pollie had other ideas and play a big role for Gim to take interschools.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:17 pm**

Geez , there is a lot of shit regarding Pollard going around. To be honest I have no clue why he would want to go back into that toxic supporters environment. It's like the press is trying to discredit him

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:24 pm**

Sards wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:17 pm Geez , there is a lot of shit regarding Pollard going around. To be honest I have no clue why he would want to go back into that toxic supporters environment. It's like the press is trying to discredit him

Toxic? You basing this on the horseshit you read on Bookface again?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:00 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:24 pm
Sards wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:17 pm Geez , there is a lot of shit regarding Pollard going around. To be honest I have no clue why he would want to go back into that toxic supporters environment. It's like the press is trying to discredit him
Toxic? You basing this on the horseshit you read on Bookface again?

Where do you think everyone else reads it. Are you living in a coma. When ever I log into fb my preferred subjects pop up. Rugby is one of them.

I have to say. I find it's really turning into a racial mess.
Vokken tedious

NPR

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