What an extraordinarily gifted man he was. I remember Nick Cave telling a story about a visit he paid to Shane and there were crumples of paper in the bin and lying on the floor near it. Cave said that every one was a gem, a piece of lyrical genius and McGowan had discarded them as not good enough.
I saw the Pogues at their peak, before they got famous and too drunk, when Cait O'Riordan was still there, they were a mighty live act
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:15 pm
by Uncle fester
A listen through their catalogue will be in order this weekend.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:23 pm
by SaintK
Ahh bollocks RIP
Did bloody well to get to 65!!!
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:22 pm
by dpedin
Never really got into him nor the Pogues. Laughing at all the 'descriptions' of him on the radio - bohemian, a character, different, a scoundrel, lived life to the full, etc rather than just saying he was an alcoholic drug addict. Sadly his addictions to both meant he pissed his talent away.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:29 pm
by Line6 HXFX
Loved the whole drunken, seedy, down and out, dying on your feet.piss smelling, .rotten, broken teeth and piss headedness thing he brought to Christmas.
I mean isn't that truly what baby jebuses day is about?
What an extraordinarily gifted man he was. I remember Nick Cave telling a story about a visit he paid to Shane and there were crumples of paper in the bin and lying on the floor near it. Cave said that every one was a gem, a piece of lyrical genius and McGowan had discarded them as not good enough.
I saw the Pogues at their peak, before they got famous and too drunk, when Cait O'Riordan was still there, they were a mighty live act
Saw them at Barrowlands in December 87 during their 3 gig run - First time they played Fairytale of New York live - along with Kirsty McColl.
One of the best gigs ever - in a world of mediocracy - they (at their peak) were very special
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:55 pm
by Guy Smiley
Line6 HXFX wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:29 pm
Loved the whole drunken, seedy, down and out, dying on your feet.piss smelling, .rotten, broken teeth and piss headedness thing he brought to Christmas.
I mean isn't that truly what baby jebuses day is about?
I rarely agree with anything you write refry... but cheers to that.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:21 pm
by Gumboot
Ah damn, love the Pogues.
RIP
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:32 pm
by Uncle fester
Good ole popbitch
It seems fitting to raise a glass to the memory of Shane MacGowan, one of music's most legendary lash-hounds – but what's best to fill that glass with? An old drinking buddy of his recently told us about some of Shane's favourites.
* Dry Vermouth: "A standard tipple was dry vermouth - triple measure with a glass of ice on the side."
* Guinness and Barley Wine: "Not particularly nice, but lethal. And very warming on a winter night."
* Blackcurrant Hooch and Vodka: "In a pint glass (that was Tom the banjo player's favourite)."
* B'n'B: A while back we told you that Shane once hung out with a Popbitch reader in a beer garden on a baking hot summer's day where he drank a full pint of Baileys. Apparently it wouldn't have been straight Baileys. There'd have been a few shots of brandy in it too. Hence "B'n'B" – Baileys and Brandy.
If you can't decide which of those to go for, don't worry. You don't need to choose. Shane would usually have "three or four different drinks lined up in front of him and take sips of whatever took his fancy."
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:57 am
by Tilly Orifice
dpedin wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:22 pm
Never really got into him nor the Pogues. Laughing at all the 'descriptions' of him on the radio - bohemian, a character, different, a scoundrel, lived life to the full, etc rather than just saying he was an alcoholic drug addict. Sadly his addictions to both meant he pissed his talent away.
dpedin wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:22 pm
Never really got into him nor the Pogues. Laughing at all the 'descriptions' of him on the radio - bohemian, a character, different, a scoundrel, lived life to the full, etc rather than just saying he was an alcoholic drug addict. Sadly his addictions to both meant he pissed his talent away.
Depressing bummer of a post.
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
What an extraordinarily gifted man he was. I remember Nick Cave telling a story about a visit he paid to Shane and there were crumples of paper in the bin and lying on the floor near it. Cave said that every one was a gem, a piece of lyrical genius and McGowan had discarded them as not good enough.
I saw the Pogues at their peak, before they got famous and too drunk, when Cait O'Riordan was still there, they were a mighty live act
It means that Nick's the only one left from the 1989 Christmas Summit:
He's praised Macgowan a lot which, when you consider this is the guy who wrote the Mercy Seat and Higgs Boson Blues is high praise indeed. Whilst I'm by no means the Pogues' biggest fan, there's no denying he was an exceptional lyricist. As for the lifestyle, it's amazing he lasted as long as he did, but I'd question whether you can separate it from his work, much like Brendan Behan, on whom he modelled himself.
What an extraordinarily gifted man he was. I remember Nick Cave telling a story about a visit he paid to Shane and there were crumples of paper in the bin and lying on the floor near it. Cave said that every one was a gem, a piece of lyrical genius and McGowan had discarded them as not good enough.
I saw the Pogues at their peak, before they got famous and too drunk, when Cait O'Riordan was still there, they were a mighty live act
It means that Nick's the only one left from the 1989 Christmas Summit:
He's praised Macgowan a lot which, when you consider this is the guy who wrote the Mercy Seat and Higgs Boson Blues is high praise indeed. Whilst I'm by no means the Pogues' biggest fan, there's no denying he was an exceptional lyricist. As for the lifestyle, it's amazing he lasted as long as he did, but I'd question whether you can separate it from his work, much like Brendan Behan, on whom he modelled himself.
I loved The Fall, I saw them countless times, and The Pogues and I should love The Birthday Party, Bad Seeds etc, I just never took the time to listen to them much, I do like Cave's voice though and my wife has long since stopped saying I should give them a try, she's a big fan.
I used to see Cave around town a fair bit, even early on a Saturday morning he'd be resplendent in a sharp suit with a pink pinstripe, or driving a vintage white Merc along the seafront.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:40 am
by S/Lt_Phillips
laurent wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:10 am
A song I listened to yesterday:
What an extraordinarily gifted man he was. I remember Nick Cave telling a story about a visit he paid to Shane and there were crumples of paper in the bin and lying on the floor near it. Cave said that every one was a gem, a piece of lyrical genius and McGowan had discarded them as not good enough.
I saw the Pogues at their peak, before they got famous and too drunk, when Cait O'Riordan was still there, they were a mighty live act
It means that Nick's the only one left from the 1989 Christmas Summit:
He's praised Macgowan a lot which, when you consider this is the guy who wrote the Mercy Seat and Higgs Boson Blues is high praise indeed. Whilst I'm by no means the Pogues' biggest fan, there's no denying he was an exceptional lyricist. As for the lifestyle, it's amazing he lasted as long as he did, but I'd question whether you can separate it from his work, much like Brendan Behan, on whom he modelled himself.
I loved The Fall, I saw them countless times, and The Pogues and I should love The Birthday Party, Bad Seeds etc, I just never took the time to listen to them much, I do like Cave's voice though and my wife has long since stopped saying I should give them a try, she's a big fan.
I used to see Cave around town a fair bit, even early on a Saturday morning he'd be resplendent in a sharp suit with a pink pinstripe, or driving a vintage white Merc along the seafront.
Funnily enough one of the mums at drop off yesterday was talking about how she had been woken up at 5.30am by her kids playing Twister and went downstairs to give them a bollocking. But they were enjoying themselves so much she decided to join in and cranked up Nick Caves The Red Hand Files . I'd never really listened to him much before so spent the day at work with him on, I'm a new big fan.
On MacGowan - I had no idea he was actually a proper Londoner who sang with an Irish accent. Amazing.
What an extraordinarily gifted man he was. I remember Nick Cave telling a story about a visit he paid to Shane and there were crumples of paper in the bin and lying on the floor near it. Cave said that every one was a gem, a piece of lyrical genius and McGowan had discarded them as not good enough.
I saw the Pogues at their peak, before they got famous and too drunk, when Cait O'Riordan was still there, they were a mighty live act
It means that Nick's the only one left from the 1989 Christmas Summit:
He's praised Macgowan a lot which, when you consider this is the guy who wrote the Mercy Seat and Higgs Boson Blues is high praise indeed. Whilst I'm by no means the Pogues' biggest fan, there's no denying he was an exceptional lyricist. As for the lifestyle, it's amazing he lasted as long as he did, but I'd question whether you can separate it from his work, much like Brendan Behan, on whom he modelled himself.
I loved The Fall, I saw them countless times, and The Pogues and I should love The Birthday Party, Bad Seeds etc, I just never took the time to listen to them much, I do like Cave's voice though and my wife has long since stopped saying I should give them a try, she's a big fan.
I used to see Cave around town a fair bit, even early on a Saturday morning he'd be resplendent in a sharp suit with a pink pinstripe, or driving a vintage white Merc along the seafront.
I was once in a queue for a plane with Warren Ellis, and he was dressed exactly the same as he is on stage. Having read Nina Simone's Gum I regret not having gone over and saying hello to him. I love the Bad Seeds, came to them through Murder Ballads when I was about 16. After that pretty much anything is possible.
It's striking reading that Quietus article just how literary all three of them are. You sort of suspect that Mark E Smith would be familiar with Beckett, but it still comes as a surprise. Not seeing the Fall is one of my biggest regrets, though that's partly because a mate of mine threatened never to speak to me again if I listened to them. He then went to see them about eight times, the bastard.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:02 am
by Gumboot
I regret never having seen the Fall, and the Pogues, and the Birthday Party.
But their recorded music has provided plenty of enjoyment so can't complain.
dpedin wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:22 pm
Never really got into him nor the Pogues. Laughing at all the 'descriptions' of him on the radio - bohemian, a character, different, a scoundrel, lived life to the full, etc rather than just saying he was an alcoholic drug addict. Sadly his addictions to both meant he pissed his talent away.
Depressing bummer of a post.
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
He's praised Macgowan a lot which, when you consider this is the guy who wrote the Mercy Seat and Higgs Boson Blues is high praise indeed. Whilst I'm by no means the Pogues' biggest fan, there's no denying he was an exceptional lyricist. As for the lifestyle, it's amazing he lasted as long as he did, but I'd question whether you can separate it from his work, much like Brendan Behan, on whom he modelled himself.
I loved The Fall, I saw them countless times, and The Pogues and I should love The Birthday Party, Bad Seeds etc, I just never took the time to listen to them much, I do like Cave's voice though and my wife has long since stopped saying I should give them a try, she's a big fan.
I used to see Cave around town a fair bit, even early on a Saturday morning he'd be resplendent in a sharp suit with a pink pinstripe, or driving a vintage white Merc along the seafront.
I was once in a queue for a plane with Warren Ellis, and he was dressed exactly the same as he is on stage. Having read Nina Simone's Gum I regret not having gone over and saying hello to him. I love the Bad Seeds, came to them through Murder Ballads when I was about 16. After that pretty much anything is possible.
It's striking reading that Quietus article just how literary all three of them are. You sort of suspect that Mark E Smith would be familiar with Beckett, but it still comes as a surprise. Not seeing the Fall is one of my biggest regrets, though that's partly because a mate of mine threatened never to speak to me again if I listened to them. He then went to see them about eight times, the bastard.
I went to a Bonnie Prince Billy gig with a mate who is a huge Cave fan. Lo and behold I spied Cave standing a few metres in front of us as the roadies were getting the stage ready. I pointed him out to my mate who was completely starstruck. I eventually persuaded him that he should go and say hello. He eventually did, but I regretted it a little as that encouraged others who were holding off to go and do the same, he did seem to take it in good humour though.
Another friend knows Cave pretty well as he is in the biz and vouches for him, says he's a really genuine bloke.
Mark E Smith was someone I never wanted to meet because I think I'd be disappointed. Having said that, for an arrogant little fucker who wasn't exactly a looker, he could certainly pull.
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
Personally I think it's remarkable that he achieved what he did, considering the illnesses he faced since adolescence.
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
I don't think anyone is romanticising destroying yourself with drink, but rather the music and what it means to them.
So many creative people have tragic aspects to their lives and I think its more than fair to say that often times that creativity is borne from the tragedy, so you can't just draw a line and say McGowan would have been so much more without being a drunken mess. Maybe the drunkenness was a big part of his creativity, a muse if you will. Considering how many of his songs are about whiskey I don't think that can really be argued.
If Robin Williams hadn't been a insecure wreck of a man would he have become the comic that he was? Lou Reed's heroine addiction was a big part of his creativity. There are countless other examples (Van Gogh's craziness?).
Even outside of the direct link, while people might rightly curse the curse, I dont' think there are too many people that don't remember George Best without a great deal of empathy and love.
I don't think there are many people romanticizing the physical and mental issues these artists have had and suffered through, but at the moment of his death I think you can let people have fond thoughts without trying to take a great big shit on their grief!
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
Realism? Fuck off. It's unrealistic to assume anything about what he may or may not have achieved if he'd been a completely different person, and artist, than he actually was.
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
Realism? Fuck off. It's unrealistic to assume anything about what he may or may not have achieved if he'd been a completely different person, and artist, than he actually was.
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
I don't think anyone is romanticising destroying yourself with drink, but rather the music and what it means to them.
So many creative people have tragic aspects to their lives and I think its more than fair to say that often times that creativity is borne from the tragedy, so you can't just draw a line and say McGowan would have been so much more without being a drunken mess. Maybe the drunkenness was a big part of his creativity, a muse if you will. Considering how many of his songs are about whiskey I don't think that can really be argued.
If Robin Williams hadn't been a insecure wreck of a man would he have become the comic that he was? Lou Reed's heroine addiction was a big part of his creativity. There are countless other examples (Van Gogh's craziness?).
Even outside of the direct link, while people might rightly curse the curse, I dont' think there are too many people that don't remember George Best without a great deal of empathy and love.
I don't think there are many people romanticizing the physical and mental issues these artists have had and suffered through, but at the moment of his death I think you can let people have fond thoughts without trying to take a great big shit on their grief!
I think people make a bit much of all that. There are a ton of successful creative types who aren't wrecked in some way. Maybe it is important for some, but there's plenty for whom it isn't and the way the former group are spoken about often strays into romanticisation of the substance abusing artist or of mental illness.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:38 pm
by PornDog
different strokes for different folks no doubt, but we're straying very much into "if my aunt had balls......" territory here. They were who they were and they did what they did, any suggestion that if they didn't do what they did would equal a greater artistic productivity is a load of fruitless bollocks.
While people may look back at Best's "and the rest of it I wasted" quip with a certain admiration, or James Hunt, or Oliver Reed, Richard Burton and whomever else, we might find parts of their hell raising lives entertaining, only total fucking gobshites (or troubled artists?) would want to emulate them. They all died young and suffered terrible health issues before they did so.
I don't think admiring their artistry, and even finding a certain amount of mirth in their lifestyle, is necessarily glorifying it or any nonsense like that.
He's praised Macgowan a lot which, when you consider this is the guy who wrote the Mercy Seat and Higgs Boson Blues is high praise indeed. Whilst I'm by no means the Pogues' biggest fan, there's no denying he was an exceptional lyricist. As for the lifestyle, it's amazing he lasted as long as he did, but I'd question whether you can separate it from his work, much like Brendan Behan, on whom he modelled himself.
I loved The Fall, I saw them countless times, and The Pogues and I should love The Birthday Party, Bad Seeds etc, I just never took the time to listen to them much, I do like Cave's voice though and my wife has long since stopped saying I should give them a try, she's a big fan.
I used to see Cave around town a fair bit, even early on a Saturday morning he'd be resplendent in a sharp suit with a pink pinstripe, or driving a vintage white Merc along the seafront.
Funnily enough one of the mums at drop off yesterday was talking about how she had been woken up at 5.30am by her kids playing Twister and went downstairs to give them a bollocking. But they were enjoying themselves so much she decided to join in and cranked up Nick Caves The Red Hand Files . I'd never really listened to him much before so spent the day at work with him on, I'm a new big fan.
On MacGowan - I had no idea he was actually a proper Londoner who sang with an Irish accent. Amazing.
For an interesting look into the psyche of Mark E Smith check out the interview with the author Mick Middles.
The Fall - Unreleased Documentary on YouTube.
The book is pretty good as well.
laurent wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:10 am
A song I listened to yesterday:
a good antiwar song.
You know Macgowan didn't write that, yes?
It the best rendition by far. The folk scene particularly Irish folk music - a big influence on MacGowan - borrowed from folk traditions all over. This song was a staple in the Irish folk scene - remember my grandfather singing it in the pub. Ewan McCall was hugely influential in Irish folk and a lot of songs Irish people assume are Irish folk songs are English, Scottish or American.
I've been going through my Pogues albums over the last couple of days and, for a few reasons, I think this is still my personal favourite from the first couple of albums:
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
Well, pardon me but that's just patronising bullshit, not realism. You're throwing your personal values and judgement at someone's creative urge... we don't know what drives a particular person into the spirals of damage and self harm but we can appreciate the trip it takes us on... so many so called 'tortured artists' deliver us magnificent gems of human experience that would perhaps not be delivered without the removal of inhibition, often the product of trauma in itself.
The excesses are part and parcel of the person and their output. Whether you choose to focus on them or not is up to you. Perhaps a bit of empathy would go some way towards that.
laurent wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:10 am
A song I listened to yesterday:
a good antiwar song.
You know Macgowan didn't write that, yes?
It the best rendition by far. The folk scene particularly Irish folk music - a big influence on MacGowan - borrowed from folk traditions all over. This song was a staple in the Irish folk scene - remember my grandfather singing it in the pub. Ewan McCall was hugely influential in Irish folk and a lot of songs Irish people assume are Irish folk songs are English, Scottish or American.
I've been going through my Pogues albums over the last couple of days and, for a few reasons, I think this is still my personal favourite from the first couple of albums:
Eric Bogle wrote that Waltzing Matilda song, he also wrote Willie McBride or Green Fields of France or No Man's land, depending on the title you like. It's often thought of as an Irish song because of the Fureys making a bit of a hit of it.
MacGowan's version of Waltzing is the best I've heard, bar a guy I know who isn't a professional so no one will have heard of him. The local fishermen in my town were often the best singers I've heard, including on Ewan MacColl songs
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:22 pm
by derriz
Tichtheid wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:33 pm
Eric Bogle wrote that Waltzing Matilda song, he also wrote Willie McBride or Green Fields of France or No Man's land, depending on the title you like. It's often thought of as an Irish song because of the Fureys making a bit of a hit of it.
MacGowan's version of Waltzing is the best I've heard, bar a guy I know who isn't a professional so no one will have heard of him. The local fishermen in my town were often the best singers I've heard, including on Ewan MacColl songs
That's interesting, I wasn't aware that Bogle wrote Green Fields of France also - had him down as a kind of one-hit-songwriting-wonder - but I still prefer Waltzing by far. Possibly because the former is so associated with the Fureys who I've never really liked - Finbar's voice is torture to me.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:25 pm
by Guy Smiley
Waltzing Matilda is based on a poem written by Banjo Patterson in 1895. It has a chequered history but there's little doubting that it became an unofficial anthem of Australia over the course of a century or so.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:58 pm
by Gumboot
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:25 pm
Waltzing Matilda is based on a poem written by Banjo Patterson in 1895. It has a chequered history but there's little doubting that it became an unofficial anthem of Australia over the course of a century or so.
Didn't there use to be a guy in an Akubra with a guitar singing WM along the touchline before Wallabies home tests...maybe a decade or two back?
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:25 pm
Waltzing Matilda is based on a poem written by Banjo Patterson in 1895. It has a chequered history but there's little doubting that it became an unofficial anthem of Australia over the course of a century or so.
Didn't there use to be a guy in an Akubra with a guitar singing WM along the touchline before Wallabies home tests...maybe a decade or two back?
yeah, John Williamson.
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:06 am
by Tichtheid
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:25 pm
Waltzing Matilda is based on a poem written by Banjo Patterson in 1895. It has a chequered history but there's little doubting that it became an unofficial anthem of Australia over the course of a century or so.
Yeah, but the song we were talking about only mentions the Waltzing Matilda song in passing
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:25 pm
Waltzing Matilda is based on a poem written by Banjo Patterson in 1895. It has a chequered history but there's little doubting that it became an unofficial anthem of Australia over the course of a century or so.
Yeah, but the song we were talking about only mentions the Waltzing Matilda song in passing
Aye... but it draws heavily on the original and I think it's fair to suggest it strives to join Patterson's original as a yearning sort of Australian anthem. The song speaks of 'setting sail for Gallipoli', a form of Holy Grail for Australian songwriters of a certain time.
Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:25 pm
Waltzing Matilda is based on a poem written by Banjo Patterson in 1895. It has a chequered history but there's little doubting that it became an unofficial anthem of Australia over the course of a century or so.
Yeah, but the song we were talking about only mentions the Waltzing Matilda song in passing
Aye... but it draws heavily on the original and I think it's fair to suggest it strives to join Patterson's original as a yearning sort of Australian anthem. The song speaks of 'setting sail for Gallipoli', a form of Holy Grail for Australian songwriters of a certain time.
I haven't listened to the Eric Bogle song for a long time, from memory it is very much an anti-war song, just like Green Fields of France. The mention of Waltzing Matilda is when the band plays that as the wounded and crippled from the war hobble down the gang plank, and the waiting public are shocked at what has happened to their loved ones. To be honest they could have played Dog save the Queen and it wouldn't have altered the song in question
Re: Shane Macgowan.....goooooone
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:07 am
by Guy Smiley
It's packed with references to Australia...
Now when I was a young man, I carried me pack
And I lived the free life of the rover From the Murray's green basin to the dusty outback
Well, I waltzed my Matilda all over
Then in 1915, my country said "son
It's time you stopped rambling, there's work to be done"
So they gave me a tin hat, and they gave me a gun
And they marched me away to the war
And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As the ship pulled away from the quay
And amidst all the cheers, the flag-waving and tears We sailed off for Gallipoli
And how well I remember that terrible day
How our blood stained the sand and the water
And of how in that hell that they called Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter
Johnny Turk, he was waiting, he'd primed himself well
He showered us with bullets and he rained us with shell
And in five minutes flat, he'd blown us all to hell Nearly blew us right back to Australia
But the band played Waltzing Matilda
When we stopped to bury our slain
We buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs
Then we started all over again
And those that were left, well we tried to survive
In that mad world of blood, death and fire
And for ten weary weeks, I kept myself alive
Though around me the corpses piled higher
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head
And when I woke up in me hospital bed
And saw what it had done, well I wished I was dead
Never knew there was worse things than dyin'
For I'll go no more waltzing Matilda
All around the green bush far and free
To hump tent and pegs, a man needs both legs
No more waltzing Matilda for me
So they gathered the crippled, the wounded, the maimed And they shipped us back home to Australia
The legless, the armless, the blind, the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place where me legs used to be
And thanked Christ there was nobody waiting for me
To grieve, to mourn, and to pity
He will be remembered for a lot of things, his songwriting foremost.
Everyone knows he was a waster, but it's ridiculous to suggest he wasted his talent.
He wasted his talent! Just think what he might have achieved in writing and performing if he wasn't off his head on drugs and alcohol for almost all of his adult life. I just don't get the glorification and romanticizing of what are essentially addictions issues and the fun making of all the drug and drink cocktails he was pushing into his body. Sure he did some fantastic things when he was vaguely aware of what he was doing but there is no way on this earth did he get anywhere near close to achieving what he could have done if he wasn't an alcoholic drug addict. Sorry if my realism is upsetting a few folks but it's the truth. Let's not ignore the damage drink and drugs did on him and the limiting factor it had on him achieving what he could have done otherwise.
Well, pardon me but that's just patronising bullshit, not realism. You're throwing your personal values and judgement at someone's creative urge... we don't know what drives a particular person into the spirals of damage and self harm but we can appreciate the trip it takes us on... so many so called 'tortured artists' deliver us magnificent gems of human experience that would perhaps not be delivered without the removal of inhibition, often the product of trauma in itself.
The excesses are part and parcel of the person and their output. Whether you choose to focus on them or not is up to you. Perhaps a bit of empathy would go some way towards that.
Having had relatives who have succumbed to both alcohol and drug addiction I know exactly what I am talking about and, due to real life personal experience, I am more empathetic to addicts than most so don't give me that bullshit. Addiction meant neither of them achieved in their lives what they should have and along the way destroyed most of what they had previous achieved. It is not patronizing bullshit but the reality of addiction to harmful substances. To link 'creative urges' to the need to be addicted to drugs or alcohol is just complete and utter nonsense. 'Tortured artists' is just such a pile of bullshit, he was an alcoholic drug addict plain and simple and to try and suggest either of these substances helped him deliver work reflecting 'magnificent gems of human experience' is just a pile of romanticized uninformed crap. Yes he probably had mental health issues and they could well have been treated with help and support and possibly these led to his addictions, however we will never know. However this sort of romanticized nonsense that suggests to those more vulnerable that drugs and alcohol are in anyway 'good in releasing' the creative output is dangerous and probably leads some into addiction. Addiction is a serious health issue and needs to be seen and treated as such, it is not opening the box to someone's creative ability nor is it the deliverer of a 'tortured artist'. To suggest his addictions led to him doing work he wouldn't otherwise have done is again just plain bullshit and I stand by my assertion that all they did was limit his output and stopped him achieving his full potential!
Lets stop using euphemisms like 'bohemian', 'he lived life to the full', a 'tortured artist', 'played by his own rules', etc and making fun of his alcoholic cocktails and drug consumption - he was an alcoholic drug addict whose life ultimately was ruined and then ended early due to his addictions and whose innate musical and writing ability was limited by his consumption of alcohol and drugs.
. I'd never really listened to him much before so spent the day at work with him on, I'm a new big fan.