A place where escape goats go to play
https://www.notplanetrugby.com/
The Tories were feckin despicable in dealing with this, saying all the right things in public but behind the scenes deliberately kicking it into the long grass and complete failure to tackle the issues so as not to piss off their property owning mates. It was almost like all those deaths of working class people were just an unfortunate by product of their mates making loads of cash building, owning, renting out crap dangerous housing. For this alone the likes of Gove should never darken public life ever again!epwc wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:57 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8er93k051xo
Fuck all
Still 1000s of affected buildings, no sensible change to regs
While regs can always be improved (or removed if no longer required and covered elsewhere). According to the report quoted it was a non-compliant so changing the regs would just make it and similar buildings more non-compliant. We always seem to go for new laws or new regs because that is easy compared to actually enforcing existing ones. You just end up layering requirements and it becomes a mess.epwc wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:57 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8er93k051xo
Fuck all
Still 1000s of affected buildings, no sensible change to regs
A report into the events of the fire published in 2019 concluded that the tower's cladding did not comply with building regulations and was the main reason for the rapid spread of the blaze. The final report into Grenfell is due to be published next week.
A wonder of the modern age is one technically competent person sitting under 8 managers while what you need is 1 manager, 1 team admin person and 5 technical experts.epwc wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 11:57 am When I say regs it's the whole regulatory framework. There are insufficient skills to interrogate a scheme properly for compliance, and monitoring? Don't eve get me started.
Yep. Just had a meeting with Passive House Trust and Friends of the Earth about lobbying government for change. I think we were all agreed that the lack of skills throughout the system (architects, planning, regs, contractors, supply chain) is profound, and that even if by some miracle government were to mandate Passivhaus from say 2030 it would be impossible to implement.petej wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:18 pmA wonder of the modern age is one technically competent person sitting under 8 managers while what you need is 1 manager, 1 team admin person and 5 technical experts.
The architects I spoke to on holiday who worked on boxes (houses) were very much of the opinion that the large housebuilders had no interest in it all but it wasn't a problem for them to design passive houses. Should certainly make it standard for new public buildings. Need to kick the large house builders in the right direction. What about 50% 2030 and 100% 2035?epwc wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:25 pmYep. Just had a meeting with Passive House Trust and Friends of the Earth about lobbying government for change. I think we were all agreed that the lack of skills throughout the system (architects, planning, regs, contractors, supply chain) is profound, and that even if by some miracle government were to mandate Passivhaus from say 2030 it would be impossible to implement.petej wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:18 pmA wonder of the modern age is one technically competent person sitting under 8 managers while what you need is 1 manager, 1 team admin person and 5 technical experts.
It's a pile of shit, we need more accreditation, more education, more investment in the regulatory framework.
epwc wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:34 pm The SNP had it as part of their strategy but it's been taken out. Ideally we're looking for Scotland to reinstate Passive House as part of their building regs so there's a start in a smaller market, proof of concept.
Exeter had gone all passive house for their council homes, but the lady in charge of that programme is now at Waltham Forest and and Exeter have stepped back even though some units spent £0 on heating in 5 years!
Architects? Don't make me laugh, most "normal" architects don't give a shit about things like overheating, thermal bridging etc.
The Grenfell Tower fire that killed 72 people was the result of "dishonest" companies, successive governments, and a lack of strategy by the fire service, a scathing report concludes
All deaths were avoidable, inquiry chair Martin Moore-Bick says, as he delivers his final statement seven years after the fire - press watch live above
The report says a cladding product manufacturer “deliberately concealed” fire risks, while coalition and Conservative governments “ignored, delayed or disregarded” concerns
I don't know if it's just the bias in the Beebs summary, or their summary reflects the report accurately, but I suspect the former; but their summary goes out of it's way to push the blame on the companies, architects & even the poor fucking firefighters, & deflect from the one group who actually are responsible for the safety of citizens ; the elected fucking officials !!!!tabascoboy wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:42 amThe Grenfell Tower fire that killed 72 people was the result of "dishonest" companies, successive governments, and a lack of strategy by the fire service, a scathing report concludes
All deaths were avoidable, inquiry chair Martin Moore-Bick says, as he delivers his final statement seven years after the fire - press watch live above
The report says a cladding product manufacturer “deliberately concealed” fire risks, while coalition and Conservative governments “ignored, delayed or disregarded” concerns
There are so many others criticised that you've just got to hope that the CPS have enough to start proceedings of perjury or corporate mansluaghter on the bastards who were involved.Eric Pickles, Cameron’s housing secretary until 2015, had “enthusiastically supported” the prime minister’s drive to slash regulations and it dominated his department’s thinking to the extent that matters affecting fire safety and risk to life “were ignored, delayed or disregarded”, the inquiry concluded.
Pickles also failed to act on a coroner’s 2013 recommendation to tighten up fire safety regulations after a cladding fire at Lakanal House, another London council block, killed six people. It was “not treated with any sense of urgency”, the inquiry found and the tightening up had not happened by the time Grenfell went up in flames on 14 June 2017.
In cross-examination under oath, Pickles vehemently insisted the anti-red tape drive had not covered building regulations. But the inquiry said this evidence was “flatly contradicted by that of his officials and by the contemporaneous documents”.
All 72 deaths in the Grenfell fire were "avoidable" and people living there were "badly failed" by those responsible for their safety and that of the tower
Moore-Bick said they don't all bear the same level of responsibility, adding that their failings can be attributed in most cases to "incompetence" and others to "dishonesty and greed"
The government and others failed to give proper consideration to the dangers of some kinds of cladding over decades, he added
Manufacturers of the cladding engaged in "systematic dishonesty", the chariman said, also accusing them of misleading customers about their safety
The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea's tenant management organisation "manipulated" an appointment process for its favoured architect, who had no experience of installing cladding on high-rise buildings
There was a "chronic lack" of leadership at the London Fire Brigade, including too much emphasis on process and an "attitude of complacency"
Quote from mateyboy at Kingspan:SaintK wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:11 am Whilst successive governments have been panned, Cameron's government comes in for particular crititicism for its failure to strengthen fire regulations while it was engaged in "a bonfire of red tape and building regulations"
Eric Pickles who made a complete arse of himself at the enquiry comes in for particular criticismThere are so many others criticised that you've just got to hope that the CPS have enough to start proceedings of perjury or corporate mansluaghter on the bastards who were involved.Eric Pickles, Cameron’s housing secretary until 2015, had “enthusiastically supported” the prime minister’s drive to slash regulations and it dominated his department’s thinking to the extent that matters affecting fire safety and risk to life “were ignored, delayed or disregarded”, the inquiry concluded.
Pickles also failed to act on a coroner’s 2013 recommendation to tighten up fire safety regulations after a cladding fire at Lakanal House, another London council block, killed six people. It was “not treated with any sense of urgency”, the inquiry found and the tightening up had not happened by the time Grenfell went up in flames on 14 June 2017.
In cross-examination under oath, Pickles vehemently insisted the anti-red tape drive had not covered building regulations. But the inquiry said this evidence was “flatly contradicted by that of his officials and by the contemporaneous documents”.
This, in relation to genuine safety concerns over a product they knew was not as safe as advertised. Utterly contemptible.When a company called Wintech raised questions about fire safety, Philip Heath, a senior manager at Kingspan, wrote in an email: “Wintech can go fuck themselves, and if they are not careful we’ll sue the a#se off them.”
You've got to think that some of the stuff about deliberately misleading statements on safety fits squarely into corporate manslaughterSaintK wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:11 am Whilst successive governments have been panned, Cameron's government comes in for particular crititicism for its failure to strengthen fire regulations while it was engaged in "a bonfire of red tape and building regulations"
Eric Pickles who made a complete arse of himself at the enquiry comes in for particular criticismThere are so many others criticised that you've just got to hope that the CPS have enough to start proceedings of perjury or corporate mansluaghter on the bastards who were involved.Eric Pickles, Cameron’s housing secretary until 2015, had “enthusiastically supported” the prime minister’s drive to slash regulations and it dominated his department’s thinking to the extent that matters affecting fire safety and risk to life “were ignored, delayed or disregarded”, the inquiry concluded.
Pickles also failed to act on a coroner’s 2013 recommendation to tighten up fire safety regulations after a cladding fire at Lakanal House, another London council block, killed six people. It was “not treated with any sense of urgency”, the inquiry found and the tightening up had not happened by the time Grenfell went up in flames on 14 June 2017.
In cross-examination under oath, Pickles vehemently insisted the anti-red tape drive had not covered building regulations. But the inquiry said this evidence was “flatly contradicted by that of his officials and by the contemporaneous documents”.
Has to beBiffer wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 1:07 pmYou've got to think that some of the stuff about deliberately misleading statements on safety fits squarely into corporate manslaughter
Ten fire engines and about 70 firefighters are tackling a blaze at two flats in a tower block in Catford, the London fire brigade (LFB) has said.
The fire, on the ninth and 10th floor of the block, comes on the day that a damning report was published into the causes of the fire at Grenfell Tower, which killed 72 people.
No chance I'm afraid.
Because it's fine when it's used between two leafs of blockwork, or between a block & outer brick leaf, but it's lethal if you put it inside a cosmetic metal layer, as there isn't enough fire protection to stop the insulation catching fire, & then the panels act like a chimney & fire races up it.Sandstorm wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:30 pm I don’t understand why anyone would make and sell a flammable insulation panel.
Because it is cheap. Every product you buy and use is made of the cheapest stuff that they can get away with and the cheapest processing you can get away with.Sandstorm wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:30 pm I don’t understand why anyone would make and sell a flammable insulation panel.
It's a norm at a public inquiry that the police/CPS can't use what you testify to. That said it is something of a heads up to the police if they can figure out a way to discover the same by alternative meansepwc wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 3:21 pm All the main suppliers/contractors signed some sort of immunity waiver before they testified didn't they?
I'm not sure how people can live with themselves having contributed so directly to the Grenfell disaster! No amount of money or share options or whatever financial reward I made would help me get to sleep every night if I thought I have caused such pain and suffering on so many poor people. Perhaps these bastards have no soul or no conscious?epwc wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:15 am This fellas a piece of work:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8n7m8v9rqo
This bit is troubling:
"No 10 said there will be a review into whether any of the companies still have a sub-contracted role in government supply chains.
Guidance will be issued to public-sector organisations to exclude them where necessary."
So no guidance has been issued yet?
Corporate empathy is in short supply.dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:18 am
I'm not sure how people can live with themselves having contributed so directly to the Grenfell disaster! No amount of money or share options or whatever financial reward I made would help me get to sleep every night if I thought I have caused such pain and suffering on so many poor people. Perhaps these bastards have no soul or no conscious?
As per Liz Truss, it's all someone else's fault.dpedin wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:18 amI'm not sure how people can live with themselves having contributed so directly to the Grenfell disaster! No amount of money or share options or whatever financial reward I made would help me get to sleep every night if I thought I have caused such pain and suffering on so many poor people. Perhaps these bastards have no soul or no conscious?epwc wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:15 am This fellas a piece of work:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8n7m8v9rqo
This bit is troubling:
"No 10 said there will be a review into whether any of the companies still have a sub-contracted role in government supply chains.
Guidance will be issued to public-sector organisations to exclude them where necessary."
So no guidance has been issued yet?
Corporate manslaughter is such an easy crime to prove. You literally have people here confessing that they were knowingly selling material illegally because they knew it was a risk to safety. The emails are enough to get a conviction.epwc wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:15 am This fellas a piece of work:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8n7m8v9rqo
This bit is troubling:
"No 10 said there will be a review into whether any of the companies still have a sub-contracted role in government supply chains.
Guidance will be issued to public-sector organisations to exclude them where necessary."
So no guidance has been issued yet?
Makes a change from French burning British lambs I supposeepwc wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:15 am This fellas a piece of work:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8n7m8v9rqo
This bit is troubling:
"No 10 said there will be a review into whether any of the companies still have a sub-contracted role in government supply chains.
Guidance will be issued to public-sector organisations to exclude them where necessary."
So no guidance has been issued yet?
Good luck to the poor bastard going through those supply chains.epwc wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:15 am This fellas a piece of work:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8n7m8v9rqo
This bit is troubling:
"No 10 said there will be a review into whether any of the companies still have a sub-contracted role in government supply chains.
Guidance will be issued to public-sector organisations to exclude them where necessary."
So no guidance has been issued yet?