NPR

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4glr85l2ldt



No landing gear from the footage.

That's some scary speed they're carrying for a wheels up landing. Reports are that it 'overshot' the runway. One official is quoted suggesting a bird strike... I wonder if the flight crew were taken out by a rogue goose?

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:34 am That's some scary speed they're carrying for a wheels up landing. Reports are that it 'overshot' the runway. One official is quoted suggesting a bird strike... I wonder if the flight crew were taken out by a rogue goose?

It’s possible. Landing that fast without the gear down suggests someone other than the pilots were trying to bring it in? Although the cockpit windows do look intact…..

KLM 737 made an emergency landing tonight after hydraulic failure…

https://www.arise.tv/klm-flight-makes-e ... ilure/amp/

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:34 am That's some scary speed they're carrying for a wheels up landing. Reports are that it 'overshot' the runway. One official is quoted suggesting a bird strike... I wonder if the flight crew were taken out by a rogue goose?

Unlikely. Those windscreens are designed to take an enormous amount of impact.

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 10:47 am

Interesting bit for me: flaps were working on approach (if FR24 telemetry is correct) because ground speed was only 150 knots. WTF happened to lose all hydraulics and why was no manual intervention evident on the landing gear?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 11:17 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 10:47 am

Interesting bit for me: flaps were working on approach (if FR24 telemetry is correct) because ground speed was only 150 knots. WTF happened to lose all hydraulics and why was no manual intervention evident on the landing gear?

Maybe the fire caused the electronics to tell the pilots the wheels were down when if fact they weren’t?

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:27 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 11:17 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 10:47 am

Interesting bit for me: flaps were working on approach (if FR24 telemetry is correct) because ground speed was only 150 knots. WTF happened to lose all hydraulics and why was no manual intervention evident on the landing gear?

Maybe the fire caused the electronics to tell the pilots the wheels were down when if fact they weren’t?

More likely they had a hundred different annunciators going in the cockpit, & they missed the pretty important one telling them their gear wasn't down.

There was a case of this during Covid in Pakistan, where they were goofing off in the cockpit, & ended up having to do a very non-standard approach, didn't follow their checklists, & came in with their gear up despite alarms warning them of this fact; did a scratch & go, & crashed shortly after they'd destroyed their engines on the runway

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:27 pm Maybe the fire caused the electronics to tell the pilots the wheels were down when if fact they weren’t?

I know I'm old school on stuff like this, but maybe look?

I was always struck by the fact that in the Kegworth crash, the crew didn't even look to see which engine was damaged.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 6:00 pm I know I'm old school on stuff like this, but maybe look?

How about not stating the first dumb shit idea that pops into your head about stuff you clearly know fuck all about?

And no, "old school" ignorance doesn't absolve you of shit

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 6:00 pm I know I'm old school on stuff like this, but maybe look?

How about not stating the first dumb shit idea that pops into your head about stuff you clearly know fuck all about?

And no, "old school" ignorance doesn't absolve you of shit

Whoa, look out, here's Mr YouTube

Might be "Mr read the news reports"

Christian Beckert, a flight safety expert and Lufthansa pilot, said the video footage suggested that aside from the reversers, most of the plane’s braking systems were not activated, creating a “big problem” and a fast landing.

Beckert said a bird strike was unlikely to have damaged the landing gear while it was still up, and that if it had happened when it was down, it would have been hard to raise again.

“It’s really, really very rare and very unusual not to lower the gear, because there are independent systems where we can lower the gear with an alternate system,” he said.

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:33 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 6:00 pm I know I'm old school on stuff like this, but maybe look?

How about not stating the first dumb shit idea that pops into your head about stuff you clearly know fuck all about?

And no, "old school" ignorance doesn't absolve you of shit

Whoa, look out, here's Mr YouTube

Yeah, what would a guy who's actually fucking flown the plane know? Just look out window

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:36 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:33 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:29 pm
How about not stating the first dumb shit idea that pops into your head about stuff you clearly know fuck all about?

And no, "old school" ignorance doesn't absolve you of shit

Whoa, look out, here's Mr YouTube

Yeah, what would a guy who's actually fucking flown the plane know? Just look out window

Maybe try being less of an arsehole

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:39 pmMaybe try being less of an arsehole

No thanks Dr Phil

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 6:00 pm I know I'm old school on stuff like this, but maybe look?

How about not stating the first dumb shit idea that pops into your head about stuff you clearly know fuck all about?

And no, "old school" ignorance doesn't absolve you of shit

I'd suggest I know a tad more about this stuff than you do, but whatever Mr Angry.

JM2K6 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:36 pm Might be "Mr read the news reports"

Christian Beckert, a flight safety expert and Lufthansa pilot, said the video footage suggested that aside from the reversers, most of the plane’s braking systems were not activated, creating a “big problem” and a fast landing.

Beckert said a bird strike was unlikely to have damaged the landing gear while it was still up, and that if it had happened when it was down, it would have been hard to raise again.

“It’s really, really very rare and very unusual not to lower the gear, because there are independent systems where we can lower the gear with an alternate system,” he said.

All modern jets have manual ways to drop the gear: basically using gravity as a last resort. It's not quick, but does work.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:13 am I'd suggest I know a tad more about this stuff than you do, but whatever Mr Angry.

Brilliant! Please explain how the pilots could visually verify the deployment of the landing gear in a 737-800?

A very good point made by Juan that the crew immediately came back in after the bird strike, only 7-8 mins later, & didn't give themselves enough time to go thru their checklists

Is it fair to say that this one might not be on Boeing?

Uncle fester wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:36 pm Is it fair to say that this one might not be on Boeing?

I'd say at the moment it looks more likely a failure by the crew to deal with a relatively simple emergency, combined with a very unforgiving airport architecture.

Uncle fester wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:36 pm Is it fair to say that this one might not be on Boeing?

I cannot think there are any other plausible solutions than
1) Pilot error. There looks like no effort to deploy landing gear and highly questionable decision to land with no flaps, no spoilers and no landing gear if you knew i.e. I'd prefer to take my chances with a ditch.
2) It's yet another catastrophic Boeing f**k up in systems and controls.

Uncle fester wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:36 pm Is it fair to say that this one might not be on Boeing?

I really can’t see how this one is on them given the evidence available

Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:58 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:13 am I'd suggest I know a tad more about this stuff than you do, but whatever Mr Angry.

Brilliant! Please explain how the pilots could visually verify the deployment of the landing gear in a 737-800?

No flaps or spoilers either? Hard to miss those.

You ever heard of a fly pass check? Anyway, only a deaf person would not hear the clunk of landing gear or not notice the change in noise and experienced pilots should have noticed the absence of immediate drag.

You used the term "flown". One of my very closest friends is a retired senior captain and trainer for a well known airline. In his spare time, he owned and flew a Kitfox: tricky bugger. Kinda the flying equivalent of a Caterham 7. He regularly got asked/teased why when he flew god knows how many hours during his job, he chose to fly in his spare time too. His answer, and it was serious, was that he didn't fly in his job. That modern passenger jets are complex machines which require a high amount of training to operate but very little actual flying.

And that was all well and good until things went wrong badly and quickly because
- then, most of these guys had forgotten how to fly
- and the ludicrously long and complex manuals were of no use in a rapid emergency: you simply did not have time to get to the flowchart on p 1264 to see what Boeing advised (even if it wasn't a lie)
- worse, the amount of systems to deal with can lead to confusion e.g. 447 where even with a stall warning (the most basic of "you need to pay f**king attention now" alerts), the crew still kept pulling back on the stick..... and ignored the most important instrument of all = the AI.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 1:40 pm No flaps or spoilers either? Hard to miss those.

You ever heard of a fly pass check? Anyway, only a deaf person would not hear the clunk of landing gear or not notice the change in noise and experienced pilots should have noticed the absence of immediate drag.

Sorry my fault, forgot english isn't you first language... I took it literally when you said pilot should "maybe look" to see if the wheels are down, not listen or infer from other systems.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 6:00 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:27 pm Maybe the fire caused the electronics to tell the pilots the wheels were down when if fact they weren’t?

I know I'm old school on stuff like this, but maybe look?

TB63 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:59 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 2:42 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 1:40 pm No flaps or spoilers either? Hard to miss those.

You ever heard of a fly pass check? Anyway, only a deaf person would not hear the clunk of landing gear or not notice the change in noise and experienced pilots should have noticed the absence of immediate drag.

Sorry my fault, forgot english isn't you first language... I took it literally when you said pilot should "maybe look" to see if the wheels are down, not listen or infer from other systems.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 6:00 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:27 pm Maybe the fire caused the electronics to tell the pilots the wheels were down when if fact they weren’t?

I know I'm old school on stuff like this, but maybe look?

Sorry, I forgot: you only read the parts of a post that suit your narrative.

Odd thread topic for a shitfight tbf


Anyhows, reminds me of this

Yeeb wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:30 pm Odd thread topic for a shitfight tbf

Even more so to target me!

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:30 pm Odd thread topic for a shitfight tbf

Even more so to target me!

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:30 pm Odd thread topic for a shitfight tbf

Even more so to target me!

That’s true Dr Bashir, you are one of the least cunty people I’ve met on here.
Not an especially high bar, granted

Yeeb wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:30 pm Odd thread topic for a shitfight tbf

Even more so to target me!

That’s true Dr Bashir, you are one of the least cunty people I’ve met on here.
Not an especially high bar, granted

You've clearly never read his Finn Russell thread.

Blackmac wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2024 12:21 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:31 pm
Even more so to target me!

That’s true Dr Bashir, you are one of the least cunty people I’ve met on here.
Not an especially high bar, granted

You've clearly never read his Finn Russell thread.

Blackmac wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2024 12:21 pm You've clearly never read his Finn Russell thread.

Not sure how calling out Flake for being flaky qualifies. But then you Scots do get all precious over him. Not so on Hogg these days I note.

Blackmac wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2024 12:21 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:29 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:31 pm
Even more so to target me!

That’s true Dr Bashir, you are one of the least cunty people I’ve met on here.
Not an especially high bar, granted

You've clearly never read his Finn Russell thread.

Reports stating a power issue has resulted in Zero data for the last 4 minutes of flight for both the Data and Voice recorder.

Insane_Homer wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:34 pm Reports stating a power issue has resulted in Zero data for the last 4 minutes of flight for both the Data and Voice recorder.

Boeing in their infinite wisdom decided that the CVR & FDR weren't critical systems, & so they weren't connected to the battery pack that powers stuff in the event of a critical power loss.

Handy for them though, as this means we'll never know what the crew were hearing, & doing for those critical minutes after the bird strike & the mayday, so the crew will probably carry the can, & not Boeing.