NPR

Who was the 1st around the corner kicker for the All Blacks?

Exillt wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:41 am Who was the 1st around the corner kicker for the All Blacks?

No idea. Hewson?

Was Doug Rollerson round the corner?
Its a toughie

Fox?

It would have been in the 1970s, after Barry John had bossed it with the Lions in 1971. My mind tells me Bob Burgess but I am not at all certain.

Tried some searching and this bit was interesting - from 1959 between Lions and Maori All Blacks

The brilliant Ken Scotland, playing for the first time at half-back, the first of the round the corner goal-kickers

It was first credited to Wilf Wooler in the 1930s.

But I never found the answer to the question

I know McCormick was straight through and 10 years after him was Hewson and Rolleson who were round-the-corner but there may have been earlier ones.

Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:26 pm Tried some searching and this bit was interesting - from 1959 between Lions and Maori All Blacks

The brilliant Ken Scotland, playing for the first time at half-back, the first of the round the corner goal-kickers

It was first credited to Wilf Wooler in the 1930s.

But I never found the answer to the question

I know McCormick was straight through and 10 years after him was Hewson and Rolleson who were round-the-corner but there may have been earlier ones.

Prior to Rollerson, McCormick's goalkicking successors were Mains, Morris, Karam, Lendrum, Williams, Going (S), Wilson (B), McKechnie, Seear, Wilson (R), and Codlin. Those I can remember (Mains, Karam, Williams, McKechnie, Seear, and both Wilsons) were all toe-bashers. I'm pretty sure the others were too, with the possible exceptions of Going and Codlin (who I don't remember at all — 1980 was a big drinking year...)

Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:26 pm Tried some searching and this bit was interesting - from 1959 between Lions and Maori All Blacks

The brilliant Ken Scotland, playing for the first time at half-back, the first of the round the corner goal-kickers

It was first credited to Wilf Wooler in the 1930s.

But I never found the answer to the question

I know McCormick was straight through and 10 years after him was Hewson and Rolleson who were round-the-corner but there may have been earlier ones.

Yep I like you NZer, I was thinking Fergie was last straight through kicker I remember for sure, but pretty sure it wouldn't of been until mid 70s when it took off in NZ.

Certain Navigator wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:49 pm

Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:26 pm Tried some searching and this bit was interesting - from 1959 between Lions and Maori All Blacks

The brilliant Ken Scotland, playing for the first time at half-back, the first of the round the corner goal-kickers

It was first credited to Wilf Wooler in the 1930s.

But I never found the answer to the question

I know McCormick was straight through and 10 years after him was Hewson and Rolleson who were round-the-corner but there may have been earlier ones.

Prior to Rollerson, McCormick's goalkicking successors were Mains, Morris, Karam, Lendrum, Williams, Going (S), Wilson (B), McKechnie, Seear, Wilson (R), and Codlin. Those I can remember (Mains, Karam, Williams, McKechnie, Seear, and both Wilsons) were all toe-bashers. I'm pretty sure the others were too, with the possible exceptions of Going and Codlin (who I don't remember at all — 1980 was a big drinking year...)

Yep good point, McKecnie was a toey, Seear was to, but he only kicked once in test rugby, I beginning to think it was Hewson?

Dan54 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:03 pm

Certain Navigator wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:49 pm

Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:26 pm Tried some searching and this bit was interesting - from 1959 between Lions and Maori All Blacks





But I never found the answer to the question

I know McCormick was straight through and 10 years after him was Hewson and Rolleson who were round-the-corner but there may have been earlier ones.

Prior to Rollerson, McCormick's goalkicking successors were Mains, Morris, Karam, Lendrum, Williams, Going (S), Wilson (B), McKechnie, Seear, Wilson (R), and Codlin. Those I can remember (Mains, Karam, Williams, McKechnie, Seear, and both Wilsons) were all toe-bashers. I'm pretty sure the others were too, with the possible exceptions of Going and Codlin (who I don't remember at all — 1980 was a big drinking year...)

Yep good point, McKecnie was a toey, Seear was to, but he only kicked once in test rugby, I beginning to think it was Hewson?

Didn't Karam give round the corner a crack?

Batty also kicked in the 70's, but I'm pretty sure he was a toe kicker.

Ted. wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:01 pm

Dan54 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:03 pm

Certain Navigator wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:49 pm
Prior to Rollerson, McCormick's goalkicking successors were Mains, Morris, Karam, Lendrum, Williams, Going (S), Wilson (B), McKechnie, Seear, Wilson (R), and Codlin. Those I can remember (Mains, Karam, Williams, McKechnie, Seear, and both Wilsons) were all toe-bashers. I'm pretty sure the others were too, with the possible exceptions of Going and Codlin (who I don't remember at all — 1980 was a big drinking year...)

Yep good point, McKecnie was a toey, Seear was to, but he only kicked once in test rugby, I beginning to think it was Hewson?

Didn't Karam give round the corner a crack?

Batty also kicked in the 70's, but I'm pretty sure he was a toe kicker.

Hell you got better memory than me Teds, I really would of thought Karam kicked the 'proper'way. I seem to recall him being straight through when he played for the Nua, but he may of changed after seeing Barry John in 71 Lion's tour, I pretty sure I never seen NZ kickers go around corner before he came over, and I thought it took a few years to catch on here.

Soon as I saw the thread title my thought went to Ken Scotland of the '59 Lions who freaked us all out with his place-kick style..

It was with a round-the-corner that Scotland the bas-ket snatched away at the death what would have been one of the truly great rugby comebacks ... our near-40 minutes of second-half delirium ending in angst.

Why not contact the museum? If they don't have the answer, would they have the footage? It'd be a fun thing to discover if you have access to film!

was it not a frenchman who started this?

I know we were all kicking "round the corner" in the early 70s at school in NZ... and I'm pretty sure there were All Blacks at the time doing it...

Grandpa wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:14 pm I know we were all kicking "round the corner" in the early 70s at school in NZ... and I'm pretty sure there were All Blacks at the time doing it...

I suspect that would be after Barry John had been through in 1971 Grandpa, I recall how big a deal it was in press that he was kicking round the corner, and it became trendy. Though both John and Bennett were here in 1969, so we msut of seen it then. Maybe just wasn't as exciting as Wales were getting beaten, and I don't even recall seeing them on TV. Lions in 71 were delayed broadcast as well but pretty high profile as they were beating ABs.

Grandpa you not just trying to rub it into us old buggers because you were still at school in early 70s are you??

1965 Locks did the tone kicking

Dan54 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:05 pm

Grandpa wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:14 pm I know we were all kicking "round the corner" in the early 70s at school in NZ... and I'm pretty sure there were All Blacks at the time doing it...

I suspect that would be after Barry John had been through in 1971 Grandpa, I recall how big a deal it was in press that he was kicking round the corner, and it became trendy. Though both John and Bennett were here in 1969, so we msut of seen it then. Maybe just wasn't as exciting as Wales were getting beaten, and I don't even recall seeing them on TV. Lions in 71 were delayed broadcast as well but pretty high profile as they were beating ABs.

Grandpa you not just trying to rub it into us old buggers because you were still at school in early 70s are you??

I'm a young grandpa

Was Gerald Bosch playing on that 1970 SA tour? Or was he later? I remember him kicking with his instep.
But yeah was probably the Lions that triggered us... plus we played soccer and rugby so probably kicking in soccer influenced us too .

Grandpa wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:49 pm

Dan54 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:05 pm

Grandpa wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:14 pm I know we were all kicking "round the corner" in the early 70s at school in NZ... and I'm pretty sure there were All Blacks at the time doing it...

I suspect that would be after Barry John had been through in 1971 Grandpa, I recall how big a deal it was in press that he was kicking round the corner, and it became trendy. Though both John and Bennett were here in 1969, so we msut of seen it then. Maybe just wasn't as exciting as Wales were getting beaten, and I don't even recall seeing them on TV. Lions in 71 were delayed broadcast as well but pretty high profile as they were beating ABs.

Grandpa you not just trying to rub it into us old buggers because you were still at school in early 70s are you??

I'm a young grandpa

Was Gerald Bosch playing on that 1970 SA tour? Or was he later? I remember him kicking with his instep.
But yeah was probably the Lions that triggered us... plus we played soccer and rugby so probably kicking in soccer influenced us too .

Don't seem to recall Bosch being in 1970 tests, he may of been , can't be buggerd looking it up, I too old hell I a great Grandpa!!

Bosch played for the Boks 1974-76.


I still reckon it's Hewson.

French 10, Kamberobero if my memory is correct started that in foot kicking style Bosch followed.

(Not sure about the spelling)

Strange that after Barry John's success in 1971 the ABs stuck with the toe kick technique until late in the decade.

Gumboot wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:39 am Bosch played for the Boks 1974-76.


I still reckon it's Hewson.

My contact into all things rugby history says Going

Gumboot wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:39 am Bosch played for the Boks 1974-76.


I still reckon it's Hewson.

Hewson didn't play his first test till 1979 though? Someone somewhere must have been kicking the ball properly.. maybe in NPC games? Sid Going maybe though he scored zero points for Northland according to wikipedia?

Maybe it was a Frenchman? Pierre Villepreux in 1968 who inspired us? Though Ken Scotland apparently came first...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/int ... ter-effort

Villepreux, who played 34 tests for France between 1967 and 1972, thrilled Kiwi crowds with his goal kicking feats. New Zealanders had seen round-the-corner kickers before - 1959 British and Irish Lions fullback Ken Scotland was an early exemplar- but All Black fullback Fergie McCormick was a traditional straight-through toe kicker.

Pierre Villepreux

Enzedder wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:26 am

Gumboot wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:39 am Bosch played for the Boks 1974-76.


I still reckon it's Hewson.

My contact into all things rugby history says Going

Just watched some footage of the 1976 2nd test vs SA, and it appears that your contact is on the money.

Gumboot wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:51 am Strange that after Barry John's success in 1971 the ABs stuck with the toe kick technique until late in the decade.

Yep but don't forget most of the NZ players had learnt to kick 'properly' ie with the toe , so you had to wait until kids came through that had seen the new trendy way.

Dan54 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:59 pm

Gumboot wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:51 am Strange that after Barry John's success in 1971 the ABs stuck with the toe kick technique until late in the decade.

Yep but don't forget most of the NZ players had learnt to kick 'properly' ie with the toe , so you had to wait until kids came through that had seen the new trendy way.

True.

Gumboot wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:05 pm

Dan54 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:59 pm

Gumboot wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:51 am Strange that after Barry John's success in 1971 the ABs stuck with the toe kick technique until late in the decade.

Yep but don't forget most of the NZ players had learnt to kick 'properly' ie with the toe , so you had to wait until kids came through that had seen the new trendy way.

True.

I was 10 when the Lions came to town, my parents took me to a game for my birthday. We were kicking straight toe then a lot... but we were also following the trend and trying to kick with the side of the foot. I remember it hurt more.

Was when the old boots started to disappear a few years later, up til then we all played in sqare toe boots, which were actually good for protecting toes etc in rucks, as well as giving a straight surface for kicking.
And they were black with no bloody stripes on them!!! I was embarassed to wear the ones with stripes etc in late 70s when I couldn't get proper ones anymore! I was worried that people would think I a back!!!! Mind you once they saw how fast I was they realised they were wrong.

Guy Smiley wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:54 pmI was 10 when the Lions came to town, my parents took me to a game for my birthday. We were kicking straight toe then a lot... but we were also following the trend and trying to kick with the side of the foot. I remember it hurt more.

Snap!

Dan54 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:59 pmWas when the old boots started to disappear a few years later, up til then we all played in sqare toe boots, which were actually good for protecting toes etc in rucks, as well as giving a straight surface for kicking.
And they were black with no bloody stripes on them!!! I was embarassed to wear the ones with stripes etc in late 70s when I couldn't get proper ones anymore! I was worried that people would think I a back!!!! Mind you once they saw how fast I was they realised they were wrong.

Stirring up some old memories there, Dan. I vaguely recall my first pair of soccer-style rugby boots (stripes and all) in my last year of secondary school. They were a huge improvement for this lightweight back.

Fully believe you too Gumboots, as I say I a dinasour, and still think I probably diliked the soccer style ones that became the norm is feet tended to feel it when they were stomped on. But we all get used to new fangled things (though none will convince me coloured boots are OK!!!

In my years the aluminium studs were the in thing.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:01 am In my years the aluminium studs were the in thing.

I don't know how many times players failed stud checks with those. The buggers would walk over sealed carpark and roads in their books and have sharp edges all over the place.

Enzedder wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:05 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:01 am In my years the aluminium studs were the in thing.

I don't know how many times players failed stud checks with those. The buggers would walk over sealed carpark and roads in their books and have sharp edges all over the place.

Gee that brings back memories of playing league in primary and high school. Lining up in front of the ref for a quick visual and a tap on the tags with a linie's flag handle.

MungoMan wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:01 am

Enzedder wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:05 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:01 am In my years the aluminium studs were the in thing.

I don't know how many times players failed stud checks with those. The buggers would walk over sealed carpark and roads in their books and have sharp edges all over the place.

Gee that brings back memories of playing league in primary and high school. Lining up in front of the ref for a quick visual and a tap on the tags with a linie's flag handle.

I always remember the refs running their hands over the studs to check for sharp edges here in NZ MM, well in rugby anyway.

Dan54 wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:26 pmI always remember the refs running their hands over the studs to check for sharp edges here in NZ MM, well in rugby anyway.

*cough*

sprigs

Gumboot wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:05 pm

Dan54 wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:26 pmI always remember the refs running their hands over the studs to check for sharp edges here in NZ MM, well in rugby anyway.

*cough*

sprigs

Well maybe I should of read what I wrote before posting huh?

What's the difference between studs and sprigs? Is one metal and one plastic?

I'm a stud you're a sprig

AFAIR the first prominent instep kicker was Guy Camberebero 1960s, for France. Think Rollerson was the first All Black I saw kicking that way, too.