NPR

Nice article about him here. Only a 2 minute read.


The Guardian: Chris Robshaw's career can be measured by the noble manner he handled failures.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ed-failure

I am an unashamed Robshaw and Lancaster defender. They oversaw a re-building of English rugby that had been overdue since the RWC win in '03, laid foundations upon which Eddie has been able to add. Their England team was one I actually enjoyed watching and while it didn't all go as planned, there was less to be outright embarassed or depressed by than under previous regimes. It would've been nice to pick up more trophies under them, but I'll take winning 4/5 four years on the trot in the 6 Nations ahead of the positional oscillation experienced by, say, Wales. It remains somewhat unfair the extent to which the 2015 debacle was laid so heavily on Robshaw's shoulders alone. How easily people forget that he oversaw the best set of England results against New Zealand since the '03 brigade's hey day, both in terms of performance and score; that against possibly the best All Blacks team of my lifetime.

For years Robshaw was comfortably one of our best players and I admired his calm stoicism even under withering media pressure as in '13 or '15.

He was probably left in the national squad a year too long by Eddie, but, at the same time, he was far from the only one under-performing at that stage and he was having to make do in a pack with some weird selections like Brad Shields at lock on that SA tour.

His heading overseas is a loss to the English game, I hope he enjoys winding down in America and manages to escape into full retirement without serious injury,

The main criticism thrust at Robshaw is that he's probably too nice.

If anyone in life finishes a career with that 'criticism' ringing in their ears then they can feel fairly proud of themselves.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:52 am Nice article about him here. Only a 2 minute read.


The Guardian: Chris Robshaw's career can be measured by the noble manner he handled failures.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ed-failure

Yep, excellent article. Robshaw comes over as a good man

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:16 am The main criticism thrust at Robshaw is that he's probably too nice.

If anyone in life finishes a career with that 'criticism' ringing in their ears then they can feel fairly proud of themselves.

I think that might be what it's softened to after his post-2015 efforts, but it felt like the entirety of his tenure was riven with "he's not a proper 7" and "he's too slow".

While the former might have been true, he was still the best flanker in the country and the one best able to play in that position in the absence of the glut of talent we currently have.

Always liked Robshaw, genuine nice guy.
Can someone explain what Haskell is reffering to in the guardian article when he says Robshaw never came out with what really happened? And would have 3 points for a draw from a Penalty seen England progress to the QF?

boere wors wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 am Always liked Robshaw, genuine nice guy.
Can someone explain what Haskell is reffering to in the guardian article when he says Robshaw never came out with what really happened? And would have 3 points for a draw from a Penalty seen England progress to the QF?

I suspect he means Robshaw consulted key players like Farrell on whether to go for the posts or try the lineout and that either Farrell said he wasn't confident about the kick or the consensus from the players was to push for the win.

The draw being good enough for the QF, I can't remember if that was known at the time or if it's hindsight.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:28 am

boere wors wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 am Always liked Robshaw, genuine nice guy.
Can someone explain what Haskell is reffering to in the guardian article when he says Robshaw never came out with what really happened? And would have 3 points for a draw from a Penalty seen England progress to the QF?

I suspect he means Robshaw consulted key players like Farrell on whether to go for the posts or try the lineout and that either Farrell said he wasn't confident about the kick or the consensus from the players was to push for the win.

The draw being good enough for the QF, I can't remember if that was known at the time or if it's hindsight.

Ford was on the pitch then as well...

Ultimately though, it's still the captain who makes the on-pitch decision regardless of what is said. Fair dues to him for not throwing anyone under the bus though.

The 2015 Wales game was proper damned if you do, damned if you don't. By the time it got to that decision we"d given away a billion penalties and the iron defence of the midfield had waved a scrum half playing on the wing through. If we had got the draw and then still got pasted by the Aussies, which seems likely given how shocking we were, hindsight then starts asking why we didn't go for it against Wales.

And the fact that Gatland decided to take Ross fucking Moriarty over Robshaw in 2015 just gives another reason to hate the Kiwi bastard.

Kawazaki wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:14 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:28 am

boere wors wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 am Always liked Robshaw, genuine nice guy.
Can someone explain what Haskell is reffering to in the guardian article when he says Robshaw never came out with what really happened? And would have 3 points for a draw from a Penalty seen England progress to the QF?

I suspect he means Robshaw consulted key players like Farrell on whether to go for the posts or try the lineout and that either Farrell said he wasn't confident about the kick or the consensus from the players was to push for the win.

The draw being good enough for the QF, I can't remember if that was known at the time or if it's hindsight.

Ford was on the pitch then as well...

Ultimately though, it's still the captain who makes the on-pitch decision regardless of what is said. Fair dues to him for not throwing anyone under the bus though.

Yes, but while his kicking is far better than some allow for, his range is shorter than Farrell's, so there's no way he would have been asked to take the kick. He may well have been party to the discussion over whether to go for the corner.

One thing I think is often forgotten in the discussion over that decision is how badly the pack collectively fucked up that lineout drive. It's an execution error rather than a poor decision.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:47 pm One thing I think is often forgotten in the discussion over that decision is how badly the pack collectively fucked up that lineout drive. It's an execution error rather than a poor decision.

Yep, throw it to Robshaw jumping at number 2 - with Webber throwing in.

I also just remembered that it was Brown who conceded the penalty for Wales to go ahead 28-25.

England: England: Mike Brown; Anthony Watson, Brad Barritt, Sam Burgess, Jonny May, Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Courtney Lawes, Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.
Replacements: Rob Webber, Mako Vunipola, Kieran Brookes, Joe Launchbury, James Haskell, Richard Wigglesworth, George Ford, Alex Goode.

It remains somewhat unfair the extent to which the 2015 debacle was laid so heavily on Robshaw's shoulders alone

Was it? I honestly don't remember him getting the lions share of the stick, I thought it was, rightly IMO, Lancaster who took the vast majority of it. This isn't a challenge, I just don't remember it like that.

Anyway, always liked Robshaw and although he wouldn't have been a test starter a disgrace he wasn't picked for a Lions tour.

I didn't remember the Brown penalty, so had a look:

Penalty to Wales as Brown catches a high one on halfway, but holds on in the tackle! Great work at the breakdown by Warburton to get over it and win the turnover here. Biggar will have a shot at goal.

burn him

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:15 pm I didn't remember the Brown penalty, so had a look:

Penalty to Wales as Brown catches a high one on halfway, but holds on in the tackle! Great work at the breakdown by Warburton to get over it and win the turnover here. Biggar will have a shot at goal.

burn him

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:47 pm One thing I think is often forgotten in the discussion over that decision is how badly the pack collectively fucked up that lineout drive. It's an execution error rather than a poor decision.

I remember that, it was a terrible lineout.

I thought earlier the Wales game was the group decider in the last pool stage. But I just checked, the game against Wales was only their second game after beating Fiji in their first, while Wales had previously beaten Uruguay. So no real need to go all in for a win, a draw would have been fine. But sure, though decision if the kickers weren't confident with the kick.

I think Robshaw is one of those players who was not the most gifted, but managed to eke out every bit of ability he had through sheer hard work.

ASMO wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm I think Robshaw is one of those players who was not the most gifted, but managed to eke out every bit of ability he had through sheer hard work.

Sort of player that gets the 'Unsung Hero' award at the end of season club dinner.

The problem I had is that you can't in all honesty move past this...

Eddie Jones, had made such a blunt assessment of him in the press, too. “A good workmanlike player‚” Jones wrote, “without any one point of difference.”

...without nodding in agreement. A player that would never score less than 6/10 but never more than 7.5/10 either.

But then again, it's difficult to think of who was a better option there between 2011 and 2015. Steffon Armitage was largely ignored then went overseas.

Eddie changed his mind once he got a chance to work with him, though.

Robshaw was 8-9/10 most of the time (hence the two Premiership player of the year awards, getting England captaincy, usually being one of England's best players).

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:06 pm Eddie changed his mind once he got a chance to work with him, though.

Robshaw was 8-9/10 most of the time (hence the two Premiership player of the year awards, getting England captaincy, usually being one of England's best players).

True, but you can see what he means by no point of difference

Slick wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:51 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:06 pm Eddie changed his mind once he got a chance to work with him, though.

Robshaw was 8-9/10 most of the time (hence the two Premiership player of the year awards, getting England captaincy, usually being one of England's best players).

True, but you can see what he means by no point of difference

That wasn't quite right either. He had better hands than pretty much every English flanker. His distribution skills were a core part of Quins' attacking game.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:06 pm Eddie changed his mind once he got a chance to work with him, though.

Robshaw was 8-9/10 most of the time (hence the two Premiership player of the year awards, getting England captaincy, usually being one of England's best players).

In 2 separate positions.

Slick wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:51 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:06 pm Eddie changed his mind once he got a chance to work with him, though.

Robshaw was 8-9/10 most of the time (hence the two Premiership player of the year awards, getting England captaincy, usually being one of England's best players).

True, but you can see what he means by no point of difference

Not really. His link play at the time was certainly a point of difference, and his propensity to always be where he needs to be is still apparent in the twilight of his career.

He also made, and still makes, more turnovers, especially crucial ones, than most 'proper' sevens. Back in the Lancaster years you always knew that if he was over the ball it was a turnover, he just picked the right moment and didn't jackal over every ruck like a kvesic.

A fine player in my opinion, and for a sustained period of time. There are a few who may have shone brighter for a season or so, but I can think of no English flankers who have maintained that level of performance For anywhere near as long. Seems one of the good guys, too.

I was pretty pissed off with how he was unceremoniously dumped and Brad fucking Shields given the nod, but as it turned out Brad shit the bed anyway, Robshaw got injured, and we unearthed a worldy in Tom Curry. Couldn't ask for a better player to take over - and there's Underhill and Willis and the other Curry and maybe Ben Earl. Happy days.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:19 pm I was pretty pissed off with how he was unceremoniously dumped and Brad fucking Shields given the nod, but as it turned out Brad shit the bed anyway, Robshaw got injured, and we unearthed a worldy in Tom Curry. Couldn't ask for a better player to take over - and there's Underhill and Willis and the other Curry and maybe Ben Earl. Happy days.

Yes, it would be hard to imagine the strength we have at flanker now three or four years ago.

BTW, I thought BT Sport made a pretty decent effort at marking CR’s last game at The Stoop, given the circumstances. What did the Quinn’s guys make of it?

Slick wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:10 pm

It remains somewhat unfair the extent to which the 2015 debacle was laid so heavily on Robshaw's shoulders alone

Was it? I honestly don't remember him getting the lions share of the stick, I thought it was, rightly IMO, Lancaster who took the vast majority of it. This isn't a challenge, I just don't remember it like that.

Anyway, always liked Robshaw and although he wouldn't have been a test starter a disgrace he wasn't picked for a Lions tour.

I think the captain does have to go down with his ship/shoulder the blame, it's just part of the job. Maybe there was unrealistic expectation put on that England squad in 2015.

Robshaw has always struck me as a good rugby guy, straight up, plays hard and fair.

To be frank, though, I never had him as Lions material.

Un Pilier wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:30 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:19 pm I was pretty pissed off with how he was unceremoniously dumped and Brad fucking Shields given the nod, but as it turned out Brad shit the bed anyway, Robshaw got injured, and we unearthed a worldy in Tom Curry. Couldn't ask for a better player to take over - and there's Underhill and Willis and the other Curry and maybe Ben Earl. Happy days.

Yes, it would be hard to imagine the strength we have at flanker now three or four years ago.

BTW, I thought BT Sport made a pretty decent effort at marking CR’s last game at The Stoop, given the circumstances. What did the Quinn’s guys make of it?

Busy being very unhappy about losing the match and the final game being in an empty stadium. Good interview though.

ASMO wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm I think Robshaw is one of those players who was not the most gifted, but managed to eke out every bit of ability he had through sheer hard work.

He played some very good games against us. From memory I think he was excellent in 2014 series.

Fine player and decent guy. Probably a bit too nice to be captain.

Needed a more boss name, like say Rob Chrishaw

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:51 pm Needed a more boss name, like say Rob Chrishaw