NPR

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:53 pm**

This is the worst Canterbury have played for many years. He can f**k off and his fellow co-coach Mark Brown can f**k off with him.

Thorne's failures just show that elite players do not necessarily make excellent coaches.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:05 pm**

I think it shows that average players sometimes make average coaches too.

Blackadder, Thorne...

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:13 pm**

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:05 pm I think it shows that average players sometimes make average coaches too.

Blackadder, Thorne...

Both All Black captains. I'd argue both were above average players.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:16 pm**

Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:13 pm
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:05 pm I think it shows that average players sometimes make average coaches too.

Blackadder, Thorne...
Both All Black captains. I'd argue both were above average players.

Can we agree on average All Blacks?

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:21 pm**

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:16 pm
Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:13 pm
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:05 pm I think it shows that average players sometimes make average coaches too.

Blackadder, Thorne...
Both All Black captains. I'd argue both were above average players.
Can we agree on average All Blacks?

If there was a continuum of all AB's ranked from best to worst, with Dan Carter at one end and Brett Cameron at the other, I'd argue they'd be closer to DC than BC.

Posted: **Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:35 pm**

Is this symptomatic of NZ Rugby’s insular coaching focus? If you are not in the in crowd there isn’t a pathway for you so we see high turnover amongst provincial coaches and eventually coaches rising to roles above their station.

Canterbury teams used to be greater than the sum of their parts. This year’s team is less, and sadly, the buck needs to stop with the coaches.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:09 am**

Jb1981 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:35 pm Is this symptomatic of NZ Rugby’s insular coaching focus? If you are not in the in crowd there isn’t a pathway for you so we see high turnover amongst provincial coaches and eventually coaches rising to roles above their station.

Canterbury teams used to be greater than the sum of their parts. This year’s team is less, and sadly, the buck needs to stop with the coaches.

Are you a former player? No? Fuck off.

Are you an assistant coach of the team you are applying to be head coach of? No? Fuck off.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:25 am**

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:16 pm
Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:13 pm
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:05 pm I think it shows that average players sometimes make average coaches too.

Blackadder, Thorne...
Both All Black captains. I'd argue both were above average players.
Can we agree on average All Blacks?

Keep it simple. Playing level is no indicator of coaching ability.

No one was putting up monuments to Leo Cullens achievements as a player; but as a coach, he's showed, & is showing all the signs of achieving much more.

Pat Lam was a decent player; but his initial performance as a coach were disappointing; but he showed the same key skill as a coach, as Cullen has; a willingness to learn from his mistakes, & develop to become a better coach, & to not give up !

A player is pretty much limited by what nature has given them in skills. They can work hard to make the most of what they've got; but you can't train in fast twitch muscle !

A coach can however become better, if they are willing & able to learn; & even better, if they are honest & can acknowledge the parts of the game they are weak on; & don't let Ego be a problem; they will bring on people to help with these.

Playing is all about me; coaching is all about, 'We' !

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:34 am**

The team looks like an absolute shambles. Alarm bells started ringing when he was handed what was essentially a Crusaders starting XV to defend the shield, and put in a directionless, error riddled performance, where the team looked far less than the sum of their parts.

I don't think anyone expected this young Canterbury squad to be genuine title contenders - by my count, 9 of the starting XV against BOP last week were 22 or younger - but there's no way we should be getting thrashed by BOP and losing to Otago at home for the first time in 15+ years.

Warning signs were flashing pre-season for me when Reed Prinsep - who IMO isn't even part of our best loose forward combination (6. Sanders 7. Christie 8. Douglas) - was handed the captaincy over Drummond or Romano.

The set piece, traditionally a key strength, has also been abysmal. A stat flashed up on screen last night that our lineout success rate was around 80%, or 10th in the competition. This despite having All Black locks Romano and Dunshea, plus the promising Sam Darry, available most of the season. The scrum success rate was equally poor. Last night this was compounded by the insane decision to play Prinsep at lock for 25 minutes in a tight game when our lineout was already faltering, instead of substituting one of the two opensides we for some reason started with.

Probably the most egregious error this season has been tactical substitutions. I've lost count of how many times in tight games we've substituted our starting 9/10 with ~20 minutes to go, only for the team to look directionless thereafter. The numerous one point losses bear this out.

Maybe the only consolation prize would be getting a decent coach and absolutely domination the Championship next season.

All that to say Reuben Thorne, Reuben Thorne, Reuben Thoooooooooorne OUT.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:40 am**

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:09 am
Jb1981 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:35 pm Is this symptomatic of NZ Rugby’s insular coaching focus? If you are not in the in crowd there isn’t a pathway for you so we see high turnover amongst provincial coaches and eventually coaches rising to roles above their station.

Canterbury teams used to be greater than the sum of their parts. This year’s team is less, and sadly, the buck needs to stop with the coaches.
Are you a former player? No? Fuck off.

Are you an assistant coach of the team you are applying to be head coach of? No? Fuck off.

I see that you didn't make the same comment to AC. If we cannot have an opinion, why have a forum?.

Oh, and very very few of us can criticise the refs from now on either.

Or you can fuck off.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:52 am**

Enzedder wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:40 am
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:09 am
Jb1981 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:35 pm Is this symptomatic of NZ Rugby’s insular coaching focus? If you are not in the in crowd there isn’t a pathway for you so we see high turnover amongst provincial coaches and eventually coaches rising to roles above their station.

Canterbury teams used to be greater than the sum of their parts. This year’s team is less, and sadly, the buck needs to stop with the coaches.
Are you a former player? No? Fuck off.

Are you an assistant coach of the team you are applying to be head coach of? No? Fuck off.
I see that you didn't make the same comment to AC. If we cannot have an opinion, why have a forum?.

Oh, and very very few of us can criticise the refs from now on either.

Or you can fuck off.

Its a comment on coaching appointments, isn’t it? Pointing out players or assistant coaches having the inside running?

Although on my first read I did wonder what I had said to get that response

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:54 am**

Good Player Good Coach Pool

Geech, Telfer, Woodward

This is just a starter, there will be more, for sure

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:32 am**

I can accept losing, even if I never want to see my team lose, if we played well but the other team was just a wee bit better but this year has been embarrassing loss after embarrassing loss. It's definitely a case of the team being less than the sum of its part and that comes back to the coach.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:14 am**

Enzedder wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:40 am
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:09 am
Jb1981 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:35 pm Is this symptomatic of NZ Rugby’s insular coaching focus? If you are not in the in crowd there isn’t a pathway for you so we see high turnover amongst provincial coaches and eventually coaches rising to roles above their station.

Canterbury teams used to be greater than the sum of their parts. This year’s team is less, and sadly, the buck needs to stop with the coaches.
Are you a former player? No? Fuck off.

Are you an assistant coach of the team you are applying to be head coach of? No? Fuck off.
I see that you didn't make the same comment to AC. If we cannot have an opinion, why have a forum?.

Oh, and very very few of us can criticise the refs from now on either.

Or you can fuck off.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:15 am**

Enzedder wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:40 am
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:09 am
Jb1981 wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:35 pm Is this symptomatic of NZ Rugby’s insular coaching focus? If you are not in the in crowd there isn’t a pathway for you so we see high turnover amongst provincial coaches and eventually coaches rising to roles above their station.

Canterbury teams used to be greater than the sum of their parts. This year’s team is less, and sadly, the buck needs to stop with the coaches.
Are you a former player? No? Fuck off.

Are you an assistant coach of the team you are applying to be head coach of? No? Fuck off.
I see that you didn't make the same comment to AC. If we cannot have an opinion, why have a forum?.

Oh, and very very few of us can criticise the refs from now on either.

Or you can fuck off.

When's your next birthday, Enz? I'm happy to send you some comprehension skills as a much-needed gift.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:37 am**

mrbrownstone wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:34 am The team looks like an absolute shambles. Alarm bells started ringing when he was handed what was essentially a Crusaders starting XV to defend the shield, and put in a directionless, error riddled performance, where the team looked far less than the sum of their parts.

I don't think anyone expected this young Canterbury squad to be genuine title contenders - by my count, 9 of the starting XV against BOP last week were 22 or younger - but there's no way we should be getting thrashed by BOP and losing to Otago at home for the first time in 15+ years.

Warning signs were flashing pre-season for me when Reed Prinsep - who IMO isn't even part of our best loose forward combination (6. Sanders 7. Christie 8. Douglas) - was handed the captaincy over Drummond or Romano.

The set piece, traditionally a key strength, has also been abysmal. A stat flashed up on screen last night that our lineout success rate was around 80%, or 10th in the competition. This despite having All Black locks Romano and Dunshea, plus the promising Sam Darry, available most of the season. The scrum success rate was equally poor. Last night this was compounded by the insane decision to play Prinsep at lock for 25 minutes in a tight game when our lineout was already faltering, instead of substituting one of the two opensides we for some reason started with.

Probably the most egregious error this season has been tactical substitutions. I've lost count of how many times in tight games we've substituted our starting 9/10 with ~20 minutes to go, only for the team to look directionless thereafter. The numerous one point losses bear this out.

Maybe the only consolation prize would be getting a decent coach and absolutely domination the Championship next season.

All that to say Reuben Thorne, Reuben Thorne, Reuben Thoooooooooorne OUT.

The rot set in under Delaney 3 years ago and they've only been hanging on by the skin of their teeth the last two years. Now the chickens have come home to roost and Thorne and Brown are just picking up the feathers. Injuries have been a major problem as well — McCallister, Jager, Sanders, Mataele, McLeod are ones that immediately come to mind, which is an awful lot of experience, particularly at set piece, missing in a young team.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:40 am**

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:05 pm I think it shows that average players sometimes make average coaches too.

Blackadder, Thorne...

Thorne was picked by 4 successive AB coaches and only (the best version of) Kaino has been a better AB 6 in the pro era. That sounds rather better than average to me.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:57 am**

Certain Navigator wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:40 am
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:05 pm I think it shows that average players sometimes make average coaches too.

Blackadder, Thorne...
Thorne was picked by 4 successive AB coaches and only (the best version of) Kaino has been a better AB 6 in the pro era. That sounds rather better than average to me.

You seriously rate him higher than Jerry Collins?

And Kaino at his best (and even below his best) was waaay better than Thorne, imho.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:13 am**

Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:21 pm
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:16 pm
Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:13 pm

Both All Black captains. I'd argue both were above average players.
Can we agree on average All Blacks?
If there was a continuum of all AB's ranked from best to worst, with Dan Carter at one end and Brett Cameron at the other, I'd argue they'd be closer to DC than BC.

So, the very definition of slightly above average All Black.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:50 am**

Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:53 pm This is the worst Canterbury have played for many years. He can f**k off and his fellow co-coach Mark Brown can f**k off with him.

Thorne's failures just show that elite players do not necessarily make excellent coaches.

There is a wee fly in your theory.

Posted: **Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:06 am**

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:52 am
Enzedder wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:40 am
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:09 am

Are you a former player? No? Fuck off.

Are you an assistant coach of the team you are applying to be head coach of? No? Fuck off.
I see that you didn't make the same comment to AC. If we cannot have an opinion, why have a forum?.

Oh, and very very few of us can criticise the refs from now on either.

Or you can fuck off.
Its a comment on coaching appointments, isn’t it? Pointing out players or assistant coaches having the inside running?

Although on my first read I did wonder what I had said to get that response

Indeed it was, JB.

I think Enz is still stewing after Richie Mo'unga's masterclass last night.

NPR

Reuben Thorne OUT!!!!!!!!

Reuben Thorne OUT!!!!!!!!

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