NPR

Might as well get the bandwagon started now.

It’s a fairly unimaginative Ireland team. And that’s saying something given Irish rugby.

Starting Murray any time in the last year or so; is grounds enough to question his selection policy; then picking Stockdale as FB is grounds for dismissal

It’s slow and predictable. I just don’t see the creativity that will break down a determined defence. Where is the x-factor in the backs or relentless fast paced overwhelming of the opposition?

Stockdale to be fair has probably been Irelands best player tonight....agreed the bar wasnt high.

Could you please pluralise the title, that'll allow the English to happily join in.

Raggs wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:19 pm Could you please pluralise the title, that'll allow the English to happily join in.

Done; but Chris is off limits !

ASMO wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:56 pm Stockdale to be fair has probably been Irelands best player tonight....agreed the bar wasnt high.

Um

I know you're fond of hot takes and all


but did you watch his repeated hilarious fuckups and that

I'm slightly amused at how the entire 2015 England coaching team all got jobs in Ireland and now our complaints from then are their complaints.

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:32 pm I'm slightly amused at how the entire 2015 England coaching team all got jobs in Ireland and now our complaints from then are their complaints.

Good point, we’ll made.

Still, could be worse

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:32 pm I'm slightly amused at how the entire 2015 England coaching team all got jobs in Ireland and now our complaints from then are their complaints.

I think even Mike Catt has followed faz sr to Ireland?

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:32 pm I'm slightly amused at how the entire 2015 England coaching team all got jobs in Ireland and now our complaints from then are their complaints.

Not too many people are giving out about Lancaster.


As ever we're a bi-polar lot - we're either the best in the world or shite. Our biggest problem on Saturday was the sheer number of errors - not being able to win a lineout and having tits for hands. Apart from that I thought it was a decent display. If we had been able to cut those errors by 90% we would have won reasonably handy (although I don't think France had their best game either).

Errors are fixable - I'm not nearly as pessimistic as the rest of my brethren. To even be within a decent shot of winning the title on the final day was more than I was expecting this year.

Having said that their concerns may well prove to be valid - I just think its far too early to making any judgements on the Farrell era.

Just exactly what tha fuck has Mike Catt achieved in his coaching career to make him the obvious signing for the IRFU ?

Answers on a postcard to; "whatthefuckistheplan@irfu.org"

I had deep misgivings about giving Farrell the top job; but his coaching selections at this stage are even more baffling than his squads

IIRC there was a meme that Catt was the good guy just trying to do his job whilst being bullied by a Rasputin style Farrell after England's 2015 debacle. Can't see much evidence he's deserving of a third international gig.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:55 pm It’s slow and predictable. I just don’t see the creativity that will break down a determined defence. Where is the x-factor in the backs or relentless fast paced overwhelming of the opposition?

Yeah, amazing how quickly it has changed.....

Slick wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:37 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:55 pm It’s slow and predictable. I just don’t see the creativity that will break down a determined defence. Where is the x-factor in the backs or relentless fast paced overwhelming of the opposition?

Yeah, amazing how quickly it has changed.....

Not enough wrap-around backline moves.

Why would you start a tighthead at loosehead and a loosehead at tighthead?

Noves tried this "innovative thinking" with Toulouse towards the end of his tenure when he'd gone completely, megalomaniac barking.

Who could have foreseen a bunch of Irish people not responding well under the command of an Englishman ?
“Now, cumon lads, that were a right fookin shite purfurmonce!”

“Ah now den basically it’s basically da same as when ye burned Cork now to be sure ye gobshite”



What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:18 am What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

Fuck knows !

Any of the Provinces could have put more points on Georgia individually, & yet when you add that Farrell, Catt magic; they looked dire

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:18 am What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

You could level the same accusation at England.

fishfoodie wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:25 am

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:18 am What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

Fuck knows !

Any of the Provinces could have put more points on Georgia individually, & yet when you add that Farrell, Catt magic; they looked dire

I actually think Catt is more of the problem, your backs are utterly toothless right now despite having a reasonable amount of ball. You struggled in setpiece v England, but we are quite strong there so on its own is no disgrace: but lack of moves in your backs is weird.

I’m biased though as I always hated Catt because he was shit yet the pundits and pro bath management loved him.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:16 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:18 am What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

You could level the same accusation at England.

We have a great move: give it to May and let him do everything again !
If ignore Young’s & slades awful passing, Ford’s non tackling, Farrells decision making and Daly’s catching, we’ve actually got a pretty lethal backline tbh

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:02 am Why would you start a tighthead at loosehead and a loosehead at tighthead?

Noves tried this "innovative thinking" with Toulouse towards the end of his tenure when he'd gone completely, megalomaniac barking.

Ssshhhhhh, in case Foster is listening in. Our front row are looking good currently. So zip it.

Ymx wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:23 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:02 am Why would you start a tighthead at loosehead and a loosehead at tighthead?

Noves tried this "innovative thinking" with Toulouse towards the end of his tenure when he'd gone completely, megalomaniac barking.

Ssshhhhhh, in case Foster is listening in. Our front row are looking good currently. So zip it.

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:22 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:16 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:18 am What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

You could level the same accusation at England.

We have a great move: give it to May and let him do everything again !
If ignore Young’s & slades awful passing, Ford’s non tackling, Farrells decision making and Daly’s catching, we’ve actually got a pretty lethal backline tbh

Possibly why Eddie's game plan is keep it in the fwds or let the oppos have the ball.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:22 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:16 pm
You could level the same accusation at England.

We have a great move: give it to May and let him do everything again !
If ignore Young’s & slades awful passing, Ford’s non tackling, Farrells decision making and Daly’s catching, we’ve actually got a pretty lethal backline tbh

Possibly why Eddie's game plan is keep it in the fwds or let the oppos have the ball.

A plan genius in its simplicity: if we can’t get it to May, kick it away and let the opposition fuck up.

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:33 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:22 pm

We have a great move: give it to May and let him do everything again !
If ignore Young’s & slades awful passing, Ford’s non tackling, Farrells decision making and Daly’s catching, we’ve actually got a pretty lethal backline tbh

Possibly why Eddie's game plan is keep it in the fwds or let the oppos have the ball.

A plan genius in its simplicity: if we can’t get it to May, kick it away and let the opposition fuck up.

With Eng's defence, it's not a bad plan tbf

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:22 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:16 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:18 am What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

You could level the same accusation at England.

We have a great move: give it to May and let him do everything again !
If ignore Young’s & slades awful passing, Ford’s non tackling, Farrells decision making and Daly’s catching, we’ve actually got a pretty lethal backline tbh

Er...

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:16 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:18 am What is Catt actually doing if he's attack coach ? I could barely seen any structure or moves or anything really.

You could level the same accusation at England.

Jones has at least admitted he's not even doing anything about attack until after the Lions tour. It wasn't dissimilar late RWC cycle. 2016-2017 England depended utterly on capitalizing on opponents mistakes and applying pressure. By 2019 He had so very specific shapes and an attacking plan that worked off kick-off and set-pieces.

Why? It's not like he's overhauled the team this year. He's been in charge for a long time.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:49 am Why? It's not like he's overhauled the team this year. He's been in charge for a long time.

No idea. It's what it was reported he said though. I can only speculate it's all about building to the RWC and keeping things back so rivals can't analyseit for a long time and counter it in advance.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:44 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:33 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:31 pm

Possibly why Eddie's game plan is keep it in the fwds or let the oppos have the ball.

A plan genius in its simplicity: if we can’t get it to May, kick it away and let the opposition fuck up.

With Eng's defence, it's not a bad plan tbf

For all the criticism this year England's defense is insanely good at the moment. Their decision making as well. It was pre-Jones we had spent a decade or more lamenting how England players never make good decisions, have no discipline, no proper openside and ruck nous. England are now the poster child for making good decisions off the ball, never panicing, keeping opponents where they want them, their ability to produce fast ball and turnovers, have 2 brilliant opensides (And more in the wings) and other players who are clever on the floor.

I think this progression under Jones and the Premiership academies, coaches and talent spotters actually deserve a lot of credit on this change and improvement in player skills and ability.

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:58 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:44 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:33 pm

A plan genius in its simplicity: if we can’t get it to May, kick it away and let the opposition fuck up.

With Eng's defence, it's not a bad plan tbf

For all the criticism this year England's defense is insanely good at the moment. Their decision making as well. It was pre-Jones we had spent a decade or more lamenting how England players never make good decisions, have no discipline, no proper openside and ruck nous. England are now the poster child for making good decisions off the ball, never panicing, keeping opponents where they want them, their ability to produce fast ball and turnovers, have 2 brilliant opensides (And more in the wings) and other players who are clever on the floor.

I think this progression under Jones and the Premiership academies, coaches and talent spotters actually deserve a lot of credit on this change and improvement in player skills and ability.

Agree. Jones has clearly decided that this is the ultimate incarnation of a team playing by the manual. And, as you alluded to, when Eng were allowed to think on their feet they made awful decisions e.g.
- kick for the corner when should kick for posts
- kick for the posts when should kick for the corner
and let's be honest, these are not hard decisions.

It is a Catch 22: the more you coach systems --> the less they can think on their feet --> the more you are inclined to coach to patterns

We've literally just had multiple England matches where the insistence on kicking meant butchering big attacking opportunities / needlessly putting ourselves under pressure / handing over possession

It's really not as simple as "well, England should've called those two decisions differently 5 years and 60 matches ago with a very different squad so it makes sense to make them play in such a restricted manner now"

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:33 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:22 pm

We have a great move: give it to May and let him do everything again !
If ignore Young’s & slades awful passing, Ford’s non tackling, Farrells decision making and Daly’s catching, we’ve actually got a pretty lethal backline tbh

Possibly why Eddie's game plan is keep it in the fwds or let the oppos have the ball.

A plan genius in its simplicity: if we can’t get it to May, kick it away and let the opposition fuck up.

With an attack as toothless as Ireland's you'd be foolhardy to play any differently against us.

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:09 pm We've literally just had multiple England matches where the insistence on kicking meant butchering big attacking opportunities / needlessly putting ourselves under pressure / handing over possession

It's really not as simple as "well, England should've called those two decisions differently 5 years and 60 matches ago with a very different squad so it makes sense to make them play in such a restricted manner now"

Perhaps where I talk about England have got smarter is in the rucks and floor game and their sheer relentless defense which also rarely gives away penalties. Jones took a while to get that last part right.

We are fairly poor on attacking nous, except where we do what we are comfortable with and some individual flair from May or Daly on occasion.