I assume there are similar cases in every other jurisdiction where the MAX was certified ?
Boeing has agreed to pay $2.5bn (£1.8bn) to settle US criminal charges that it hid information from safety officials about the design of its 737 Max planes.
The US Justice Department said the firm chose "profit over candour", impeding oversight of the planes, which were involved in two deadly crashes.
About $500m will go to families of the 346 people killed in the tragedies.
Boeing said the agreement acknowledged how the firm "fell short".
737 Max to fly again
- fishfoodie
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Ouch.
- mat the expat
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I see the Dreamliner is also experiencing big issues....
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Sounds like a 737 in Indonesia has crashed after take off.
- Uncle fester
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Is this a max?
BBC News - Indonesia passenger plane missing after take-off
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55601909
Edit: appears to be a 737-500.
BBC News - Indonesia passenger plane missing after take-off
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55601909
Edit: appears to be a 737-500.
- Torquemada 1420
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Not a Max but more trouble for Boeing with these pieces of sh*t.Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:11 am Is this a max?
BBC News - Indonesia passenger plane missing after take-off
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55601909
Edit: appears to be a 737-500.
- Chrysoprase
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The latest installment in this unhappy saga: Boeing 737 cleared to fly again 'too early' - BBC News
- Torquemada 1420
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Not Max related but the Post Office was delayed when this one got crunched last week at Exeter. Pilot must have been blind drunk to cause that amount of damage:
https://ukaviation.news/west-atlantic-7 ... at-exeter/
https://ukaviation.news/west-atlantic-7 ... at-exeter/
Well there goes the No Claims Bonus.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:55 pm Not Max related but the Post Office was delayed when this one got crunched last week at Exeter. Pilot must have been blind drunk to cause that amount of damage:
https://ukaviation.news/west-atlantic-7 ... at-exeter/
- Torquemada 1420
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So, like, do you never get on a plane without checking the engine yourself first? Never go over a bridge until you've been down to inspect the foundations?Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:51 pmNever take for granted what your life is reliant upon? I never trust a climbing rope I don't know.Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:03 pmWhat’s the alternative?Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:31 am Airline safety is like Govts. People place an almost blind faith in their safety.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
- Torquemada 1420
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Yes. That's a good analogy. There is a distinction between using a product that has known safety issues and one that has not.
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US and Japan have grounded 777s. Apparently there were similar incidents to the Colorado one in Indonesia and the Netherlands, engine failure after take-off.
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What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
- Torquemada 1420
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Don't think we have enough data. This a pretty old engine design so would want to see what the engine hours were on all the failed ones before going full on speculation.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:17 am What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.
Other than having a laugh at Boeing's expense (because they are ****s and karma and all that), the reality is it appears to be an engine manufacturing issue which is almost certainly beyond Boeing's control.
Bits fgalling off some 747-400 engines as well over the weekend. Could also be P&W but I can't see for sureTorquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:30 amDon't think we have enough data. This a pretty old engine design so would want to see what the engine hours were on all the failed ones before going full on speculation.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:17 am What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.
Other than having a laugh at Boeing's expense (because they are ****s and karma and all that), the reality is it appears to be an engine manufacturing issue which is almost certainly beyond Boeing's control.
Agree it;s not really in their control, but the punches keep coming in for them
- Torquemada 1420
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They've gotten away with murder. Literally. Imagine the lawsuit if one of those nacelle rings had landed in a crowd!Saint wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:52 amBits fgalling off some 747-400 engines as well over the weekend. Could also be P&W but I can't see for sureTorquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:30 amDon't think we have enough data. This a pretty old engine design so would want to see what the engine hours were on all the failed ones before going full on speculation.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:17 am What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.
Other than having a laugh at Boeing's expense (because they are ****s and karma and all that), the reality is it appears to be an engine manufacturing issue which is almost certainly beyond Boeing's control.
Agree it;s not really in their control, but the punches keep coming in for them
I assume the 747s are all cargo: because I thought everyone had canned them for passenger ops due to COVID?
{EDIT} Hah. I see it's a variant of the same P&W. As you say, the gifts keep on giving.
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This one is new. An issue with the 737, but not its control system.
https://archive.ph/YsTla
@asmo - is archive.ph link OK, or do you want me to remove?
https://archive.ph/YsTla
If it's not one thing it's another.The plane made an emergency landing in Portland, Ore., after losing a chunk of its fuselage, according to passengers.
@asmo - is archive.ph link OK, or do you want me to remove?
And the plane is new (november delivery).inactionman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:29 am This one is new. An issue with the 737, but not its control system.
https://archive.ph/YsTla
If it's not one thing it's another.The plane made an emergency landing in Portland, Ore., after losing a chunk of its fuselage, according to passengers.
@asmo - is archive.ph link OK, or do you want me to remove?
The constant issues at Boeing show that the balance between engineering and management/accountants is missing. They will be cutting things and taking short cuts that just adds to the problems and cost them more money which means further short cuts and cost cutting.laurent wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:22 pmAnd the plane is new (november delivery).inactionman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:29 am This one is new. An issue with the 737, but not its control system.
https://archive.ph/YsTla
If it's not one thing it's another.The plane made an emergency landing in Portland, Ore., after losing a chunk of its fuselage, according to passengers.
@asmo - is archive.ph link OK, or do you want me to remove?
- Uncle fester
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171 planes grounded.
Share Message - FAA orders grounding of 171 Boeing planes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67903655
Share Message - FAA orders grounding of 171 Boeing planes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67903655
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the only reason we see US planes grounded, is because they actually make planes, where as in Europe they are just regulated/state driven to extinction so no-one makes any
something something
something something
- fishfoodie
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- Uncle fester
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Yep, Alaskan has had a bad rep for decades.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:19 pmSame is true for Alaskan as far as I'm concerned; they've way, too many issues in their history.
I’m flying on Alaska from LA to Maui in April. Gulp.Flockwitt wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:46 pmYep, Alaskan has had a bad rep for decades.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:19 pmSame is true for Alaskan as far as I'm concerned; they've way, too many issues in their history.
BTW this exact same plane had to have the front left door removed and refitted a month ago. Boeing’s manufacturing quality is very shit these days.
Again, yep, Boeing's quality culture destruction and stock price driven management ethos has been well commented on.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:12 pmI’m flying on Alaska from LA to Maui in April. Gulp.Flockwitt wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:46 pmYep, Alaskan has had a bad rep for decades.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:19 pm
Same is true for Alaskan as far as I'm concerned; they've way, too many issues in their history.
BTW this exact same plane had to have the front left door removed and refitted a month ago. Boeing’s manufacturing quality is very shit these days.
- fishfoodie
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I couldn't understand how it was being reported that a child on the emergency row had their t-shirt ripped off by the decompression; because there should never be a child on that row !
Thanks to Juan it's now clearer. The exits on this row were decommissioned, because the airplane was delivered in a low density configuration, i.e. less than 200 passengers, so these exits weren't required, & thus blanked off.
But it does put it squarely back in Boeing's lap, allbeit with the issue potentially being moved from a systemic, to a discrete failure in their quality system.
The NTSB need to urgently find the door, & establish why it wasn't properly secured, & then if an audit of the other similarly configured aircraft doesn't reveal any similar issues, people will feel a lot safer getting on them.
Thanks to Juan it's now clearer. The exits on this row were decommissioned, because the airplane was delivered in a low density configuration, i.e. less than 200 passengers, so these exits weren't required, & thus blanked off.
But it does put it squarely back in Boeing's lap, allbeit with the issue potentially being moved from a systemic, to a discrete failure in their quality system.
The NTSB need to urgently find the door, & establish why it wasn't properly secured, & then if an audit of the other similarly configured aircraft doesn't reveal any similar issues, people will feel a lot safer getting on them.
Yay loose bolts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67919436
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67919436
- fishfoodie
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Yeah; so now every airline that's taken possession of a Boeing in the last while is asking themselves what other nuts the Boeing guys forgot to tighten !petej wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:25 pm Yay loose bolts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67919436
I'm even a bit suspicious that this case was loose nuts, because if they were just loose I'd have expected more damage & from some of the photos the ears on the body aren't even bent let alone damaged, so I'm not sure there even were nuts on this door.
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I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.
All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.
Diazepam it is then!
All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.
Diazepam it is then!
Should be really bumpy when you fly into Singapore, but I'm sure the pilot has that massive A350 with all 360 people on board in his thoughts and prayers.Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:01 pm I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.
All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.
Diazepam it is then!
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Thank feck I'm not flying into Singapore then!Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:30 pmShould be really bumpy when you fly into Singapore, but I'm sure the pilot has that massive A350 with all 360 people on board in his thoughts and prayers.Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:01 pm I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.
All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.
Diazepam it is then!
- fishfoodie
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- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 pm
I wonder if Boeing have been playing the old BNFL game, & falsifying, or just skipping checks, because they were so confident in their processes, & they never found any problems anyway ?
Part of the process is supposed to be pressurizing the cabin to 1.5 atmospheres, to check for leaks; now if as I suspect, the bolts to secure the plug door were never actually installed, it's surprising that they never found any issues, but when the aircraft went into service they had a series of alarms, for cabin pressurization no less !
But instead of grounding the airplane until they'd found a root cause of the alarms, the mercenary pricks in the airline decided to keep the aircraft in service, but restrict it's operations, & that last flight the airplane only got to 16k ft & ~ 0.5 atmosphere difference between internal & external pressure, before the door blew out, when this exact same pressure difference was passed with flying colours previously ?
I think I'd take a Carnival cruise before I'd get on a MAX
Part of the process is supposed to be pressurizing the cabin to 1.5 atmospheres, to check for leaks; now if as I suspect, the bolts to secure the plug door were never actually installed, it's surprising that they never found any issues, but when the aircraft went into service they had a series of alarms, for cabin pressurization no less !
But instead of grounding the airplane until they'd found a root cause of the alarms, the mercenary pricks in the airline decided to keep the aircraft in service, but restrict it's operations, & that last flight the airplane only got to 16k ft & ~ 0.5 atmosphere difference between internal & external pressure, before the door blew out, when this exact same pressure difference was passed with flying colours previously ?
I think I'd take a Carnival cruise before I'd get on a MAX
Boeing screwed Rolls-Royce with changing engine requirements on the dreamliner and instead of pushing back to properly re-engineer the Trent 1000 instead RR management just pushed it through to meet boeings timeline and it all went to shit.mat the expat wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:15 pm I see the Dreamliner is also experiencing big issues....
- Guy Smiley
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Never had any drama with turbulence flying into Changi. Of course, I was flying south to north so the coriolis effect wouldn't have been a factor.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:30 pmShould be really bumpy when you fly into Singapore, but I'm sure the pilot has that massive A350 with all 360 people on board in his thoughts and prayers.Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:01 pm I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.
All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.
Diazepam it is then!
- Insane_Homer
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“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”