NPR

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/18/busi ... index.html

I for one will be steering clear of them for a long time. I've read that there's still concern that the aircraft is inherently unstable due to its design.

Nah, don’t fancy it at all

Regular business traveller (in normal times). Wouldn't book onto one of these, even if the alternative requires a layover.

I'm out.

Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

Don’t trust Boeing. Lots of money changed hands to get the plane certified again.

My one uncle RIP use to say there's a reason he has legs and feet and no wings.

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

They do now. Or at least, awareness is *ahem* heightened. Whenever the world opens to international travel again, it's probably the first question I'll ask.

Gumboot wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:47 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

They do now. Or at least, awareness is *ahem* heightened. Whenever the world opens to international travel again, it's probably the first question I'll ask.

Absolutely this.

Kiwias wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:48 am

Gumboot wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:47 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

They do now. Or at least, awareness is *ahem* heightened. Whenever the world opens to international travel again, it's probably the first question I'll ask.

Absolutely this.

Yep. I never used to care. I do now.

That's FAA approval - for internal US flights only.

Will be interesting to see what EASA, CAA (UK) and CAA (Canada) do next - they've previously said that they would require Boeing to meet their own tests rather than just waving through the FAA approval for this one.

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

Yes, probably about 90% of travelers. And even those that are aware don't have the financial luxury of booking a flight depending on the type of aircraft.

Saint wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:56 am That's FAA approval - for internal US flights only.

Will be interesting to see what EASA, CAA (UK) and CAA (Canada) do next - they've previously said that they would require Boeing to meet their own tests rather than just waving through the FAA approval for this one.

Thats the test for me - in the interim I will try and avoid the Max like the plague!

Considering the testing that it will have undergone to get approval, surely this would make it the safest option to fly on now?

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:07 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

Yes, probably about 90% of travelers. And even those that are aware don't have the financial luxury of booking a flight depending on the type of aircraft.

It isn't just money really. All the flying I want to do now is short-haul from L'pool or Manchester, which comes down to Ryanair or Easyjet. My choice might well eventually come down to Max or staying at home.

Gumboot wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:47 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

They do now. Or at least, awareness is *ahem* heightened. Whenever the world opens to international travel again, it's probably the first question I'll ask.

People seem to have forgotten the DC 10 in the 70's.
I made sure I never flew on one of those.

assfly wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:58 am Considering the testing that it will have undergone to get approval, surely this would make it the safest option to fly on now?

It got approval last time

The funny thing is I know people who refused to fly any Airbus because they claimed the fly by wire system/general automation of the cockpit vs Boeing allowed underqualified pilots to be certified on the plane (apparently standards amongst some Asian airlines particularly bad).

No idea if this was true or not but there you go.

Anyway 737-800 was my favourite short haul plane both in looks and cabin experience.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:44 am Don’t trust Boeing. Lots of money changed hands to get the plane certified again.

It's possible that happened but can you imagine what happens to Boeing if another one crashes?

It will ostensibly be the end of the company.

Given that level of risk, would the Boeing board really want them flying again if there was still the merest hint of a fault still there?

If its Boeing , I Ain't going

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:27 am
Anyway 737-800 was my favourite short haul plane both in looks and cabin experience.

Jeez, it’s just a seat for 2-3 hours. Who cares about the cabin experience if it’s not long-haul?

More detail starting to come out. The biggest problem for Boeing will be that the Max now requires pilot re-training - this plane is no longer type compatible with the 737NG. As it was sold to their biggest customers on the basis that it would need no-retraining, that's a considerable cost that Boeing is going to have to bear

On top of that, Boeing have to rewire and recertify each existing plane individually. Including all the planes they;ve been manufacturing since the grounding, which have been built to the previous design. Each airframe is expected to require over 1,000 man hours of work.

There have been over 1,000 cancelled orders for the Max now, and I would expect that number to increase - primarily actually Covid based, but this will provide the legal justification

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

Weird take. The make of the craft is shown on the flight before you even buy it, and I can guarantee you I will never take a Max flight as long as I will live.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:13 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

Weird take. The make of the craft is shown on the flight before you even buy it, and I can guarantee you I will never take a Max flight as long as I will live.

Bet you a return flight to Ibiza that the plane type is buried in the small print for lots of airlines going forward.

Ryanair first and foremost

Ryanair ordered over a hundred of them in 2014

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:36 pm

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:13 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

Weird take. The make of the craft is shown on the flight before you even buy it, and I can guarantee you I will never take a Max flight as long as I will live.

Bet you a return flight to Ibiza that the plane type is buried in the small print for lots of airlines going forward.

Ryanair first and foremost

Plane type for most short haul operations tends to be fairly flexible and last minute. But Ryanair have specifically said that they won't allow passengers to quote, reschedule, or anything if they end up on a Max. But they've also requested that the name is changed to a 737-8200

Saint wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:40 pm

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:36 pm

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:13 pm

Weird take. The make of the craft is shown on the flight before you even buy it, and I can guarantee you I will never take a Max flight as long as I will live.

Bet you a return flight to Ibiza that the plane type is buried in the small print for lots of airlines going forward.

Ryanair first and foremost

Plane type for most short haul operations tends to be fairly flexible and last minute. But Ryanair have specifically said that they won't allow passengers to quote, reschedule, or anything if they end up on a Max. But they've also requested that the name is changed to a 737-8200

Fly Ryanair, get fucked over, land in a field in the middle of nowhere. Same as it ever was.

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

True. I always have. A touch of Darwinians for me. Like swimming in deep water.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

True. I always have. A touch of Darwinians for me. Like swimming in deep water.

If you rock up for a flight and it’s a 737max, can you refuse to board & get your money back?
Or make it a condition of your purchase that it’s not that airplane ?
There is no way I’d get on one right now as it does seem that Boeing have done fudge after fudge on it. I mostly fly BA which doesn’t have them I beleive , who knows what flying I will be doing in the future seeing as most corporate travel has been canned and I now perma WFH

Yeeb wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

True. I always have. A touch of Darwinians for me. Like swimming in deep water.

If you rock up for a flight and it’s a 737max, can you refuse to board & get your money back?
Or make it a condition of your purchase that it’s not that airplane ?
There is no way I’d get on one right now as it does seem that Boeing have done fudge after fudge on it. I mostly fly BA which doesn’t have them I beleive , who knows what flying I will be doing in the future seeing as most corporate travel has been canned and I now perma WFH

IAG signed a LOI for the Max, saying that they might be used for BAs Gatwick operations. No idea if that will go through now though, and it didn't make much sense anyway seeing how BAs short haul ops were exclusively Airbus anyway.

Good luck trying to refuse flying or making it a condition of purchase - airlines have LOTS of cover in their terms allowing them to change plane, cabin, seat etc.

Saint wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:27 am

Yeeb wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

True. I always have. A touch of Darwinians for me. Like swimming in deep water.

If you rock up for a flight and it’s a 737max, can you refuse to board & get your money back?
Or make it a condition of your purchase that it’s not that airplane ?
There is no way I’d get on one right now as it does seem that Boeing have done fudge after fudge on it. I mostly fly BA which doesn’t have them I beleive , who knows what flying I will be doing in the future seeing as most corporate travel has been canned and I now perma WFH

IAG signed a LOI for the Max, saying that they might be used for BAs Gatwick operations. No idea if that will go through now though, and it didn't make much sense anyway seeing how BAs short haul ops were exclusively Airbus anyway.

Good luck trying to refuse flying or making it a condition of purchase - airlines have LOTS of cover in their terms allowing them to change plane, cabin, seat etc.

That’s what I figured , in the small print that nobody ever reads.

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:36 pm

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:13 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

Weird take. The make of the craft is shown on the flight before you even buy it, and I can guarantee you I will never take a Max flight as long as I will live.

Bet you a return flight to Ibiza that the plane type is buried in the small print for lots of airlines going forward.

Ryanair first and foremost

All the more reason not to fly with them.

Yeeb wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:40 am Most people will not know or really care what aircraft they are flying on.

True. I always have. A touch of Darwinians for me. Like swimming in deep water.

If you rock up for a flight and it’s a 737max, can you refuse to board & get your money back?
Or make it a condition of your purchase that it’s not that airplane ?
There is no way I’d get on one right now as it does seem that Boeing have done fudge after fudge on it. I mostly fly BA which doesn’t have them I beleive , who knows what flying I will be doing in the future seeing as most corporate travel has been canned and I now perma WFH

No. Of course not. You have to do your homework beforehand as best you can. Just as you would booking a hotel rather than turning up to the YMCA.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:13 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:27 am
Anyway 737-800 was my favourite short haul plane both in looks and cabin experience.

Jeez, it’s just a seat for 2-3 hours. Who cares about the cabin experience if it’s not long-haul?

Agreed. I'm that rarest of people, a generally satisfied Ryanair customer. All I ask of them is that they get there on time and most of the time that's what happens, the flight is just a means to an end.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:13 pm

Yeeb wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

True. I always have. A touch of Darwinians for me. Like swimming in deep water.

If you rock up for a flight and it’s a 737max, can you refuse to board & get your money back?
Or make it a condition of your purchase that it’s not that airplane ?
There is no way I’d get on one right now as it does seem that Boeing have done fudge after fudge on it. I mostly fly BA which doesn’t have them I beleive , who knows what flying I will be doing in the future seeing as most corporate travel has been canned and I now perma WFH

No. Of course not. You have to do your homework beforehand as best you can. Just as you would booking a hotel rather than turning up to the YMCA.

Airframes change all the time at the last minute. I've rocked up at Heathrow with a booked seat on a 321 and ended up flying on a 767 an hour later

The major airlines / legacy carrier in europe do not have 737max in their fleet anyhow. One should stick to them anyways. Just avoid dodgy airlines like norwegian, turkish or Ryanair and you are fine

boere wors wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:33 pm The major airlines / legacy carrier in europe do not have 737max in their fleet anyhow. One should stick to them anyways. Just avoid dodgy airlines like norwegian, turkish or Ryanair and you are fine

Norwegian is broke. Only fly internal flights now.

boere wors wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:33 pm The major airlines / legacy carrier in europe do not have 737max in their fleet anyhow. One should stick to them anyways. Just avoid dodgy airlines like norwegian, turkish or Ryanair and you are fine

See my comments about IAG. No guarantees, especially for the next 3-4 years.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:13 pm

Yeeb wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

True. I always have. A touch of Darwinians for me. Like swimming in deep water.

If you rock up for a flight and it’s a 737max, can you refuse to board & get your money back?
Or make it a condition of your purchase that it’s not that airplane ?
There is no way I’d get on one right now as it does seem that Boeing have done fudge after fudge on it. I mostly fly BA which doesn’t have them I beleive , who knows what flying I will be doing in the future seeing as most corporate travel has been canned and I now perma WFH

No. Of course not. You have to do your homework beforehand as best you can. Just as you would booking a hotel rather than turning up to the YMCA.

Cool. I will wait until I’m on board, then say ‘I ain’t getting on no 737 Max plane, fool !’ And unless they give me some laced milk, they will have to offload me and my luggage and incur delays. This, repeated by all the other customers who won’t fly on they plane, should make them think before ordering an unproven death trap .

Yeeb wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:49 am Cool. I will wait until I’m on board, then say ‘I ain’t getting on no 737 Max plane, fool !’ And unless they give me some laced milk, they will have to offload me and my luggage and incur delays. This, repeated by all the other customers who won’t fly on they plane, should make them think before ordering an unproven death trap .