NPR

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:51 pm**

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55048438

Fucking disgraceful carry on and I hope someone with clout challenges the legitimacy of this under discrimination laws.

Coming from the same CEO who hounded Folau out of rugby due to his lack of respect for others life choices.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:54 pm**

Out of interest, what specifically is the discrimination in this instance.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm**

Against people who are reticent to take a vaccine that has been produced in a remarkably short space of time .

As the pro abortion women were shouting in Ireland two years ago “ my body my choice “

The same applies no ?

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:03 pm**

Anti-vaxers can take a driving holiday in their own country next year.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:08 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:03 pm Anti-vaxers can take a driving holiday in their own country next year.

That’s a particularly low rent comment though isn’t it ?

It’s not a matter of being anti vax. It’s about bodily autonomy and maybe people wanting to hold off for a while to make their decision .

And before someone says “ well you don’t have to fly with them “ . They are the national carrier of an island in the arse hole of the world .

And it’s more about the principle of it all. Alan Joyce claims his airline boss buddies will be rolling this out around the world also .

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:09 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:03 pm Anti-vaxers can take a driving holiday in their own country next year.

This.

Good move by Qantas imho. Who would be selfish enough to not get a safe available vaccine but then expect to fly in a plane full of other people who did get it?

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:11 pm**

Gumboot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:09 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:03 pm Anti-vaxers can take a driving holiday in their own country next year.
This.

Good move by Qantas imho. Who would be selfish enough to not get a safe available vaccine but then expect to fly in a plane full of other people who did get it?

I don’t understand this .... if they have been vaccinated then they are protected from the unvaccinated no ?

What’s the point in getting the jab if it does fuck all ?

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:12 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:03 pm Anti-vaxers can take a driving holiday in their own country next year.

By the way . They were happy to take EVERYONES money to bail them out .

But now they will be picky about who to let on board .

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/aust ... yer-2020-3

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:20 pm**

Sod personal choice here. We've all had to make sacrifices to survive this thing. Anti-vaxers can all go fuck themselves.

Just my take.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:24 pm**

Gumboot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:20 pm Sod personal choice here. We've all had to make sacrifices to survive this thing. Anti-vaxers can all go fuck themselves.

Just my take.

But if you get the vaccine and I don’t and I sit beside you on the plane you should be safe no ?

That’s why you got the vaccine .

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:25 pm**

"Management reserve the right to refuse admittance."

As long as the policy isn't based on any protected group, it's their right to refuse service.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:26 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:25 pm "Management reserve the right to refuse admittance."

As long as the policy is based on any protected group, it's their right to refuse service.

Based on your private medical choices ? I’m not sure . I think there is no precedence for this .

It goes beyond management reserve the right for me......

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:28 pm**

I’m not even saying I won’t get the vaccine by the way , I just don’t like the coercion .

And it’s the thin end of the wedge.

It will be the same for ticketmaster, a bledisloe, flights, employment .

People will say it’s voluntary but it will be mandatory in all but name .

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:29 pm**

Realistically they're just ahead of the inevitable government declaration. Does anyone seriously think that having some sort of Covid vaccination certificate won't be a prerequisite for entry to any country for the next 3-4 years?

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:38 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:24 pm
Gumboot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:20 pm Sod personal choice here. We've all had to make sacrifices to survive this thing. Anti-vaxers can all go fuck themselves.

Just my take.
But if you get the vaccine and I don’t and I sit beside you on the plane you should be safe no ?

That’s why you got the vaccine .

You have no birth right to fly.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:43 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm Against people who are reticent to take a vaccine that has been produced in a remarkably short space of time .

As the pro abortion women were shouting in Ireland two years ago “ my body my choice “

The same applies no ?

Er... no one is stopping anyone from taking the choice not to vaccinate, but choices have consequences and in this instance that's an airline not wanting you aboard.

Besides anything else it's Qantas mitigating their own risk and liability. If they knowingly allow un-vaccinated people to travel and a fatal infection gets traced back to one of them...

But if you get the vaccine and I don’t and I sit beside you on the plane you should be safe no ?

Certainly in the initial stages, there will be lots of people who haven't been able to vaccinate purely due to logistics let alone those who are too vulnerable to do so (immuno-surpressed for example), thus only allowing those who have been vaccinated to travel widely makes sense. An unvaccinated and potentially infected or carrying person moving into an area of unvaccinated people has the potential to spark more outbreaks until a significant majority of the population is vaccinated

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:26 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:25 pm "Management reserve the right to refuse admittance."

As long as the policy is based on any protected group, it's their right to refuse service.
Based on your private medical choices ? I’m not sure . I think there is no precedence for this .

It goes beyond management reserve the right for me......

Hardly unprecedented, child vaccinations are mandatory to go to public school in America. I thought you couldn't claim child benefit in Oz if your kids weren't vaccinated?

All we're talking about here is the luxury of air travel.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:49 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:43 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm Against people who are reticent to take a vaccine that has been produced in a remarkably short space of time .

As the pro abortion women were shouting in Ireland two years ago “ my body my choice “

The same applies no ?
Er... no one is stopping anyone from taking the choice not to vaccinate, but choices have consequences and in this instance that's an airline not wanting you aboard.

Besides anything else it's Qantas mitigating their own risk and liability. If they knowingly allow un-vaccinated people to travel and a fatal infection gets traced back to one of them...

But if you get the vaccine and I don’t and I sit beside you on the plane you should be safe no ?
Certainly in the initial stages, there will be lots of people who haven't been able to vaccinate purely due to logistics let alone those who are too vulnerable to do so (immuno-surpressed for example), thus only allowing those who have been vaccinated to travel widely makes sense. An unvaccinated and potentially infected or carrying person moving into an area of unvaccinated people has the potential to spark more outbreaks until a significant majority of the population is vaccinated

not wanting me onboard and being legally allowed to refuse me entry based on a personal medical choice is different though.

like i can go to the travel agent unvaccinated, go in the uber to the airport unvaccinated, grab a mcdonalds in the terminal unvaccinated and then QANTAS decide no you are not welcome based on a personal private choice.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 pm**

MoreOrLess wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:26 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:25 pm "Management reserve the right to refuse admittance."

As long as the policy is based on any protected group, it's their right to refuse service.
Based on your private medical choices ? I’m not sure . I think there is no precedence for this .

It goes beyond management reserve the right for me......
Hardly unprecedented, child vaccinations are mandatory to go to public school in America. I thought you couldn't claim child benefit in Oz if your kids weren't vaccinated?

All we're talking about here is the luxury of air travel.

what if it permeates into other facets of day to day life? would you hold the same opinion?

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:53 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 pm
MoreOrLess wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:26 pm

Based on your private medical choices ? I’m not sure . I think there is no precedence for this .

It goes beyond management reserve the right for me......
Hardly unprecedented, child vaccinations are mandatory to go to public school in America. I thought you couldn't claim child benefit in Oz if your kids weren't vaccinated?

All we're talking about here is the luxury of air travel.
what if it permeates into other facets of day to day life? would you hold the same opinion?

What exactly?

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:56 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 pm
MoreOrLess wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:26 pm

Based on your private medical choices ? I’m not sure . I think there is no precedence for this .

It goes beyond management reserve the right for me......
Hardly unprecedented, child vaccinations are mandatory to go to public school in America. I thought you couldn't claim child benefit in Oz if your kids weren't vaccinated?

All we're talking about here is the luxury of air travel.
what if it permeates into other facets of day to day life? would you hold the same opinion?

Sure, it's already permeated from elsewhere. Qantas seems an odd exception to pick. Who knows....there might be other airlines that only let non-vacinated people on.

Mind you, by that point, maybe the travel agent, uber and mcdonald's will all have banned non-vacinated people (as is their prerogative) and that plan would be scuppered too! I do hope you cope.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:59 pm**

Longshanks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:53 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 pm
MoreOrLess wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 pm

Hardly unprecedented, child vaccinations are mandatory to go to public school in America. I thought you couldn't claim child benefit in Oz if your kids weren't vaccinated?

All we're talking about here is the luxury of air travel.
what if it permeates into other facets of day to day life? would you hold the same opinion?
What exactly?

gym memberships, employment, concerts etc

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:00 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:49 pmnot wanting me onboard and being legally allowed to refuse me entry based on a personal medical choice is different though.

like i can go to the travel agent unvaccinated, go in the uber to the airport unvaccinated, grab a mcdonalds in the terminal unvaccinated and then QANTAS decide no you are not welcome based on a personal private choice.

But why would you even contemplate doing any of that when you already know Qantas's policy? Their policy may even have the added benefit of protecting all those travel agents, uber drivers and mcdonalds workers, by discouraging complete fuckwits from going to the airport in the first place.

Well done, Qantas - an excellent example of corporate responsibility at its finest.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:00 pm**

MoreOrLess wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:56 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 pm
MoreOrLess wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 pm

Hardly unprecedented, child vaccinations are mandatory to go to public school in America. I thought you couldn't claim child benefit in Oz if your kids weren't vaccinated?

All we're talking about here is the luxury of air travel.
what if it permeates into other facets of day to day life? would you hold the same opinion?
Sure, it's already permeated from elsewhere. Qantas seems an odd exception to pick. Who knows....there might be other airlines that only let non-vacinated people on.

Mind you, by that point, maybe the travel agent, uber and mcdonald's will all have banned non-vacinated people (as is their prerogative) and that plan would be scuppered too! I do hope you cope.

i don't know why the smart arsery. Im not anti vax. Im anti being coerced into it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:04 pm**

Gumboot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:00 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:49 pmnot wanting me onboard and being legally allowed to refuse me entry based on a personal medical choice is different though.

like i can go to the travel agent unvaccinated, go in the uber to the airport unvaccinated, grab a mcdonalds in the terminal unvaccinated and then QANTAS decide no you are not welcome based on a personal private choice.
But why would you even contemplate doing any of that when you already know Qantas's policy? Their policy may even have the added benefit of protecting all those travel agents, uber drivers and mcdonalds workers, by discouraging complete fuckwits from going to the airport in the first place.

Well done, Qantas - an excellent example of corporate responsibility at its finest.

i was outlining the bizarreness of it all. Thet you could partake in the society all the way up to the boarding gate but then be deemed unfit for travel based on an arbitrary rule applied to your private medical choices.

Obviously you wouldn't travel to the airport to get on a flight you knew you weren't allowed on.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:05 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:59 pm
Longshanks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:53 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 pm

what if it permeates into other facets of day to day life? would you hold the same opinion?
What exactly?
gym memberships, employment, concerts etc

When that happens you can let us all know.
I think it's a splendid plan by Qantas. You can't make a vaccination mandatory, but you can forcefully encourage.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:05 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:00 pm
MoreOrLess wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:56 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 pm

what if it permeates into other facets of day to day life? would you hold the same opinion?
Sure, it's already permeated from elsewhere. Qantas seems an odd exception to pick. Who knows....there might be other airlines that only let non-vacinated people on.

Mind you, by that point, maybe the travel agent, uber and mcdonald's will all have banned non-vacinated people (as is their prerogative) and that plan would be scuppered too! I do hope you cope.
i don't know why the smart arsery. Im not anti vax. Im anti being coerced into it.

You're not being coerced into anything. Qantas also wouldn't let you on for being hammered or for screaming abuse at the pilot on the way past.

They're not coercing you into sobriety or decency, they just have a prescribed set of conditions you have to abide by to use their service.

And I wasn't being smart arsey. Some airlines almost seen to encourage getting pissed up and shouting at people!

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:08 pm**

Meh, we're living through a bizarre time. I don't think personal choice trumps the greater good when it comes to matters of life and death. And I really don't understand people who think it does.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:08 pm**

Longshanks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:05 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:59 pm
Longshanks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:53 pm
What exactly?
gym memberships, employment, concerts etc
When that happens you can let us all know.
I think it's a splendid plan by Qantas. You can't make a vaccination mandatory, but you can forcefully encourage.

ticketmaster have already outlined plans for it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 pm**

Gumboot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:08 pm Meh, we're living through a bizarre time. I don't think personal choice trumps the greater good when it comes to matters of life and death. And I really don't understand people who think it does.

isn't that literally what abortion arguments are about? personal choice of the adult over the life or death of the foetus?

and most "developed" countries have it legalised. So we have form for legalising choice over "what's right"

**im pro choice by the way. just making the point,

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:16 pm**

It's your choice whether you have the jab
It's Qantas choice whether they allow you to fly
If you're pro choice.....

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:19 pm**

Longshanks wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:16 pm It's your choice whether you have the jab
It's Qantas choice whether they allow you to fly
If you're pro choice.....

but its private.

If i turn up pissed at the gate abusing everyone. thats overt. don't let me on . no probs.

If i choose to be unvaccinated thats my business. If the bloke beside me wants to be vaccinated thats his business.

Privately we will both be happy with our respective choices and neither of us can hurt the other if the efficacy of the vaccine is to be trusted.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:21 pm**

should people who are HIV positive have to identify themselves so we can decide whether we are happy to sit beside them or not ?

what about measles,mups,rubella, TB?

Lets make sure everyone has the whole lot done. Why stop at covid.

Less of that

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:22 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:49 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:43 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm Against people who are reticent to take a vaccine that has been produced in a remarkably short space of time .

As the pro abortion women were shouting in Ireland two years ago “ my body my choice “

The same applies no ?
Er... no one is stopping anyone from taking the choice not to vaccinate, but choices have consequences and in this instance that's an airline not wanting you aboard.

Besides anything else it's Qantas mitigating their own risk and liability. If they knowingly allow un-vaccinated people to travel and a fatal infection gets traced back to one of them...

But if you get the vaccine and I don’t and I sit beside you on the plane you should be safe no ?
Certainly in the initial stages, there will be lots of people who haven't been able to vaccinate purely due to logistics let alone those who are too vulnerable to do so (immuno-surpressed for example), thus only allowing those who have been vaccinated to travel widely makes sense. An unvaccinated and potentially infected or carrying person moving into an area of unvaccinated people has the potential to spark more outbreaks until a significant majority of the population is vaccinated
not wanting me onboard and being legally allowed to refuse me entry based on a personal medical choice is different though.

like i can go to the travel agent unvaccinated, go in the uber to the airport unvaccinated, grab a mcdonalds in the terminal unvaccinated and then QANTAS decide no you are not welcome based on a personal private choice.

Your personal choice not to be vaccinated will rub against others right not to be infected if push comes to shove and I suspect they win, though I profess to being no expert on the Aus legal system.

You can do those things, but you'd do them in the full knowledge that you can't get on the flight. If Qantas makes such a declaration others in the chain of you boarding don't really need to. I'd be astonished if a travel agent (are those really still a thing?) didn't warn you of what the requirements would be when you enquire about a trip.

Personal freedom is rarely unfettered by the law or private rules of businesses, often over much less severe matters as vaccinating in the face of a particularly virulent and deadly flu.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:23 pm**

Sorry Steve, you appear to be in this now just for the sake of arguing. I'm out.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:21 pm should people who are HIV positive have to identify themselves so we can decide whether we are happy to sit beside them or not ?

what about measles,mups,rubella, TB?

Lets make sure everyone has the whole lot done. Why stop at covid.

You're just being contrary for the sake of it now. There's something of a difference between their modes of transmission which makes your comparison ludicrous.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:28 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:22 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:49 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:43 pm

Er... no one is stopping anyone from taking the choice not to vaccinate, but choices have consequences and in this instance that's an airline not wanting you aboard.

Besides anything else it's Qantas mitigating their own risk and liability. If they knowingly allow un-vaccinated people to travel and a fatal infection gets traced back to one of them...

Certainly in the initial stages, there will be lots of people who haven't been able to vaccinate purely due to logistics let alone those who are too vulnerable to do so (immuno-surpressed for example), thus only allowing those who have been vaccinated to travel widely makes sense. An unvaccinated and potentially infected or carrying person moving into an area of unvaccinated people has the potential to spark more outbreaks until a significant majority of the population is vaccinated
not wanting me onboard and being legally allowed to refuse me entry based on a personal medical choice is different though.

like i can go to the travel agent unvaccinated, go in the uber to the airport unvaccinated, grab a mcdonalds in the terminal unvaccinated and then QANTAS decide no you are not welcome based on a personal private choice.
Your personal choice not to be vaccinated will rub against others right not to be infected

but if they are vaccinated i cant infect them surely? Thats why they got the vaccination in the first place. Its not a needle full of fresh air.

Thats my point. My personal choice should cause them no bother at all because they got the needle and are happy as larry.

its like you asking me to wear a rain jacket so you wont get wet.

once you have your umbrella you'll be fine, what im wearing doesnt matter.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:29 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:21 pm should people who are HIV positive have to identify themselves so we can decide whether we are happy to sit beside them or not ?

what about measles,mups,rubella, TB?

Lets make sure everyone has the whole lot done. Why stop at covid.

Of course you can't fly with fucking mumps

Qantas already prohibit a while bunch of infectious diseases

https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qant ... elines.pdf

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:31 pm**

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:28 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:22 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:49 pm

not wanting me onboard and being legally allowed to refuse me entry based on a personal medical choice is different though.

like i can go to the travel agent unvaccinated, go in the uber to the airport unvaccinated, grab a mcdonalds in the terminal unvaccinated and then QANTAS decide no you are not welcome based on a personal private choice.
Your personal choice not to be vaccinated will rub against others right not to be infected

but if they are vaccinated i cant infect them surely? Thats why they got the vaccination in the first place. Its not a needle full of fresh air.

Thats my point. My personal choice should cause them no bother at all because they got the needle and are happy as larry.

its like you asking me to wear a rain jacket so you wont get wet.

once you have your umbrella you'll be fine, what im wearing doesnt matter.

What about all the unvaccinated people wherever you're going? What about an the unvaccinated people they're bringing back into the country?

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:31 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 pm
Steve wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:21 pm should people who are HIV positive have to identify themselves so we can decide whether we are happy to sit beside them or not ?

what about measles,mups,rubella, TB?

Lets make sure everyone has the whole lot done. Why stop at covid.
You're just being contrary for the sake of it now. There's something of a difference between their modes of transmission which makes your comparison ludicrous.

I agree with you. I am being contrary but isn't this how it will be argued in courts etc.. as the saying goes " hard cases make bad laws" .

And just to reiterate. I probably will get this vaccine but certainly wont be an early adopter.

I just hate being forced into stuff like this by coercion. I heard some whispers and kite flying in the UK and Ireland that social welfare payments will be stopped if you don't get it.

NPR

QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly

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