State of NZ Rugby

[Not_Couch]

Our Super Rugby teams are shit (except Crusaders)

Our coach is shit

Our top players are playing overseas or retired.

Most of our young talent are not being utilised in Super Rugby properly by their franchise coaches.

Club Rugby is dying a slow death and there is no clear link established between schoolboy and clubs anymore.

NZRU are quickly going broke and willingly wants to sell their soul to international equity groups like a two dollar whore.

Are we going to go the way of Australian Rugby in the future, where we lose out top players to the likes of Japan and Europe?

[Grandpa]

yes

[OomStruisbaai]

Attendances are excellent.

[Slick]

Pro rugby is shit and run by cunts.

It's all going to fail, not just you guys.

[Ymx]

Can’t believe it’s possibly going to happen.


New Zealand Rugby to vote on proposed sale of All Blacks stake to American investors


New Zealand Rugby will face a momentous decision on the future of the All Blacks at its annual meeting on Thursday, when it debates whether to sell a stake in the commercial value of the national team to American investors.

New Zealand's 26 provincial unions will vote on a recommendation from New Zealand Rugby that it should bundle its commercial interests into a new entity and sell a 12.5 percent stake in that entity to California-based Silver Lake Partners for $360 million.

If the recommendation is carried, it will mark the first time in more than 115 years that the All Blacks — the most successful team in world rugby — do not wholly belong to New Zealanders.

[Grandpa]

Can’t believe it’s possibly going to happen.


New Zealand Rugby to vote on proposed sale of All Blacks stake to American investors


New Zealand Rugby will face a momentous decision on the future of the All Blacks at its annual meeting on Thursday, when it debates whether to sell a stake in the commercial value of the national team to American investors.

New Zealand's 26 provincial unions will vote on a recommendation from New Zealand Rugby that it should bundle its commercial interests into a new entity and sell a 12.5 percent stake in that entity to California-based Silver Lake Partners for $360 million.

If the recommendation is carried, it will mark the first time in more than 115 years that the All Blacks — the most successful team in world rugby — do not wholly belong to New Zealanders.

So the commercial arm is separate from the All Blacks themselves? Or in reality is the commercial arm.. "The All Blacks" for all intents and purposes? Because everything could come under "Commercial arm", even team selection... the coach, results etc... all adds up...

[Paddington Bear]

What always intrigues me is where these valuations of the ABs come from, with the greatest of respect.
Their home market is small and there is a culture of spreading games round the country to smallish stadiums.
When they come to the NH the home side keeps the gate money.
The RWC TV deal is pooled between the teams.
The Rugby Championship is in a poor state

So how do you turn a dramatically greater profit? PPV games?

[Ymx]

Soul has officially been sold. Come on NZRPA. Block it.

Rugby-Unions approve sale of All Blacks stake to U.S. private equity firm


WELLINGTON (Reuters) -New Zealand’s 26 provincial unions on Thursday unanimously approved the sale of a 12.5% stake in the commercial arm of New Zealand Rugby, including the All Blacks national team, to U.S. private equity firm Silver Lake.

The All Blacks are by far New Zealand’s best-known sports brand and one of the most successful teams in international sport, winning more than three-quarters of the matches they have played.

The NZ$387.5 million ($281.8 million) deal, which values NZR’s commercial rights at $2.23 billion, still needs to be approved by the New Zealand Rugby Players’ Association (NZRPA), who have expressed reservations about the deal.

“We are thrilled that our Provincial Unions ... have recognised the importance of private equity in driving commercial revenue and enabling investment to ensure rugby thrives and survives into the future,” said NZR’s outgoing chairman Brent Impey.

“Today’s vote for Silver Lake represents a transformational opportunity for our game and one we must grasp.”

NZR, who also announced an operating loss of NZ$18.7 million at Thursday’s annual general meeting, have promised grassroots rugby a cash windfall if the Silver Lake deal goes through.

The NZRPA, backed by All Blacks captain Sam Cane, had written to NZR in January saying they would block the sale, citing concerns over a loss of control and the risk of “cultural misappropriation”, according to New Zealand media.

NZRPA chief executive Rob Nichol said on Thursday the union had put negotiations with NZR on hold “for a few weeks”.

“Between us, we need to resolve what the collective (agreement) will look like beyond this year in order for the players to respond to NZR’s request for approval of the proposed Silver Lake transaction,” he said.

Impey said it was disappointing the players’ union had not consented to the deal.

“The game has to change, and Silver Lake’s capital injection would allow us to re-imagine rugby and invest in the areas of the community game that need it most,” he said.

“The players are a critical part of this journey ... We hope the NZRPA will realise the significance of the opportunity in front of us and will continue to work toward an agreement in coming weeks.”

Silver Lake, mostly invests in technology companies and has over $79 billion in assets under management. In 2019, it paid $500 million on a 10% stake in the City Football Group, which owns English Premier Club Manchester City and other teams around the world.
Manchester City were one of 12 top European clubs who announced a breakaway league last week. The proposed European Super League was shelved when many of the teams withdrew in the face of criticism from fans, politicians and federations.

[Certain Navigator]

Soul has officially been sold. Come on NZRPA. Block it.

Rugby-Unions approve sale of All Blacks stake to U.S. private equity firm


WELLINGTON (Reuters) -New Zealand’s 26 provincial unions on Thursday unanimously approved the sale of a 12.5% stake in the commercial arm of New Zealand Rugby, including the All Blacks national team, to U.S. private equity firm Silver Lake.

The All Blacks are by far New Zealand’s best-known sports brand and one of the most successful teams in international sport, winning more than three-quarters of the matches they have played.

The NZ$387.5 million ($281.8 million) deal, which values NZR’s commercial rights at $2.23 billion, still needs to be approved by the New Zealand Rugby Players’ Association (NZRPA), who have expressed reservations about the deal.

“We are thrilled that our Provincial Unions ... have recognised the importance of private equity in driving commercial revenue and enabling investment to ensure rugby thrives and survives into the future,” said NZR’s outgoing chairman Brent Impey.

“Today’s vote for Silver Lake represents a transformational opportunity for our game and one we must grasp.”

NZR, who also announced an operating loss of NZ$18.7 million at Thursday’s annual general meeting, have promised grassroots rugby a cash windfall if the Silver Lake deal goes through.

The NZRPA, backed by All Blacks captain Sam Cane, had written to NZR in January saying they would block the sale, citing concerns over a loss of control and the risk of “cultural misappropriation”, according to New Zealand media.

NZRPA chief executive Rob Nichol said on Thursday the union had put negotiations with NZR on hold “for a few weeks”.

“Between us, we need to resolve what the collective (agreement) will look like beyond this year in order for the players to respond to NZR’s request for approval of the proposed Silver Lake transaction,” he said.

Impey said it was disappointing the players’ union had not consented to the deal.

“The game has to change, and Silver Lake’s capital injection would allow us to re-imagine rugby and invest in the areas of the community game that need it most,” he said.

“The players are a critical part of this journey ... We hope the NZRPA will realise the significance of the opportunity in front of us and will continue to work toward an agreement in coming weeks.”

Silver Lake, mostly invests in technology companies and has over $79 billion in assets under management. In 2019, it paid $500 million on a 10% stake in the City Football Group, which owns English Premier Club Manchester City and other teams around the world.
Manchester City were one of 12 top European clubs who announced a breakaway league last week. The proposed European Super League was shelved when many of the teams withdrew in the face of criticism from fans, politicians and federations.

Blocking it would be the most foot-shooting action since Hitler invaded Russia. Or since McLean Stevenson left MASH.

[Certain Navigator]

What always intrigues me is where these valuations of the ABs come from, with the greatest of respect.
Their home market is small and there is a culture of spreading games round the country to smallish stadiums.
When they come to the NH the home side keeps the gate money.
The RWC TV deal is pooled between the teams.
The Rugby Championship is in a poor state

So how do you turn a dramatically greater profit? PPV games?

Yeah, based on assets in place, you're right. But the ABs potentially have a lot of real options grounded in brand recognition and 'goodwill' and I expect it's these that private equity outfits think they can exploit — to both their and NZR's advantage.

[Ymx]

Deal been scrutinised by NZRPA ...


Blocking Silver Lake deal is not about the money says Dane Coles

WELLINGTON (Reuters) - New Zealand’s rugby players are not blocking the Silver Lake deal over the money but rather have concerns about leaving the game in the “best hands”, All Blacks veteran Dane Coles said.

The proposed deal, under which U.S. firm Silver Lake would buy 12.5% of New Zealand Rugby’s commercial rights for NZ$387.5 million ($281.8 million), came a step closer on Thursday when 26 provincial rugby unions endorsed it at an annual general meeting.

It cannot go through without sign-off from New Zealand Rugby Players’ Association (NZRPA), however, and many fans in the rugby-mad country have expressed concern about the iconic All Blacks brand coming under foreign control.

“If it was about the money, we’d say yes, plain and simple – but it’s not about the money,” Coles, a player representative on the NZRPA board, told New Zealand’s Newshub in comments published on Friday.

“It’s about leaving the game in the best hands, and having the future as bright as we can, and looking after everyone, and not selling a percentage of it.

“It’s something we could look back (on) in 100 years and say, ‘Why did we make that decision?’ - or we could look back in 100 years and say ‘We’re glad we made that decision.’”

The impasse has come as players negotiate a collective bargaining agreement with New Zealand Rugby (NZR).
The NZRPA said on Thursday they needed to resolve what the collective bargaining agreement would “look like” beyond 2021.

The union said it had agreed with NZR to pause meetings to consult with stakeholders.

One provincial rugby union chief executive said players were holding the game “to ransom” and it looked like a “money grab”.

Coles hit back at the criticism.

“The Players Association has been getting a bit of stick lately, (like) we should kind of shut our mouths and take the deal,” said the hooker.

“But we wouldn’t be doing our job if we didn’t ask questions and have courageous conversations with New Zealand Rugby about what’s going on.”

[Ymx]

Soul has officially been sold. Come on NZRPA. Block it.

Rugby-Unions approve sale of All Blacks stake to U.S. private equity firm


WELLINGTON (Reuters) -New Zealand’s 26 provincial unions on Thursday unanimously approved the sale of a 12.5% stake in the commercial arm of New Zealand Rugby, including the All Blacks national team, to U.S. private equity firm Silver Lake.

The All Blacks are by far New Zealand’s best-known sports brand and one of the most successful teams in international sport, winning more than three-quarters of the matches they have played.

The NZ$387.5 million ($281.8 million) deal, which values NZR’s commercial rights at $2.23 billion, still needs to be approved by the New Zealand Rugby Players’ Association (NZRPA), who have expressed reservations about the deal.

“We are thrilled that our Provincial Unions ... have recognised the importance of private equity in driving commercial revenue and enabling investment to ensure rugby thrives and survives into the future,” said NZR’s outgoing chairman Brent Impey.

“Today’s vote for Silver Lake represents a transformational opportunity for our game and one we must grasp.”

NZR, who also announced an operating loss of NZ$18.7 million at Thursday’s annual general meeting, have promised grassroots rugby a cash windfall if the Silver Lake deal goes through.

The NZRPA, backed by All Blacks captain Sam Cane, had written to NZR in January saying they would block the sale, citing concerns over a loss of control and the risk of “cultural misappropriation”, according to New Zealand media.

NZRPA chief executive Rob Nichol said on Thursday the union had put negotiations with NZR on hold “for a few weeks”.

“Between us, we need to resolve what the collective (agreement) will look like beyond this year in order for the players to respond to NZR’s request for approval of the proposed Silver Lake transaction,” he said.

Impey said it was disappointing the players’ union had not consented to the deal.

“The game has to change, and Silver Lake’s capital injection would allow us to re-imagine rugby and invest in the areas of the community game that need it most,” he said.

“The players are a critical part of this journey ... We hope the NZRPA will realise the significance of the opportunity in front of us and will continue to work toward an agreement in coming weeks.”

Silver Lake, mostly invests in technology companies and has over $79 billion in assets under management. In 2019, it paid $500 million on a 10% stake in the City Football Group, which owns English Premier Club Manchester City and other teams around the world.
Manchester City were one of 12 top European clubs who announced a breakaway league last week. The proposed European Super League was shelved when many of the teams withdrew in the face of criticism from fans, politicians and federations.

Blocking it would be the most foot-shooting action since Hitler invaded Russia. Or since McLean Stevenson left MASH.

Sell a permanent stake of 15% of the ABs for a one off temporary cash grab is such a no-brainer??

Perhaps I’ve got it wrong, but in a decade (once the cash injection is all gone) will having 15% less profit ongoingly be helping New Zealand rugby? As Coles says, how will they feel about it in 100 years time as a good business decision.

Will it again be a no brainer to sell another 15% when low on cash.

Explain?

[laurent]

pretty much how I would feel.

PS Girondins de Bordeaux (football not rugby) was bought by a similar fund and are now in receivership as they did not get what they wanted. that fund is now buying an Italian club...

[Paddington Bear]

What always intrigues me is where these valuations of the ABs come from, with the greatest of respect.
Their home market is small and there is a culture of spreading games round the country to smallish stadiums.
When they come to the NH the home side keeps the gate money.
The RWC TV deal is pooled between the teams.
The Rugby Championship is in a poor state

So how do you turn a dramatically greater profit? PPV games?

Yeah, based on assets in place, you're right. But the ABs potentially have a lot of real options grounded in brand recognition and 'goodwill' and I expect it's these that private equity outfits think they can exploit — to both their and NZR's advantage.

This is the part I don't get - what can they exploit to make major profits?

[Hugo]

What always intrigues me is where these valuations of the ABs come from, with the greatest of respect.
Their home market is small and there is a culture of spreading games round the country to smallish stadiums.
When they come to the NH the home side keeps the gate money.
The RWC TV deal is pooled between the teams.
The Rugby Championship is in a poor state

So how do you turn a dramatically greater profit? PPV games?

Yeah, based on assets in place, you're right. But the ABs potentially have a lot of real options grounded in brand recognition and 'goodwill' and I expect it's these that private equity outfits think they can exploit — to both their and NZR's advantage.

This is the part I don't get - what can they exploit to make major profits?

The obvious one is I'm sure that they will want to negotiate a percentage of the gate everytime they play an away game. They will want some of that money that is generated at Twickenham in the autumn internationals.

Beyond that I'd hazard a guess they will try and hold more tests in the US (games versus the Wallabies and Springboks would be the obvious choices) and in other parts of the world - like the 2010 Wallabies game in Hong Kong. Maybe places in the middle east would be willing to pay big money for a one off All Blacks test???

Other than that I could see a netflix documentary in the vein of drive to survive to raise the profile of the All Blacks. Of course they will try and wring every penny out of merchandising and sponsorship deals and probably do something with TV rights or create a streaming service exclusively featuring All Black and NZ rugby content.

I agree with your perspective overall - there's just not the same scope to market rugby to the global masses as there is other sports.

[Ymx]

So they can only negotiate that with Silverlake at the helm?

[Hugo]

So they can only negotiate that with Silverlake at the helm?

I am assuming that they have been sold on the idea that Silverlake are better placed to negotiate on their behalf and will know how to wring every penny out of the All Black brand.

As a purist I'm honestly pretty disheartened that NZRU have gone into this partnership because its just another step away from what made/makes rugby rugby.

[Ymx]

Yeah it’s really sad.

Now there’s infighting.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby- ... CXXI4JSNU/

New Zealand Rugby and the Players' Association continue to butt heads over how the income from the Silver Lake deal will be reflected in player pay.

A disagreement between the two parties is the major sticking point in the deal proceeding after it was unanimously voted for by the 26 provincial unions earlier this week. The deal cannot proceed without the blessing of the NZRPA

Speaking to Newstalk ZB's Simon Barnett and Phil Gifford, NZRPA president David Kirk outlined the concerns of the association.

"The players are not asking for anything more than they currently have. It's really important to make that clear," Kirk said.

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"There's a mediation going on with New Zealand Rugby, and the players are not asking for any additional money in terms of the percentage of player-generated revenue that they take.

"There's been a long-standing agreement and understanding between New Zealand Rugby and the players about what percentage of money needs to be set aside for the players, to keep our best players in New Zealand... no one's proposing any change to that.

"What's changed is that because New Zealand Rugby is selling 12.5 per cent of their revenue, because that makes the game unprofitable, New Zealand Rugby are looking to reduce the player's share significantly in order to pay for, what we think, is a bad deal."

David Kirk (left) and Brent Impey (right) disagree. Photos / Photosport
David Kirk (left) and Brent Impey (right) disagree. Photos / Photosport
In a later interview with Barnett and Gifford, NZR chairman Brent Impey hit out at what he called Kirk's use of "selective information."

"He said to you that the players aren't wanting more money, they're wanting to retain the same percentage. The percentage is the thing that, of the new money, they get over 40 per cent of the new money, which is the very reason New Zealand Rugby becomes unprofitable. It becomes unprofitable because it is about the money. It's disingenuous really. David is using very selective information.

"The only reason NZR becomes unprofitable is because the players want to retain the same percentage and that means there's not enough money to go into the community game.

It’s so bloody short sightedness

[Ymx]

So are Silverlake buying 12.5% of the All blacks revenue.

But not the costs? The ABs are the cash generator for NZRFU and the whole cost is spread throughout all levels of rugby.

This is worse than I thought!

[Not_Couch]

Mark Robinson is a shit CEO

[FalseBayFC]

Just imagine how many scholarships for promising young Fijians and Tongans that could pay for. All Blacks will be unstoppable in 10 years time.

[Hugo]

So are Silverlake buying 12.5% of the All blacks revenue.

But not the costs? The ABs are the cash generator for NZRFU and the whole cost is spread throughout all levels of rugby.

This is worse than I thought!

I'm just curious - out of interest has there been any consultation of NZ rugby supporters? I can see the players and the NZRU and the provinical unions have been consulted but what about the fans?

On that note - what about the NZ govt?

[Ymx]

Mark Robinson is a shit CEO

Yes. A man with no credentials in this space is selling a permanent stake of the All Blacks.

[Hugo]

Just read up on a proposal that David Kirk threw out whereby NZRU sells a 5% stake in the union to Kiwi citizens and rugby supporters in order to generate some funds. Seems like an idea that would be worth exploring.

Also, wonder if there would be any Kiwi billionaires or millionaires that would be interested in buying a stake in the union that they would retain as custodians rather than for profit making purposes?

There must be so many other options worth exhausting before you take the plunge of giving up 12.5% of your money into perpetuity.

[Paddington Bear]

Yeah, based on assets in place, you're right. But the ABs potentially have a lot of real options grounded in brand recognition and 'goodwill' and I expect it's these that private equity outfits think they can exploit — to both their and NZR's advantage.

This is the part I don't get - what can they exploit to make major profits?

The obvious one is I'm sure that they will want to negotiate a percentage of the gate everytime they play an away game. They will want some of that money that is generated at Twickenham in the autumn internationals.

Beyond that I'd hazard a guess they will try and hold more tests in the US (games versus the Wallabies and Springboks would be the obvious choices) and in other parts of the world - like the 2010 Wallabies game in Hong Kong. Maybe places in the middle east would be willing to pay big money for a one off All Blacks test???

Other than that I could see a netflix documentary in the vein of drive to survive to raise the profile of the All Blacks. Of course they will try and wring every penny out of merchandising and sponsorship deals and probably do something with TV rights or create a streaming service exclusively featuring All Black and NZ rugby content.

I agree with your perspective overall - there's just not the same scope to market rugby to the global masses as there is other sports.

There's every chance the RFU tell them to piss off. HQ sells out at high prices against all the big teams.

[Ymx]

Indeed. Why would the RFU have a different view on it because NZ rugby is differently owned. It’s a nonsense argument.

[Ymx]

King McCaw weighs in

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/that-sca ... lake-saga/

[Ymx]

That scares me': All Blacks great Richie McCaw breaks silence on Silver Lake saga

14 May 2021, 5:14pm
By Sam Smith


'That scares me': All Blacks great Richie McCaw breaks silence on Silver Lake saga


(Photo by Phil Walter/Getty Images)
INTERNATIONALS
NEW ZEALAND

Former All Blacks captain Richie McCaw has broken his silence on the public feud between New Zealand Rugby [NZR] and the New Zealand Rugby Players' Association [NZRPA] over the ongoing Silver Lake saga.

The spat between the two organisations took another turn on Friday when NZRPA chief executive Rob Nichol leaked to media that Kiwi-owned investment manager company Forsyth Barr had tabled an alternative offer to rival that of Silver Lake.

The proposal, which would see NZR sell a five per cent stake in its future commercial revenues through an NZX listing, could raise as much as $650m.

By comparison, Silver Lake, the American private equity firm, would buy a 12.5 percent stake in NZR for $387.5 million, a concept NZRPA has staunchly opposed largely due to the foreign ownership of the national union.

NZR chief executive Mark Robinson slammed the NZRPA in stunning fashion shortly after the proposal was leaked to media for its "attempt to destroy" the Silver Lake deal, saying that the relationship between the organisations was "at a new low".

Speaking to the New Zealand Herald, McCaw, who served on the NZRPA for a decade, called for calm between NZR and the NZRPA, saying that both sides of the equation need to be taken into consideration.

"We've got to have a look at it and debate it," he said of the Forsyth Barr proposal.

“ Don't be afraid of it. It's not saying one's definitely better than the other, but the thing I really want to see is to look at these options, and don't just dismiss it because it wasn't yours.

"The big thing I hope is that this new proposal on the table actually gets discussed, and not just dismissed. For me, it's another option that I didn't think was possible, but it looks like it could be."

The 148-test international, who captained the All Blacks to successive World Cup titles in 2011 and 2015, added that the Silver Lake deal "scares" him because of the motivation behind it.

"I was trying to be as open-minded as possible, because we're a small country, and there's always the challenge about there being enough money in the game to compete.

“ But there's also the feeling of, 'What happens down the track? Is it the right thing? What are the risks?'. You'd like to stack it up against the other options.

NZRPA boss Rob Nichol's decision to leak confidential information to media amid the controversial Silver Lake saga has been labelled as "immature" by a provincial chairman.https://t.co/u9IfQGhf3j

— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) May 15, 2021

"Being told [by NZR] that's the only option and we take it or leave it, does make you wonder. I can see how a whole lot of money coming in would make people feel pretty excited about it.

"But when you talk with people about private equity, the feedback I get is to be very careful, that you have to understand the motivation, which is to make money off it. Straight away that scares me.

"I'm not an expert in the field, but there were business people who would say to me, 'be careful'."

Regardless of what happens, McCaw said he hopes the damage caused as a result of the spat between NZR and the NZRPA can be mended as a rift between the two organisations is detrimental to the game in New Zealand.

"One of our strengths of rugby in New Zealand is that we've had a really united way of doing things, which has actually been unique in the world," he told the Herald.

"We want to make sure we get back to that state. I really hope we work together to get there. I know the players want to get back to that. It does nobody any good to not have that partnership, which was special, working."