Another mass shooting in the US

[tabascoboy]

Another shooting, in Russia not ther US this time but a rather different reaction from the top

Russia school shooting: Children and teacher killed in Kazan

Seven children and a teacher have been killed in a shooting at a school in the Russian city of Kazan, officials say.

More than 20 others, mostly children, were reportedly wounded. A 19-year-old suspect was detained.

The attack happened 820km (510 miles) east of Moscow, in the mainly Muslim republic of Tatarstan.

Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin spoke of "great sorrow", while Tatarstan's leader Rustam Minnikhanov described the attack as a "major tragedy".

"We are deeply saddened that this has happened," he said.

Responding to the shooting, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he would review the country's gun control laws.

After the attack Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said President Putin had ordered the chief of Russia's National Guard to "work out as a matter of urgency new regulations on the types of weapon that can be in civilian circulation and that can be owned by the public".

[SaintK]

Released by the NRA for Mother's Day. How many schoolkids have died in mass shootings?

On top of the millions of other jobs moms have, NRA moms fight for our right to self-defense, while also defending themselves, their families, and communities.
We are forever grateful for these fierce women.

[Grandpa]

US police mock dementia sufferer during arrest

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56897186

Tbf she was resisting arrest so she had it coming to her.

That was distressing to watch...

[Niegs]

I read somewhere that even if a cop is fired, he can usually join another police department easily enough.

I can't remember which Last Week Tonight ep covered this, but possibly one of these two:

[sockwithaticket]

The sheer range of law enforcement agencies* with their varied jurisdictions and levels of autonomy is a nightmare for purging the forces of the few cops overtly awful enough to get fired from one position. It would require a national federal database the police unions would likely fight against tooth and nail enabled by Republicans who object to pretty much any and every somewhat reasonable proposal.

Even if a potential hiring agency wanted to rule out any bad apples a local Sheriff or Captain at a city precinct are going to have to do their own research via Google to find out if the guy asking them for a job is a maladjusted, trigger happy nutter unfit to do security in a warehouse, let alone enforce the law.


* At the most basic level you've got federal, state, county and municipal.

[Hal Jordan]

I see a Texas bankruptcy judge has agreed with the NY AG and thrown out the NRA's Chapter 11 filing on the grounds of bad faith. I hope they get litigated into richly deserved financial armageddon.

[fishfoodie]

I see a Texas bankruptcy judge has agreed with the NY AG and thrown out the NRA's Chapter 11 filing on the grounds of bad faith. I hope they get litigated into richly deserved financial armageddon.

From a Texas Judge, that is a cataclysmic judgement.

[Hal Jordan]

Thoughts and prayers.

[fishfoodie]

Thoughts and prayers.

yeaaaaaaaah ..... I don't think, the almighty is supposed to answer prayers that someone falls into a giant blender full of salt, & razor blades ...

[FalseBayFC]

The sheer range of law enforcement agencies* with their varied jurisdictions and levels of autonomy is a nightmare for purging the forces of the few cops overtly awful enough to get from one position. It would require a national federal database the police unions would likely fight against tooth and nail enabled by Republicans who object to pretty much any and every somewhat reasonable proposal.

Even if a potential hiring agency wanted to rule out any bad apples a local Sheriff or Captain at a city precinct are going to have to do their own research via Google to find out if the guy asking them for a job is a maladjusted, trigger happy nutter unfit to do security in a warehouse, let alone enforce the law.


* At the most basic level you've got federal, state, county and municipal.

Agree completely.
Sure its a problem to have cops shooting people. But of the roughly 1000 civilians shot every year, the figure has been stable for the last 10 years ie. not rising, how many were wrongful killings? There are about 700 000 full time law enforcement officers in the USA so to think that the country is over run by psycho cops is a ludicrous premise.

I think that the media is being used to whip up and perpetuate a frenzy which distracts from the real issues. The problem in America is not guns or killer cops or trans people using the wrong bathroom, its that the political class has failed consistently to solve the problems of the poor and marginalized. And the dems and republicans are equally to blame. In fact the democrats even more so because a lot of this mess lies on their patch.

The amount of time and resources and bandwidth that these sensationalist issues take up is mind boggling. The fact that a forum of rugby supporters from other countries can be so consumed by this issue versus say whats happening in Israel or Yemen or China shows just how effective this strategy is.

.

[Kawazaki]

The problem in America is not guns

Wrong

[FalseBayFC]

The problem in America is not guns

Wrong

It really isn't. Sure it adds to the problem. But real issue is uncontrolled capitalism, institutionalized racism, neglect of the underclass etc. The Sacklers for instance get to keep the proceeds of their misdeeds. They're responsible for the death or misery of millions. Gun crime is a symptom of a much larger illness which is only going to get worse. You can treat that symptom to some degree but it has now become a convenient way to distract the masses from the real issues.

[Kawazaki]

The problem in America is not guns

Wrong

It really isn't. Sure it adds to the problem. But real issue is uncontrolled capitalism, institutionalized racism, neglect of the underclass etc. The Sacklers for instance get to keep the proceeds of their misdeeds. They're responsible for the death or misery of millions. Gun crime is a symptom of a much larger illness which is only going to get worse. You can treat that symptom to some degree but it has now become a convenient way to distract the masses from the real issues.

Nope.

[FalseBayFC]

Wrong

It really isn't. Sure it adds to the problem. But real issue is uncontrolled capitalism, institutionalized racism, neglect of the underclass etc. The Sacklers for instance get to keep the proceeds of their misdeeds. They're responsible for the death or misery of millions. Gun crime is a symptom of a much larger illness which is only going to get worse. You can treat that symptom to some degree but it has now become a convenient way to distract the masses from the real issues.

Nope.

So you would say that gun crime is more serious than the opioid epidemic? Because if an alien watched the media, thats what they would think.

[Tichtheid]

Released by the NRA for Mother's Day. How many schoolkids have died in mass shootings?

On top of the millions of other jobs moms have, NRA moms fight for our right to self-defense, while also defending themselves, their families, and communities.
We are forever grateful for these fierce women.

That made me remember an incident from last year where a kid found their mother's gun in her bag and accidently shot and killed her through the driver's seat when they were in the car.

I looked it up and the first results of the search showed three other very similar incidents so far this year, one mother was shot and killed by her child at home, one was shot and killed by her toddler in Walmart and another was shot and injured in her car.

[Kawazaki]

It really isn't. Sure it adds to the problem. But real issue is uncontrolled capitalism, institutionalized racism, neglect of the underclass etc. The Sacklers for instance get to keep the proceeds of their misdeeds. They're responsible for the death or misery of millions. Gun crime is a symptom of a much larger illness which is only going to get worse. You can treat that symptom to some degree but it has now become a convenient way to distract the masses from the real issues.

Nope.

So you would say that gun crime is more serious than the opioid epidemic? Because if an alien watched the media, thats what they would think.

What about the old age scandal? Literally millions of Americans die from that every year yet nobody does a thing about it.

[Uncle fester]

Another shooting, in Russia not ther US this time but a rather different reaction from the top

Russia school shooting: Children and teacher killed in Kazan

Seven children and a teacher have been killed in a shooting at a school in the Russian city of Kazan, officials say.

More than 20 others, mostly children, were reportedly wounded. A 19-year-old suspect was detained.

The attack happened 820km (510 miles) east of Moscow, in the mainly Muslim republic of Tatarstan.

Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin spoke of "great sorrow", while Tatarstan's leader Rustam Minnikhanov described the attack as a "major tragedy".

"We are deeply saddened that this has happened," he said.

Responding to the shooting, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he would review the country's gun control laws.

After the attack Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said President Putin had ordered the chief of Russia's National Guard to "work out as a matter of urgency new regulations on the types of weapon that can be in civilian circulation and that can be owned by the public".

Muslim area so could suit Putin in a lot of ways.

[Gumboot]

So you would say that gun crime is more serious than the opioid epidemic? Because if an alien watched the media, thats what they would think.

What about the old age scandal? Literally millions of Americans die from that every year yet nobody does a thing about it.

Death is the number one killer in the world

Should be a law against it.

[Kawazaki]

What about the old age scandal? Literally millions of Americans die from that every year yet nobody does a thing about it.

Death is the number one killer in the world

Should be a law against it.

They need an Amendment to their Constitution. That'll stop the old folks dying.

[Sinkers]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/wor ... 1620903474

Toddler finds gun on nightstand shoots dad in the head, mum in the leg, smashes own face from recoil

[SaintK]

Should be a law against it.

They need an Amendment to their Constitution. That'll stop the old folks dying.

Nah, we don’t worry about old age, it doesn’t last that long.

Well I sincerely hope it lasts a little longer in my case!

[Sandstorm]

smashes own face from recoil

Clearly hasn't spent enough time on the range practising.

[tabascoboy]

smashes own face from recoil

Clearly hasn't spent enough time on the range practising.

Old enough to walk, old enough to put the damn practice hours in and get two head shots instead of one to the leg.

[Uncle fester]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/wor ... 1620903474

Toddler finds gun on nightstand shoots dad in the head, mum in the leg, smashes own face from recoil

Look at the "house". It's a fúcking shack.

[Kawazaki]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/wor ... 1620903474

Toddler finds gun on nightstand shoots dad in the head, mum in the leg, smashes own face from recoil

I wonder what we can blame that on?

a. uncontrolled capitalism
b. institutionalised racism
c. neglect of the underclass
d. guns


???

[tabascoboy]

Christ alive...

Texas to allow unlicensed carrying of handguns

Texas legislators have passed a bill which would allow most people to carry concealed handguns without a permit. Current state rules require those carrying handguns to have a licence, training and background checks. But Texas's Republican-run senate has voted to drop the restrictions.

The bill has been sent to Governor Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it into law - despite warnings from gun control groups that it could endanger the public.

Texas has some of the loosest gun laws in the US and already allows rifles to be carried in public without a licence. The new measure would allow anyone aged 21 or older to carry a handgun unless they have past criminal convictions or legal restrictions on them.

Supporters of the new rules, often known as "constitutional carry", say they would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public and abolish unnecessary limits on the constitutional right to bear arms.

"This is a simple restoration of Texans' constitutional right under the Second Amendment, a right of the people to keep and bear arms," Senator Charles Schwertner, a Republican, said on Monday, the Texas Tribune reports.

Critics say the bill puts lives at risk. Beverly Powell, a Democratic senator, raised safety concerns from some law enforcement groups that opposed the bill.

"If I sit down at a restaurant with a gentleman or a woman who has a holster on their side and a gun in it, I want to know that person is well-trained in the use of that gun," she said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57239610

[sockwithaticket]

Absolutely hatstand. With this sort of unending push for complete gun de-regulation and ever more stringent limits on abortion, birth control etc in certain states. The US really just needs to cut itself in half and say all of you that want this backwards, absurdist shite go on this side of the line and everyone who doesn't want to slide into a dystopic nightmare lives on this side.

Supporters of the new rules, often known as "constitutional carry", say they would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public and abolish unnecessary limits on the constitutional right to bear arms.

From who? Where is this epidemic of violent crime against random bystanders in public places that means everyone needs to be armed just in case? If you need to be constantly armed, who exactly have you pissed off and what did you do?

"This is a simple restoration of Texans' constitutional right under the Second Amendment, a right of the people to keep and bear arms," Senator Charles Schwertner, a Republican, said on Monday, the Texas Tribune reports.

These people always seem to omit the well regulated militia in lieu of a standing army aspect of their favourite amendment...

[fishfoodie]

It's nice to see the return to normality in the US; with a series of mass shootings reported over the weekend.

Gun manufacturers must have been worried with the drop in sales; with the only people, their customers could shot, were themselves, & close family members.

[Tichtheid]

The gun lobby and the NRA don't exist in a vacuum, they exploit what is already there.

I think we in Europe forget that the US citizens prize "freedom" above all else. That they have a pretty messed up definition of "freedom" is another matter.

I don't think Europeans can get to any understanding of where the US stands wrt guns until we stop trying to judge by our own values. I am 100% against guns held by private citizens for any reason other than, say, practice for Olympic events or by farmers.

OTOH, US citizens don't think like that and they have been brought up to reject central legislation, and that has been really pushed and exploited by the NRA in particular, to the extent that private corporations now dictate legislation and decide for Americans how they should be governed, whilst making a mint, but hey, that's okay because it's not Government that is doing it.

[Hugo]

Gun manufacturers made an absolute mint in 2020 with first the pandemic and the concerns relating to food shortages and then the civil unrest over George Floyd's death. Gun and ammo sales had already hit record highs BEFORE the riots in the summer.

They have been able to plow some of those record profits into lobbying for ever more relaxed gun laws in response to the civil unrest.

Peak opportunism, no finer example of the saying "don't let a crisis go to waste".

[Niegs]

Absolutely hatstand. With this sort of unending push for complete gun de-regulation and ever more stringent limits on abortion, birth control etc in certain states. The US really just needs to cut itself in half and say all of you that want this backwards, absurdist shite go on this side of the line and everyone who doesn't want to slide into a dystopic nightmare lives on this side.

[

That’d be interesting... would Texas oil be crucial to a new red state confederacy? Seems that many of them less well off than blue states as it is.

[Grandpa]

The gun lobby and the NRA don't exist in a vacuum, they exploit what is already there.

I think we in Europe forget that the US citizens prize "freedom" above all else. That they have a pretty messed up definition of "freedom" is another matter.

I don't think Europeans can get to any understanding of where the US stands wrt guns until we stop trying to judge by our own values. I am 100% against guns held by private citizens for any reason other than, say, practice for Olympic events or by farmers.

OTOH, US citizens don't think like that and they have been brought up to reject central legislation, and that has been really pushed and exploited by the NRA in particular, to the extent that private corporations now dictate legislation and decide for Americans how they should be governed, whilst making a mint, but hey, that's okay because it's not Government that is doing it.

The right-wing in the US reminds me of the Taliban. They claim similar. They profess freedom and following God/Bible etc, but in the end it's about control, not freedom. Brainwashed from birth.

[Sandstorm]

The gun lobby and the NRA don't exist in a vacuum, they exploit what is already there.

I think we in Europe forget that the US citizens prize "freedom" above all else. That they have a pretty messed up definition of "freedom" is another matter.

I don't think Europeans can get to any understanding of where the US stands wrt guns until we stop trying to judge by our own values. I am 100% against guns held by private citizens for any reason other than, say, practice for Olympic events or by farmers.

OTOH, US citizens don't think like that and they have been brought up to reject central legislation, and that has been really pushed and exploited by the NRA in particular, to the extent that private corporations now dictate legislation and decide for Americans how they should be governed, whilst making a mint, but hey, that's okay because it's not Government that is doing it.

The right-wing in the US reminds me of the Taliban. They claim similar. They profess freedom and following God/Bible etc, but in the end it's about control, not freedom. Brainwashed from birth.

Boil it down even further and it’s just about money. Taliban and Americans.

[Rinkals]

Absolutely hatstand. With this sort of unending push for complete gun de-regulation and ever more stringent limits on abortion, birth control etc in certain states. The US really just needs to cut itself in half and say all of you that want this backwards, absurdist shite go on this side of the line and everyone who doesn't want to slide into a dystopic nightmare lives on this side.

[

That’d be interesting... would Texas oil be crucial to a new red state confederacy? Seems that many of them less well off than blue states as it is.

I fear that, should any such schism be enacted, it wouldn't be long before the Red States were waging war against the Blue States.

Trump has certainly presided over a weakening of the US that Putin and Kim wouldn't have expected even in their wildest dreams prior to his election as President.

So much for Making America Great Again.

[Hal Jordan]

Gun manufacturers made an absolute mint in 2020 with first the pandemic and the concerns relating to food shortages and then the civil unrest over George Floyd's death. Gun and ammo sales had already hit record highs BEFORE the riots in the summer.

They have been able to plow some of those record profits into lobbying for ever more relaxed gun laws in response to the civil unrest.

Peak opportunism, no finer example of the saying "don't let a crisis go to waste".

I would also imagine that the ALEC types have precedent legislation drafted and ready to give to friendly State Senates, similar to the vote suppression stuff.

[Uncle fester]

Absolutely hatstand. With this sort of unending push for complete gun de-regulation and ever more stringent limits on abortion, birth control etc in certain states. The US really just needs to cut itself in half and say all of you that want this backwards, absurdist shite go on this side of the line and everyone who doesn't want to slide into a dystopic nightmare lives on this side.

[

That’d be interesting... would Texas oil be crucial to a new red state confederacy? Seems that many of them less well off than blue states as it is.

I fear that, should any such schism be enacted, it wouldn't be long before the Red States were waging war against the Blue States.

Trump has certainly presided over a weakening of the US that Putin and Kim wouldn't have expected even in their wildest dreams prior to his election as President.

So much for Making America Great Again.

This isn't all down to Trump. It's been a long time coming. Since Gringrich and his polarisation/poisoning of the politics at least.

[notfatcat]

Anyone know if there's any correlation between gun murder rates, gun ownership numbers and stringency of gun laws across individual states? Is there evidence that this would likely increase gun deaths?

[Grandpa]

Anyone know if there's any correlation between gun murder rates, gun ownership numbers and stringency of gun laws across individual states? Is there evidence that this would likely increase gun deaths?

A partial answer?

Results. Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%.

Conclusions. We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/

[Grandpa]

Anyone know if there's any correlation between gun murder rates, gun ownership numbers and stringency of gun laws across individual states? Is there evidence that this would likely increase gun deaths?

and as regards policies...

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-polic ... icies.html

[tabascoboy]

Thing is as I posted a report a while ago a very significant number of gun deaths are from legally owned weapons, whether deliberate or accidental discharges. Not all of course by a long stretch but each and every death means one or more victims (quite probably innocent of any crime) and grieving families. I find it hard to understand where there is so much apparent unwillingness to even slightly reduce these mostly avoidable tragedies even if many, many more are as a result of illegal activity.

In 2018, accidental gun deaths accounted for 1% (458) of total gun-related deaths (39,740) in the United States.

Thus far in 2020, there have been unintentional shootings by over 220 children. This has resulted in 92 deaths and 135 injuries.

In the United States, over 4.6 million American children live in homes with at least 1 unloaded, unlocked gun, setting the scene for possible tragedy if firearms are not locked and stored properly.

The majority of people killed in firearm accidents are under age 24, and most of these young people are being shot by someone else, usually someone their own age. The shooter is typically a friend or family member, often an older brother. By contrast, older adults are at a far lower risk of accidental firearm death, and most often are shooting themselves.

As gun sales in the US spiked by 70% in March 2020 when compared to March 2019, accidental shooting deaths by minors spiked by 43%.

https://www.aftermath.com/content/accid ... tatistics/

And as for promoting gun ownership for self-defence reasons, it's well known there are parts of the UK where knife crime and stabbings are a serious problem. Is the answer then to allow anyone and everyone to carry a knife in public for self defence and deterrence?